EA: They're not loot boxes, they're "surprise mechanics," and they're "quite ethical"

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/ea-loot-boxes

No, this isn't an Onion piece.

"We do agree with the UK gambling commission, the Australian gambling commission, and many other gambling commissions that they aren't gambling, and we also disagree that there's evidence that shows it leads to gambling. Instead we think it's like many other products that people enjoy in a healthy way, and like the element of surprise."

Edit: The enter key continues to be my greatest enemy

 

[CaitSeith]

The AAA industry has made such an habit of rebranding their worst practices (macro-transactions anyone?) that it isn't funny anymore.

Spoiler

They also compare them to Kinder Eggs. Just check the video in that tweet...

[tweet t="https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1141386232347410432"]

PS: BTW, Kinder Eggs are banned in America.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Well this is going to be a meme

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

"I'm not a drug dealer; I'm a freelance pharmaceutical retailer."

 

[meiam]

As much as I dislike loot box and what they do to game, I really hope that government don't start making rule about this stuff. Politician aren't gamer and they don't consider gamer a key demographic, they'll probably end up making draconian rule that could encompass way more stuff than they should. Imagine if the law is worded in a way that diablo/bordeland style game with random loot become illegal.

 

[Squilookle]

As much as I dislike loot box and what they do to game, I really hope that government don't start making rule about this stuff. Politician aren't gamer and they don't consider gamer a key demographic, they'll probably end up making draconian rule that could encompass way more stuff than they should. Imagine if the law is worded in a way that diablo/bordeland style game with random loot become illegal.

Nope. I'm with the law on this one. Games are not exempt from breaking existing laws, certainly not just because it's in a new medium. If games are using gambling to get players (including children) hooked on spending money, then that's an utter scum move to do no matter what they rebrand it as, and like Jim Sterling says- if the gaming industry doesn't self regulate itself, it will be governments that have to come down on them for doing this. I hope they come down hard.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I really hope that government don't start making rule about this stuff.

If the industry could self-regulate, the government wouldn't have to step in. But the industry has demonstrated that it will just keep pushing and pushing against the boundaries.

 

[Meximagician]

Reminds me of that one very tasteless joke:

"It's not r--e[footnote=1]normally I wouldn't censor myself, but I don't know/remember how strict the mods are about that word[/footnote], it's 'surprise sex'! And guess what? We're throwing you a 'surprise' party!"

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

These PR people are like evil geniuses or something. What scares me is that they are talking to old men as most politcians are, which is a demographic which is highly unlikely to understand videogames, they might believe the lies that seem obvious to us.

 

[Kwak]

These PR people are like evil geniuses or something. What scares me is that they are talking to old men as most politcians are, which is a demographic which is highly unlikely to understand videogames, they might believe the lies that seem obvious to us.

Which part is genius? They're just evil idiots.

 

[Lufia Erim]

How are kids even getting credit cards to buy lootboxes? Oh yeah parents. Shitty parents.

I hate lootboxes probably more than anyone on this website, but the gambling aspect isn't the problem.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Got a kick out of this comment [https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/c2jp75/ea_theyre_not_loot_boxes_theyre_surprise/erkmixd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ios_share_flow_optimization&utm_term=enabled].

I'm not robbing a bank. I'm acquiring currency through surprise mechanics and it's quite ethical.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

How are kids even getting credit cards to buy lootboxes? Oh yeah parents. Shitty parents.

I hate lootboxes probably more than anyone on this website, but the gambling aspect isn't the problem.

More specifically, shit society that makes enabling bad parenting too common. Also I miss simpler times, before ?smart? everything and people actually had to think for themselves to get by.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Had a minor giggle at their strange quizzical consistency...

...neither Pence nor his colleague, director of marketing Matthew Weissinger, could answer more direct questions about how many users were playing the game an unhealthy amount.

?We think it?s difficult to have a categorical understanding of what that is given it varies from time to time and person to person,? Pence said.

Weissinger declined to reveal the game?s average revenue per player, arguing that it was a trade secret, but then appeared to confuse himself over other data points. At one point, when committee chair Damian Collins asked how Epic defined frequent players, Weissinger said they were ?someone who?s played within the last two weeks, or 30 days?.

When Collins then asked how much time frequent players spent playing Fortnite, Weissinger said that it was ?difficult? to define a frequent player, leaving the MP baffled.

