EA response is typical

Jan 19, 2016
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KingsGambit said:
Don't buy a game with the name EA, Ubisoft, Square Enix or Activision on the cover. Don't buy any game made by Rockstar or WB Interactive. They are no longer games, but vehicles for microtransactions, season passes and virtual currencies. These folks don't make anything worth playing anymore. These Gam...."Entertainment Products" are compromised in order to make room for taking more of your money (See ME3 From Ashes or this very post for a prime example).
I've been saying this to anyone who will listen for about three years. Most people that I explain it all to IRL just shrug and say, "It's capitalism." and carry on buying this shit. People will still tend to buy games in franchises they like, despite knowing that doing so is actually harmful to the medium, because they want the dopamine hit and the consequences be damned. My WoW guildies have been pestering me to play Destiny with them and I went on a bit of a rant on Discord about Activision's business practices; only one other person agreed with me. I hate to say it, but it feels like a losing battle.
 

Ironman126

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Zontar said:
Gergar12 said:
And whatever you do. DON'T preorder.
Here's something I'm still trying to figure out: why do people still pre-order shit in 2017? We're well past the point there's a chance the game in question will be sold out the day of release, and I've yet to see a pro-order bonus that was actually worth it.
I would say it's a matter of conditioning. In behavioral economics, people are graded on their patience, how willing they are to defer gratification for increased incentives. Since video games are about as instant gratification as any medium can get, I imagine it's just that players are conditioned to "need" access to games from minute one, hence the pre-loading options on PC.

I'd be interested to know how many would actually get the chance to play the game between the time it goes live and the time their download finishes/they make i to the store to get it. For my own part, I've only ever managed that once, with Borderlands 2, and it was only because some friends and I bought the 4-pack they offered and we made an night of it.
 

MonsterCrit

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Adam Jensen said:
So much for the idea that microtransactions won't impact game design. It was obvious from the start where that story was headed. And if gamers were half as intelligent as they think they are they would have seen it coming and they would have said no to games with microtransactions. Is it really that hard to say no to a video game, especially after what happened with every single previous anti-consumer practice that these people came up with? What did people think was gonna happen? That microtransactions would magically be ethical? How fuckin' dumb would one have to be to think that?
Gamers have been saying no to the games that have MTX they don't like. I said no to Battlefront and Shadow of War. There's no ethics involved here even. if you're selling a product you are free to sell it however you like. That's sellers right. Buyers have the right to refuse purchase. So people will in theory only ever buy something for a price that is less than or equal to the perceived value of the product.

Translation, you're not going to spend $20 on something that's only worth $5 to you. HHeck that's why smart gamers never buy games on release. They wait at least 6 months. Buut keep in mind, saying 'gamers' is like saying, Americans, Men, Athlete, or Homosexual, in that you're not brefuring to a homogenous hive mind; once gaming moved out of the niche market gamers have become far more heterogenous. The preferences, and beliefs as to what constitutes a fair asking price is. So yeah, those that consider it acceptable will buy, those that won't will not. Those that don't buy though tend to get salty though much like a vegan at an all you can eat steak buffet. Nothing pisses gamer off than other people enjoying something they don't have.

Long story short. It doesn'tr affect me. What I do not spend on these games I will spend on other games and the heterogenety of the gamuing public is such that there will always be developers to cater to the non-MTX niche.
 

RaikuFA

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Zontar said:
Gergar12 said:
And whatever you do. DON'T preorder.
Here's something I'm still trying to figure out: why do people still pre-order shit in 2017? We're well past the point there's a chance the game in question will be sold out the day of release, and I've yet to see a pro-order bonus that was actually worth it.
I mainly preorder niche RPG's. Those do become a headache to find if you don't preorder
 

kasperbbs

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Years ago i used to cringe at people who swore to never buy a game from EA for seemingly minor issues, now i'm joining them. Not only are their games pretty bad these days (andromeda, need for speed, etc..), but they almost managed to turn them into mobile shovelware. All that is missing is unskippable ads popping up every few minutes.
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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immortalfrieza said:
The above snipped retort was brought to you by someone who does not want to admit their faults so that they make a heavily ironic pot-calling-the-kettle-black statement in an effort to show why you apparently have to give money to the wrong people, but wait no that doesn't make any sense because I don't like them and I don't want to waste my money.

