Earth's Whitey-est Heroes

[Karathos]

Wow, I read nothing but the title and I already knew I was in for another facepalm-fest. This is the kind of PC crap that ruins most media. "OMG THERE ARE NO BLACK/ASIAN/INUIT/NATIVE AMERICAN/CRIPPLED/HANDICAPPED SUPERHEROES IN THIS MOVIE - WE MUST ADD ONE IN JUST BECAUSE HERP!"

It's the dumbest reasoning ever, and it in fact perpetuates the very "racism" it's supposed to (by some random logic) work against. Special treatment because of ethnic origins; it works both ways - better or worse treatment based on racial background.

I agree they could've and in fact should've added War Machine into the movie, but because he's a very central character to Iron Man - not because he happens to be a black guy.

 

[Calbeck]

It is different, the events in the Tuskegee Airmen films ( be it Redtails or the 1995 film) are based on actual events, and are a part of WWII history. Whereas Thor Oden Heimdall and the rest of the Asgardians are a part of legend, which implies fiction.

Doesn't matter a bit. The objective stated was diversity for its own sake. Not to add to the film, not to improve anything, and in fact even if it might DETRACT from the movie. That's precisely what would happen in both cases.

But Bob only complains about "The Avengers" being less ethnically-diverse than he would like, his proposed solution being that characters with arguably far less power to attract audiences (Luke Cage et al) should have been used instead.

Solely because of their skin color.

 

[Alandoril]

Well, isn't this version of Nick Fury black? He's kinda important seeing as he's the "leader" of the group.

Not that race is even relevant these days. Is it? Now socio-economic inequality...that is what we should be campaigning against.

 

[Sovereignty]

This type of, "Racist Avengers." Articles isn't new, I've seen em floating around the web for a while so that being said time to levy my criticisms at Bob the same way I did with the other sensationalist articles just dying for something to be wrong.

I must be the only non-racist person in the world, because not once during the whole movie did I stop and go, "Wow why are there so many white people?" I'm also apparently the only person who isn't sexist because I never thought, "Why are there so few female Avengers?"

No you know what I thought AFTER the credits finished and that scene with them eating Shawarma ended?

"Wow that movie was awesome! I hope next time they include Ms. Marvel!" Then it continued with me thinking of alll the other superheroes they could have added. And it dawned on me. If they'd added anyone (Even war machine which I actually agree would have made far more sense than Iron Man... Though it could be surmised Rhodes wouldn't have let the government keep the suit after the whole fiasco in IM2)

The whole movie would have been bloated. I'm all for establishing more heroes in future movies, but by replacing others. And to suggest Luke Cage be in ANY movie. BLEH. He's probably the only Black superhero I CANT stand. His powers are lame, there's no special effects to be had from including him, and his skill set is completely removed by 3 of the other current movie avengers. I mean he can't fly, he isn't as strong as Hulk or Thor, he's got no projectile abilities, isn't stealthy... And the list goes on.

I support maybe adding in Spider-Woman cause her being a sleeper agent would be awesome for crippling shield... But I think things become sexist and racist when you start trying to include things BECAUSE diversity isn't prominent.

You contribute to racism by acknowledging certain races need more representation. What, do you think the world will forget black people exist if there aren't more than 1 in a super hero movie? Do you think casting every superhero with a black actor will take away the years of injustice the black community suffered?

Not saying it's just as bad as these people who cried foul over Heimdall being black, but it's right up there.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the go-to "minority heroes" play to far too many stereotypes. Black-guy-as-written-by-70's-white-guy, or Asian-guy-as-written-by-White-Bruce-Lee-fan.

Exactly. That's always been the biggest problem with minority characters, the writers never let them act like actual people, even when they're written by people FROM that minority! In the rare cases that there is a minorty character that is not stereotypical, they always stick in a bunch of people from that minorty that are incredibly cliched stereotypes regardless.

My biggest problem with minorty and gender diversity is this: YOU DON'T NEED TO SHOEHORN IN MINORITIES AND WOMEN IN EVERYTHING!!! Seriously, what's the big deal with all the important characters being nothing but white guys and the occasional woman? Why does everybody want minorities and more women (that aren't just there to be eye candy) put in everything just for the sake of having them there?

 

[immortalfrieza]

This type of, "Racist Avengers." Articles isn't new, I've seen em floating around the web for a while so that being said time to levy my criticisms at Bob the same way I did with the other sensationalist articles just dying for something to be wrong.

I must be the only non-racist person in the world, because not once during the whole movie did I stop and go, "Wow why are there so many white people?" I'm also apparently the only person who isn't sexist because I never thought, "Why are there so few female Avengers?"

No you know what I thought AFTER the credits finished and that scene with them eating Shawarma ended?

