Educators: Students have too little debt

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Vausch

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"LONG BEACH, Calif. ? Jesse Yeh uses the University of California-Berkeley library instead of buying textbooks. He scrounges for free food at campus events and occasionally skips meals. He's stopped exercising and sleeps five to six hours per night so he can take 21 credits ? a course load so heavy he had to get special permission from a dean.

The only thing he won't do: take out a student loan.

"I see a lot of my friends who took out student loans, then they graduated and because of the economy right now they still couldn't find a job," said the third-year student, whose parents both lost their jobs in 2009 and who grew up in the boom-and-bust town of Victorville, Calif., on a block with several houses in foreclosure. "The debt burden is really heavy on them."

Even as college prices and average student loan debt rise, educators in some sectors of higher education report they're also seeing plenty of students like Yeh. After watching debt cause widespread damage in their families and communities, they're determined to avoid loans no matter what.

What's surprising is this: Educators aren't sure that's always such a good thing.

Students who take extreme steps to avoid debt at all costs, they say, may get stuck with something much more financially damaging than moderate student loan debt. They may not wind up with a college degree.

To pay for college and minimize borrowing, students are working longer hours at jobs and taking fewer credits. They're less likely to enroll full-time. They're living at home. They're "trading down" to less selective institutions with lower prices, and heading first to cheaper community colleges with plans to transfer later to four-year schools.

Those may sound like money-savers, but in fact each is a well-documented risk factor that makes students less likely to graduate."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/28/the-other-student-loan-pr_0_n_1116040.html

So in other words, stop trying so hard, get a loan and make sure you can go to school so you can get a job to pay off that loan for the next 20 years.

And if memory serves, our military budget is supposed to increase to over 707 billion next year from 666 billion this year (correct me if I'm wrong but make sure nobody else did). Priorities?
 

LilithSlave

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This is ridiculous. Such an education doesn't even close to guarantee a job, much less a higher paying job.

They're just looking after their own interests and kicking the interests of students in the face. Going to school less and working more IS better. Because you're actually making money instead of going into debt. Sadly, money is something you can fall back on much better than an education.

As wonderful as education is, it's not nearly as secure of an investment as many people say it is.

And living at home, working more, and taking less classes, *is* as smart as many students think it is.
 

Freaky Lou

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Remaining debt-free is actually a lot more important for one's financial future than getting a degree. The students are being a lot smarter than the professors here.
 

Navvan

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Those are risk factors and not guaranteed failure though. While I personally have some student loans its relatively little compared to most. I will be graduating with 4 degrees within 5 years and ~15,000 in debt for those curious. Assuming I'm able to get into a graduate school research program I will be able to pay off the debt before I even finish graduate school.

I also carry as close to 20 credits my schedule will allow (18 minimum). However I don't work much during the school year, but instead work my ass off (60+ hours every week) during the summer in order to pay for most of my college expenses.

What I'm trying to get at is just because there are risk factors does not mean no loans or few loans is the wrong choice for you. You have to be aware of your own limits however, and don't be afraid of taking out loans if its necessary.
 

chowderface

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As a recent grad who's having trouble finding work, and has crazy debt because of getting my degree, I'll say this: The instant having a degree GUARANTEES me a job, and I do mean literally guarantees me a job, I will consider this article valid and the person who wrote it not dumb. Until then, I have this to say to undergrads: If you can do anything to avoid taking out a loan, DO IT.
 