I did warn you I'd do that.
 

immortalfrieza

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FalloutJack said:
immortalfrieza said:
The above snipped retort was brought to you by someone who does not want to admit their faults so that they make a heavily ironic pot-calling-the-kettle-black statement in an effort to show why you apparently have to give money to the wrong people, but wait no that doesn't make any sense because I don't like them and I don't want to waste my money.

I did warn you I'd do that.
Pal, all I did was give you a chance to be reasonable and you blew it, this nothing more but I stating the facts and you not wanting to admit they are true because you would rather live in a delusion than reality, so you ignore everything I say in order to keep those delusions intact. Go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and go LALALALALALALA as the evidence piles up around you, all I've said is still 100% true.

See? I can do it too! Accept what I said or don't it doesn't matter because it's still true regardless.
 

Mcgeezaks

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Zontar said:
why do people still pre-order shit in 2017?
If it's a game I'm looking forward to I usually pre-order a few days before release so I can play it when it hits 12am.
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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immortalfrieza said:
Dude, you were already being unreasonable and borderline EA mouthpiece.

Let me repeat more carefully: You don't buy from people you don't like. It doesn't matter if you think it has no effect. It's your dollar, and if you don't WANT to show support, then denying them your dollar is how you do it. Everything else is irrelevent. You are a consumer, and consumers show their preferences through buying or not buying. That's it. This company literally does not care about anything about you, except your money. So, denying them money is just about the only way to do things.

I don't want what you're selling, period. No sale.
 
Apr 5, 2008
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Bilious Green said:
My WoW guildies have been pestering me to play Destiny with them and I went on a bit of a rant on Discord about Activision's business practices; only one other person agreed with me. I hate to say it, but it feels like a losing battle.
The ironic thing about Destiny 2 is actually not about said practices (altho the game does include multiple, differently priced editions and a virtual currency to buy loot crates with). It's simply not a good game. I bought the middle, blody expensive edition with the season pass, and I wish I could get a refund. Being a PC gamer, I've not been able to play a Bungie game before, and hearing only good things about Halo over the years (consolised a game series as it may be), it piqued my interest enough.

Firstly, there's no public chat channels. It's the deadest, quietest online multiplayer game ever. You cannot talk to anyone. NO asking for help or advice, no chatting, no LFG, nothing at all. Secondly, "dungeons" or Strikes can only be played by joining and random queue which matches you with random people for a random dungeon. You cannot choose the activity you do, nor with whom you do it. Thirdly, there's no RP. Every single character of a given (sub)class is identical. There are no builds per se, nothing that changes between players, excepting gear. Fourthly, and to me the worst of all, is the mechanically poor combat.

They've locked snipers and shotties away as "Power Weapons" which have miniscule ammo pools. As such, if you enjoy a close up, mobile shotgun playstyle (like me), or a long range cover one, you get to do it for basically 15 seconds, and you're done. The rest of the time you have variations of full/semi auto and burst rifles that are essentially identical. All enemies scale relative to you so combat is precisely the same at level 1 as it is at lvl 20. Same number of bullets, same enemy types, same same. And for class abilities, they're all on horrifically long cooldowns. The "Super", your chosen subclass ability takes maybe 5 minutes to charge, with some abilities helping a little. As such, in even a long Strike, you might get to use it twice, maybe. You get 10seconds every 5 minutes where you get to play as your chosen class and have fun, and then you're done and it's back to the shitty auto rifles, no different from any other player.