"Wow that movie was awesome! I hope next time they include Ms. Marvel!" Then it continued with me thinking of alll the other superheroes they could have added. And it dawned on me. If they'd added anyone (Even war machine which I actually agree would have made far more sense than Iron Man... Though it could be surmised Rhodes wouldn't have let the government keep the suit after the whole fiasco in IM2)

The whole movie would have been bloated. I'm all for establishing more heroes in future movies, but by replacing others. And to suggest Luke Cage be in ANY movie. BLEH. He's probably the only Black superhero I CANT stand. His powers are lame, there's no special effects to be had from including him, and his skill set is completely removed by 3 of the other current movie avengers. I mean he can't fly, he isn't as strong as Hulk or Thor, he's got no projectile abilities, isn't stealthy... And the list goes on.

I support maybe adding in Spider-Woman cause her being a sleeper agent would be awesome for crippling shield... But I think things become sexist and racist when you start trying to include things BECAUSE diversity isn't prominent.

You contribute to racism by acknowledging certain races need more representation. What, do you think the world will forget black people exist if there aren't more than 1 in a super hero movie? Do you think casting every superhero with a black actor will take away the years of injustice the black community suffered?

Not saying it's just as bad as these people who cried foul over Heimdall being black, but it's right up there.

^This, this, a thousand times this. This Political Correctness garbage that everyone is obsessed with is incredibly racist and sexist, both to the people that it's trying to defend and the people that it's trying to get everybody to be.

 

[Dastardly]

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the go-to "minority heroes" play to far too many stereotypes. Black-guy-as-written-by-70's-white-guy, or Asian-guy-as-written-by-White-Bruce-Lee-fan.

Exactly. That's always been the biggest problem with minority characters, the writers never let them act like actual people, even when they're written by people FROM that minority! In the rare cases that there is a minorty character that is not stereotypical, they always stick in a bunch of people from that minorty that are incredibly cliched stereotypes regardless.

My biggest problem with minorty and gender diversity is this: YOU DON'T NEED TO SHOEHORN IN MINORITIES AND WOMEN IN EVERYTHING!!! Seriously, what's the big deal with all the important characters being nothing but white guys and the occasional woman? Why does everybody want minorities and more women (that aren't just there to be eye candy) put in everything just for the sake of having them there?

I dunno. I see the big deal. Media is very much geared toward white males, making it the status quo... and so most media is consumed by white males, because that's who it's made for... so then people say, "Well yeah, that's where the money is -- look who buys most of it!"... so they continue making it for white males... so the cycle continues.

To see how big a deal it is to some folks, consider how big a deal it is to you that they want to include more representation for minorities (and thus less representation for white males). Perhaps you relate better with characters of that sort (perhaps more like yourself?), or it's just how you're used to seeing things.

If half the room likes pepperoni, and the other half of the room is made up of people who like a variety of peppers, onions, sausage, and extra cheese, it's not cool for every pizza to always be pepperoni... or to insist that all of those other groups instead go buy their own individual pizzas.

 

[MorganL4]

It is different, the events in the Tuskegee Airmen films ( be it Redtails or the 1995 film) are based on actual events, and are a part of WWII history. Whereas Thor Oden Heimdall and the rest of the Asgardians are a part of legend, which implies fiction.

Doesn't matter a bit. The objective stated was diversity for its own sake. Not to add to the film, not to improve anything, and in fact even if it might DETRACT from the movie. That's precisely what would happen in both cases.

But Bob only complains about "The Avengers" being less ethnically-diverse than he would like, his proposed solution being that characters with arguably far less power to attract audiences (Luke Cage et al) should have been used instead.

Solely because of their skin color.

I think the reason for adding ethnic (and sexual) diversity to the film WOULD BE to add to the film, I don't think anyone was saying: Take Hulk out, and put Black Panther in, on the contrary I think people were saying put Panther in the film WITH Hulk and the rest of the gang. And in the year 800 ( or whenever the asguardian legend surfaced, the population they were a part of, and aiming for was 100% white, in fact I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the Viking people never saw a person of color. 30 years from now white people will be the minority here in the USA.

Altering fiction, for the purposes of relating to your audience has been a human tradition from the dawn of time, I'm not going to argue fact or fiction on this issue, but When the Indian Buddhist monks started heading to China and Japan to get their philosophies heard, they incorporated what was already there in order to make it relate-able. Christmas Trees and Easter Bunnies are pagan not Christian, but they are two of the most visible christian symbols to date. So why can't we do this with Heimdall? Or include Black Panther in the Avengers along with the rest?

Seriously, we made Jesus a white guy with blonde hair, blue eyes and flip flops, I don't hear an outcry about that..... But Heimdall Black? GOOD HEAVENS NO!!!