Navvan

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chowderface said:
As a recent grad who's having trouble finding work, and has crazy debt because of getting my degree, I'll say this: The instant having a degree GUARANTEES me a job, and I do mean literally guarantees me a job, I will consider this article valid and the person who wrote it not dumb. Until then, I have this to say to undergrads: If you can do anything to avoid taking out a loan, DO IT.
Feel free to ignore this, but out of curiosity what degree did you earn, and what is the field you are interested in working in. Just wondering as a soon to be graduate.
 

cheese_wizington

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AKA: What is this shit? Students are making smart decisions and therefor costing us money? Lets spread some bullshit and lies to get the green flowing again, guys!
 

rayen020

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Yes because while a friend of mine still has $250,000 in debts to pay off, that degree in business science is doing alot for her in this economy. Did you know that from 2005-2008 students were taught that sub-prime loans were one of the safest investments you could make?
 

mikey7339

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I was going to take out student loans that would have totaled me paying back over $100,000. Never did it, didn't get a degree and what did I end up with? My pilot license, a good job and I already own my own house.

I keep saying this, but it's not what you know it's who you know.
 

chowderface

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Navvan said:
chowderface said:
As a recent grad who's having trouble finding work, and has crazy debt because of getting my degree, I'll say this: The instant having a degree GUARANTEES me a job, and I do mean literally guarantees me a job, I will consider this article valid and the person who wrote it not dumb. Until then, I have this to say to undergrads: If you can do anything to avoid taking out a loan, DO IT.
Feel free to ignore this, but out of curiosity what degree did you earn, and what is the field you are interested in working in. Just wondering as a soon to be graduate.
I have a BFA in animation, which should tell you something about the field I'm trying to go into. Admittedly, any kind of art-related field is tough to get into at the best of times because there's more people who want to get into it than there are jobs for them, but I'm having trouble finding ANY job.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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I beg you pardon? TEACHERS are saying that?

I can understand the government or the school administration saying that (because it means more money for them!), but TEACHERS? What?
 

Kevlar Eater

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I may not be very educated, but even I know that taking out student loans at a time like this is a very bad idea. The very idea of educators threatening students by holding their degrees hostage if they don't take out a loan is very much appalling.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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Wow... what a prime example of taking useful advice and twisting it to serve nefarious purposes. Let us examine exactly what they are saying shall we?

The less classes you take, the longer you'll be in school.
The longer you're in school, the higher the tuitions costs.
The longer you're in school, the increased interest on loans.
The longer you're in school, the less time you can utilize the degree in a higher paying job.
The longer you're in school, the higher the chance you will drop out prior to completion.
The cheaper the school, the less prestigous oppertunities await.

Now you're trying to tell me this is simply dubious advice that money grubbing for profit colleges use to sucker poor kids into throwing their financial lives away willfully incurring debt to invest in a decent education to obtain a career in a field they want to be a part of? I'm *shocked*!

Never mind that the school is offering their assistance to a student to help them complete their degree and get into the field sooner.

Never mind that interest rates paid on loans help support additional loans that can be provided to more students.

Nope. It's all about greedy educators trying to get more money out of poor students.
 

urahara75

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chowderface said:
As a recent grad who's having trouble finding work, and has crazy debt because of getting my degree, I'll say this: The instant having a degree GUARANTEES me a job, and I do mean literally guarantees me a job, I will consider this article valid and the person who wrote it not dumb. Until then, I have this to say to undergrads: If you can do anything to avoid taking out a loan, DO IT.
You've... just... reaffirmed my exact sentiments, almost word-for-word. :)

While I'm also inclined to tell those same educators to "STOP TROLLING!" and "STFU, & GTFO to top it off", I also realise that they're also in a similar spot -- educators, on an individual level, are also in a dire situation. Like movie theatres, universities make the bulk of their revenue from the sale of ancillary consumable products and services sold on their premises. Tuition and boarding fees largely just cover expenses related to students physically attending classes, faculty teaching salaries, various legal and safety assurances for those students, and students' living space(s) (not accounting commodities usage like water, heat, indoor plumbing, etc.,). If students aren't spending on things like textbooks, junk and "take out" food, school merchandise, cultural/athletic events, and the like, schools become less profitable, and in turn, are more likely to lay off or terminate those very same faculty members.

TLDR: I strongly call BS, but can empathise with the self preservation motive(s) of such self-serving FUD.
 