All of these are huge detriments to the game and every one was a conscious design choice. Whatever fools designed these systems explicitly decided this would be how they wanted it to work. A boring, monotonous game devoid of any online interaction with other players wherein you get to enjoy very rare 10 second bursts of fun. I was desperate for the campaign to be over towards the end and I have no idea what it was about. I have deep buyer's remorse over this one and have already gone back to other games.

It's a bad RPG, it's a bad MMO, it's a bad lootgrind/skinnerbox and it's a mediocre shooter. Borderlands 2 is better than it in every way that matters.
 

Felstaff

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I think EA shot themselves in the foot with their Reddit response. Not that their own feet weren't shot to pieces already. Their language is so business-corporate-jargon. It sounds straight from the mouth of the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert.
EA said:
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
This starts off okay and genuine. Perhaps "the intent" is a little sinister sounding and impersonal. Why not just say "we want"?
EA said:
As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from the Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via gameplay.
Here's where it goes downhill, fast. This is middle-management boardroom bullshit. "average per-player credit earn rates", "initial values based upon data". It's even worse than the crap PowerPoints in the Sony Pictures leak. Why not just say "cost-point analysis data depreciates the onboarding experience of our average net-worth consumers". Oh, wait, they basically did.
EA said:
We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on Reddit, our forums and across numerous social media outlets. Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.
Given the above, this can't be interpreted as anything other than lip-service.
They really need a writer, or just someone who is good with using words that real people use, to form their community responses. This was corporate assholism at its finest.

I'm no social-media-damage-limitation expert, but I think I could have written this far more positively than any EA suit that fires off a response as though he needs to add a cover sheet to his TPS report.

what they should have written said:
We want our players to feel like they've really accomplished something when they unlock a hero. We wanted it to be a challenge that makes you proud of achieving.
To do this we took everything we learned from the open beta. We've made adjustments to reward levels and average credits earned by players. We want to make sure that unlocking a hero is not just challenging and rewarding, but also reasonably achievable through playing the game.
We do appreciate your feedback. Your passion, clearly, is very strong, and your voices here on {$social_media_platform} have been heard. We want you to help us shape the game to make it both challenging but fair. We might not be right first time, but thanks to your community, we'll continue to make changes and adjustments until we've reached a balance where the game is rewarding, challenging, and fair in equal measures. Thank you, and please continue with all your fine suggestions and comments.

~~Real Person Name, EA Community Manager
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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Felstaff said:
I think EA shot themselves in the foot with their Reddit response. Not that their own feet weren't shot to pieces already. Their language is so business-corporate-jargon. It sounds straight from the mouth of the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert.
EA said:
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
This starts off okay and genuine. Perhaps "the intent" is a little sinister sounding and impersonal. Why not just say "we want"?
EA said:
As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from the Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via gameplay.
Here's where it goes downhill, fast. This is middle-management boardroom bullshit. "average per-player credit earn rates", "initial values based upon data". It's even worse than the crap PowerPoints in the Sony Pictures leak. Why not just say "cost-point analysis data depreciates the onboarding experience of our average net-worth consumers". Oh, wait, they basically did.
EA said:
We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on Reddit, our forums and across numerous social media outlets. Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.
Given the above, this can't be interpreted as anything other than lip-service.
They really need a writer, or just someone who is good with using words that real people use, to form their community responses. This was corporate assholism at its finest.

I'm no social-media-damage-limitation expert, but I think I could have written this far more positively than any EA suit that fires off a response as though he needs to add a cover sheet to his TPS report.

what they should have written said:
We want our players to feel like they've really accomplished something when they unlock a hero. We wanted it to be a challenge that makes you proud of achieving.
To do this we took everything we learned from the open beta. We've made adjustments to reward levels and average credits earned by players. We want to make sure that unlocking a hero is not just challenging and rewarding, but also reasonably achievable through playing the game.
We do appreciate your feedback. Your passion, clearly, is very strong, and your voices here on {$social_media_platform} have been heard. We want you to help us shape the game to make it both challenging but fair. We might not be right first time, but thanks to your community, we'll continue to make changes and adjustments until we've reached a balance where the game is rewarding, challenging, and fair in equal measures. Thank you, and please continue with all your fine suggestions and comments.