Collins declared his disbelief at Epic?s claims of ignorance. ?This is a game which makes money out of people playing it,? he said, ?and this sort of basic information is something that will be gathered and analysed all the time, so I don?t believe that you don?t know it. For me, it arouses the suspicion that this is not something we can discuss. Of course it will vary, but I?m sure you have an idea of what the answer to these questions are.?

The MP looked more surprised when Pence responded by taking issue with his choice of words. Pence said: ?I don?t think it?s accurate to define Epic as making money from people playing the game.? ?You?re not a charity,? responded Collins.

The Labour MP Ian Lucas pressed Pence on why the company did not collect dates of birth from its users.

?You don?t think it?s necessary to abide by data regulations by establishing the age of the people who play your game?? Lucas asked.

?We don?t,? said Pence. Later in the hearing, Pence denied giving that response, prompting Lucas to suggest he check the record of the hearing.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Well, they brought it upon themselves.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Tinydeals. Picosells. Nanotrades.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

1. Does the activity involve a monetary transaction for a randomized or semi-randomized payout of value?

2. Is the activity habituating?

3. Is the mechanic presented in a way that maximizes habituation?

If the answers to the above question are "yes", then indeed it is gambling and should be regulated as gambling. EA's ridiculous semantic games do nothing other than tip their hand.

In this we can compare Magic the Gathering to loot boxes.

Players buy starter and booster packs with real money. Each pack has a semi-randomized payout of cards; X amount of commons, Y amount of uncommons, Z amount of rares, with W chance of any given card being a foil and Z-sub 1 chance for the guaranteed rare to be a mythic. Individual cards within each rarity grouping have a randomized chance of being in the pack. The activity is habituating, and given semi-randomized pack purchases are the sole primary market, indeed the activity maximizes habituation.

What stops MtG from being considered gambling, is the secondary market. Cards can be traded or purchased individually from vendors. The secondary market dictates single price, in accordance with supply (print rarity) and demand (card power); the only control the producer (WotC) has over the secondary market, is to dictate card rarity.

 

[Thaluikhain]

1. Does the activity involve a monetary transaction for a randomized or semi-randomized payout of value?

2. Is the activity habituating?

3. Is the mechanic presented in a way that maximizes habituation?

If the answers to the above question are "yes", then indeed it is gambling and should be regulated as gambling. EA's ridiculous semantic games do nothing other than tip their hand.

Do you need the second 2 questions there? I mean, yeah, makes things increasing worse, but if you answer yes to the first, that's some form of gambling.

In this we can compare Magic the Gathering to loot boxes.

Players buy starter and booster packs with real money. Each pack has a semi-randomized payout of cards; X amount of commons, Y amount of uncommons, Z amount of rares, with W chance of any given card being a foil and Z-sub 1 chance for the guaranteed rare to be a mythic. Individual cards within each rarity grouping have a randomized chance of being in the pack. The activity is habituating, and given semi-randomized pack purchases are the sole primary market, indeed the activity maximizes habituation.

What stops MtG from being considered gambling, is the secondary market. Cards can be traded or purchased individually from vendors. The secondary market dictates single price, in accordance with supply (print rarity) and demand (card power); the only control the producer (WotC) has over the secondary market, is to dictate card rarity.

I dunno, I (briefly) was into getting trading cards as a form of gambling back when I was very young.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I really hope that government don't start making rule about this stuff.

If the industry could self-regulate, the government wouldn't have to step in. But the industry has demonstrated that it will just keep pushing and pushing against the boundaries.

They have the ESRB, so the can self-regulate... as long as it doesn't directly affect the amount they can squirrel away to their coffers.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Do you need the second 2 questions there? I mean, yeah, makes things increasing worse, but if you answer yes to the first, that's some form of gambling.

Really, that part is more about the ethics of gambling as a business, and the extent to which the gambling business can and should be regulated. Look, for example, at how heavily casinos are regulated, and despite this are constantly on the lookout for any and every advantage that can be seized to ensure gamblers are encouraged and habituated to continue gambling. Comps are the most obvious example, especially compensatory booze because alcohol impairs judgment and inhibitions, but other strategies are prevalent such as courting high rollers as a loss-leading strategy to draw in spectators and aspirants. Hell, despite the practice having fallen out of popularity, that was the entire idea behind having showgirls walk the gambling floor.