Arkvoodle

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I took out student loans for an apparently promising university, then suffered a nervous breakdown at the beginning of my third year and wasn't able to finish. Now I've got a worthless associates' degree and a mediocre job with barely enough to make ends meet each month & still thirteen grand to repay.


FUCK this guy.
 

isometry

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The reason a lot of college students don't get jobs after graduating is that they shouldn't have gone to college in the first place: they didn't have a good idea of what they would study and how it would lead to a career.

I'm not saying this applies to everyone, the economy is tough and some students who took a pragmatic approach to their education the whole time are unable to find work. But the lolly-gagging crowd that came to college for parties, sex, alcohol, etc moreso than for education are definitely not able to find work.

Got a solid idea of what your studies will be like and what career they will lead you to? Take out a loan.

Going to college because you weren't sure what to do after high school and wanted to have lots of young-adult social experiences? Don't take out a loan, work part-time to support yourself.
 

dyre

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Unless you do something retarded to avoid debt (as in, not take enough credits to graduate), I don't see how avoiding debt stops people from graduating. Hell, the ones who put a lot of thought into limiting debt are usually the responsible types.

Vausch said:
And if memory serves, our military budget is supposed to increase to over 707 billion next year from 666 billion this year (correct me if I'm wrong but make sure nobody else did). Priorities?
It's not like private universities (basically, the expensive colleges) don't already have lots of money :p

There's a problem here, but inadequate taxpayer funds isn't it.
 

Vausch

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dyre said:
Unless you do something retarded to avoid debt (as in, not take enough credits to graduate), I don't see how avoiding debt stops people from graduating. Hell, the ones who put a lot of thought into limiting debt are usually the responsible types.

Vausch said:
And if memory serves, our military budget is supposed to increase to over 707 billion next year from 666 billion this year (correct me if I'm wrong but make sure nobody else did). Priorities?
It's not like private universities (basically, the expensive colleges) don't already have lots of money :p

There's a problem here, but inadequate taxpayer funds isn't it.
Well, of course. I'm aware the problem is also directed at the universities having terrible ideas of what to focus on, often times the administrators have 6 figure salaries paid for by the tuitions of students while offering full ride scholarships to sports players and ignoring students that have worked hard their entire school lives and would be a strong benefit to society as a whole once they have the skills and slip of paper that validates them as said asset. But, I'm also saying perhaps if those billions got instead diverted to Pell grants and increased the maximum amount by maybe an additional thousand dollars or so, perhaps that could ease the burden a little.
 

Vausch

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isometry said:
The reason a lot of college students don't get jobs after graduating is that they shouldn't have gone to college in the first place: they didn't have a good idea of what they would study and how it would lead to a career.

I'm not saying this applies to everyone, the economy is tough and some students who took a pragmatic approach to their education the whole time are unable to find work. But the lolly-gagging crowd that came to college for parties, sex, alcohol, etc moreso than for education are definitely not able to find work.

Got a solid idea of what your studies will be like and what career they will lead you to? Take out a loan.

Going to college because you weren't sure what to do after high school and wanted to have lots of young-adult social experiences? Don't take out a loan, work part-time to support yourself.
Computer and Electronic engineering with a possible minor in art and character design, but I'm still not taking out a loan. I'm hoping my friend at Intel will pull through and help me with an internship to pay for school, but I'm not going to rely on it.
 

ConstantErasing

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chowderface said:
As a recent grad who's having trouble finding work, and has crazy debt because of getting my degree, I'll say this: The instant having a degree GUARANTEES me a job, and I do mean literally guarantees me a job, I will consider this article valid and the person who wrote it not dumb. Until then, I have this to say to undergrads: If you can do anything to avoid taking out a loan, DO IT.
Paper Engineering. No seriously, 100% of people who graduate from a nearby university (can't speak for others but I think they are similar) with a degree in Paper Engineering get a job. And apparently can easily end up with a starting salary of around $66,000 a year. That being said however in other fields I have to agree, frugality is the way to go.