~~Real Person Name, EA Community Manager
what they should have written said:
As of today
~Real Person Name, EA BF2 Project Manager
and
~Real Person Name, EA Marketing Manager
have lost their jobs. We are postponing BF2 realease for another 6 months to remove
illicit, predatory monetization practices from the game, run the resulting product through QA and re-evaluate actual upfront unit price which it has to be sold for.
 

Warhound

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bjj hero said:
Why is all of this on EA? Titanfall2 was mostly praised for its progression system and that was published by EA.

How much of the blame lands on Dice's shoulders? Knowing there would be lootbox/microtransactions they went for no custom charecter stuff? What are we left to buy but charecters when there are no cosmetics to get?

You cannot tell me war paint/battle damage/markings/tinted visors wouldnt be cool on storm troopers. Anyone remember Republic Commando? Equally, who wouldnt want to pimp their Tie-Fighter? Think of the rims...
I don't know if anyone answered you yet on page 2 or 3 but:

Titanfall 2 was praised becaue of their decisions because EA had no say in them. EA was only the publisher, the developer (at the time) was completely independent. It was only after Titanfall 2 shipped did they decide to sell their company and EA bought them. Were as Dice has been completely owned and operated by EA for a long time no, so EA is directly responsible for all decisions made there, they are literally the same company.

And there is some custom character stuff in there for vehicles and the like, they showed off custom skins for X-wings at one point IIRC. But much 'better' to lock actually character progression behind lootboxes because they know people (read:Idiots) will still pay for it.
 

Warhound

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sgy0003 said:
I feel like we are at the point where it's either season pass or microtransaction/lootboxes. These indistries arr forcing us to pick the poison.

Why is it that Overwatch the only game that got lootbox system right? Pure cosmetics, do not affect gameplay, and completely unnecessary to enjoy the game.

EA may have lowered the pirce on the heroes, BUT that still doesn't change the fact that they are sell locked AND lootboxes still plagues the game
Overwatch didn't get lootboxes right. They knew their game was going to be insanely popular either way, so they just put them in there because they knew they could, and it would make it ok for other games down the line because they could point and be like "Seee they were popular there, so its fiiine!"

See: Destiny 2.

Get the plebs who play their games used to something with an innocuous version (And for those with addictions get em hooked), then you can start really milking them with the predatory version.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Felstaff said:
EA said:
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
This starts off okay and genuine.
No, it doesn't. That's not their intent at all. If that was their intent, they would lock characters behind gameplay achievements exclusively. Their intent is obviously to incentivize people to pay with real money for unlocks. And they're not satisfied with you paying once, they want you to continue paying by giving you nothing more than a chance of getting what you want.
 

Xprimentyl

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Adam Jensen said:
Felstaff said:
EA said:
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
This starts off okay and genuine.
No, it doesn't. That's not their intent at all. If that was their intent, they would lock characters behind gameplay achievements exclusively. Their intent is obviously to incentivize people to pay with real money for unlocks. And they're not satisfied with you paying once, they want you to continue paying by giving you nothing more than a chance of getting what you want.
Exactly. ?Pride and accomplishment? my father?s infected mons pubis (thanks to Jim Sterling for adding that little nugget to my daily lexicon.) If that was their true intent, they wouldn?t have put such lofty ?rewards? readily and, most importantly, more easily available for cash. And who would take any kind of actual pride and accomplishment in grinding for +40 hours per character when every other player in the lobby will have long had the same fucking characters after spending a whole 40 seconds dropping a credit card number? EA?s explanation is straight bullshit, irredeemable and inexcusable.

They should have said: ?Grind for ?em or buy ?em; our game, your choice. Deal with it because fuck you.? I respect honestly before all else.
 