 

[immortalfrieza]

It is different, the events in the Tuskegee Airmen films ( be it Redtails or the 1995 film) are based on actual events, and are a part of WWII history. Whereas Thor Oden Heimdall and the rest of the Asgardians are a part of legend, which implies fiction.

Doesn't matter a bit. The objective stated was diversity for its own sake. Not to add to the film, not to improve anything, and in fact even if it might DETRACT from the movie. That's precisely what would happen in both cases.

But Bob only complains about "The Avengers" being less ethnically-diverse than he would like, his proposed solution being that characters with arguably far less power to attract audiences (Luke Cage et al) should have been used instead.

Solely because of their skin color.

I think the reason for adding ethnic (and sexual) diversity to the film WOULD BE to add to the film, I don't think anyone was saying: Take Hulk out, and put Black Panther in, on the contrary I think people were saying put Panther in the film WITH Hulk and the rest of the gang.

In order to be able to do that though, they'd either have to make the movie longer or cut short the characterization of the other Avengers in order to make room for this new guy/gal, which probably wouldn't be good.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the go-to "minority heroes" play to far too many stereotypes. Black-guy-as-written-by-70's-white-guy, or Asian-guy-as-written-by-White-Bruce-Lee-fan.

Exactly. That's always been the biggest problem with minority characters, the writers never let them act like actual people, even when they're written by people FROM that minority! In the rare cases that there is a minorty character that is not stereotypical, they always stick in a bunch of people from that minorty that are incredibly cliched stereotypes regardless.

My biggest problem with minorty and gender diversity is this: YOU DON'T NEED TO SHOEHORN IN MINORITIES AND WOMEN IN EVERYTHING!!! Seriously, what's the big deal with all the important characters being nothing but white guys and the occasional woman? Why does everybody want minorities and more women (that aren't just there to be eye candy) put in everything just for the sake of having them there?

I dunno. I see the big deal. Media is very much geared toward white males, making it the status quo... and so most media is consumed by white males, because that's who it's made for... so then people say, "Well yeah, that's where the money is -- look who buys most of it!"... so they continue making it for white males... so the cycle continues.

If media has a lot of white males, then that's because that's what the audience wants, including the minorities and women. If everybody wanted a lot of minorities and women in a media then there would BE a lot of minorities and women in that media. It's not the fault of the creators that they give us what we want.

To see how big a deal it is to some folks, consider how big a deal it is to you that they want to include more representation for minorities (and thus less representation for white males). Perhaps you relate better with characters of that sort (perhaps more like yourself?), or it's just how you're used to seeing things.

It's not really a big deal to me either that white males are being removed or lessened to make room for these W&M, it's that I'm getting tired of seeing people complaining about the lack or women and Minorities, as well as the fact that I hate that W&Ms are being put in just for the sheer sake of having them, not because they're important or benefical to the media, or to help evaluate that Minority's and women's status. I don't have any problem with W&Ms being in when it's actually good for the media they're in and they're respectful and nonstereotypical to the W&Ms.

If half the room likes pepperoni, and the other half of the room is made up of people who like a variety of peppers, onions, sausage, and extra cheese, it's not cool for every pizza to always be pepperoni... or to insist that all of those other groups instead go buy their own individual pizzas.

Me, if I were the host I'd just buy a bunch of cheese pizzas, everybody likes those.

Actually, having those guests buy their own pizzas would be justified, they're tastes are quite different from everybody else's, the host probably wouldn't have been able to anticipate beforehand what those people would want, it wouldn't be fair to the host to expect him to provide what everybody wants.

 

[Urameshi13]

I have been thinking that when DC finally gets their act together, the GL for the Justice League movie should be John Stewart. Especially if Marvel can successfully pull off a solo Black Panther movie, then I think a movie about a former US Marine gaining the power of the Green Lantern should be an easy sell.

Or maybe just get a good GL movie and have one for each of the Earths GLs and have them team up for a giant fight against say the RLs

I think the world will be better off without a Guy Gardner movie.

 

[Krion_Vark]

I have been thinking that when DC finally gets their act together, the GL for the Justice League movie should be John Stewart. Especially if Marvel can successfully pull off a solo Black Panther movie, then I think a movie about a former US Marine gaining the power of the Green Lantern should be an easy sell.

Or maybe just get a good GL movie and have one for each of the Earths GLs and have them team up for a giant fight against say the RLs

I think the world will be better off without a Guy Gardner movie.

I was thinking Hal Jordan, John Stewart and Kyle Rayner. They could have Guy Gardener as a side character though wouldn't mind that too much

 

[Urameshi13]

I did love the little "shout out" they gave Guy in Young Justice.

BTW, if any of you are not watching that, start doing so immediately. But make sure you take it from the top.

 

[Invadergray]

T'Challa couldn't be in a marvel movie because his wife (Storm) and his homeland (Wakanda) are both originally from X-Men which is still owned by Fox.