FakeSympathy

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Update: EA held an AMA on Reddit today. They warned the user AMA will be over if things got hostile. It went about as peaceful as middle east conflict.

The questions were genuine, but the response EA gave sparked so many angered comments. One answer to a specific question got so many hate, EA actually deleted the question.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7d4qft/star_wars_battlefront_ii_dice_developer_ama/?utm_term=7ebee602-01bc-4622-8281-006a65c39b2d&utm_medium=search&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=StarWarsBattlefront&utm_content=1

TL;DR: Yeah we will fix everything wrong with this game eventually except for loot boxes, microtransactions, and anything that makes us money.
 

fix-the-spade

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bjj hero said:
Why is all of this on EA? Titanfall2 was mostly praised for its progression system and that was published by EA.
Respawn both owned the Titanfall IP and maintained creative control as an independant studio, so EA got very little say in it's monetisation beyond getting their investment back.

EA has systematically put lootboxes into all of it's major franchises, Mass Effect in 2012, Battlefield in 2013, all of the EA sports games in the years between then and now. Dice is a subsidiary of EA, they do as they are told, the change in progression from Battlefield 2/2142 (no unlocks pruchasable), to Bad Company 2/BF3 ('shortcut packs' available, basic class items like medpacks suddenly need unlocking), BF4/Hardline/One (lootboxes! unlock system now semi-randomised and takes longer) to now with Battlefront 2 (entirely randomised through lootboxes) has been rather depressing.

On the plus side it's saving me money, haven't bought a single EA title since Battlefield 4 and Crysis 3. Given that I used to spend ?400-ish on each Battlefield and the expansions like clockwork that's pushing ?400 in games I didn't buy and counting.
 

Zhukov

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Apparently I'm pretty hard to piss of with this sort of thing because I'd probably still have bought it if the controls and shooting hadn't felt like such crap.
 

katastrophic88

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Felstaff said:
I think EA shot themselves in the foot with their Reddit response. Not that their own feet weren't shot to pieces already. Their language is so business-corporate-jargon. It sounds straight from the mouth of the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert.
EA said:
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
This starts off okay and genuine. Perhaps "the intent" is a little sinister sounding and impersonal. Why not just say "we want"?
EA said:
As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from the Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via gameplay.
Here's where it goes downhill, fast. This is middle-management boardroom bullshit. "average per-player credit earn rates", "initial values based upon data". It's even worse than the crap PowerPoints in the Sony Pictures leak. Why not just say "cost-point analysis data depreciates the onboarding experience of our average net-worth consumers". Oh, wait, they basically did.
EA said:
We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on Reddit, our forums and across numerous social media outlets. Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.
Given the above, this can't be interpreted as anything other than lip-service.
They really need a writer, or just someone who is good with using words that real people use, to form their community responses. This was corporate assholism at its finest.

I'm no social-media-damage-limitation expert, but I think I could have written this far more positively than any EA suit that fires off a response as though he needs to add a cover sheet to his TPS report.

what they should have written said:
We want our players to feel like they've really accomplished something when they unlock a hero. We wanted it to be a challenge that makes you proud of achieving.
To do this we took everything we learned from the open beta. We've made adjustments to reward levels and average credits earned by players. We want to make sure that unlocking a hero is not just challenging and rewarding, but also reasonably achievable through playing the game.
We do appreciate your feedback. Your passion, clearly, is very strong, and your voices here on {$social_media_platform} have been heard. We want you to help us shape the game to make it both challenging but fair. We might not be right first time, but thanks to your community, we'll continue to make changes and adjustments until we've reached a balance where the game is rewarding, challenging, and fair in equal measures. Thank you, and please continue with all your fine suggestions and comments.

~~Real Person Name, EA Community Manager

Love this in-depth analysis. Would have loved to be a fly in the wall in EA's PR/Damage control department when Reddit started lighting up like a friggn' Christmas Tree.