Elder Scrolls Online- Leveling Guides Are Going to Ruin The Game (with video).

[Arluza]

RPG = ROLL PLAYING

You nailed it without knowing it. You were trying to argue it is a ROLE PLAYING game but spelled it wrong, oddly enough answering your own question. Skyrim and other single player RPGs are ROLE PLAYING games. MMORPGs are ROLL PLAYING. As in, min/max all stats/armors/powers to become the strongest person on the server.

TSEO is an MMO so the focus will obviously be PvP, and PvE will be largely a boring place where you go to get UP to the PvP areas.

 

[dyre]

Err, you're complaining that some random third party group made a leveling guide to the game? Why blame the developers on something that is entirely not related to them? And how does it ruin the game that a small fraction of players is going to grind to level 50 during the course of a half week? They'll ruin their own experiences, but it's completely irrelevant to you (or at least it should be).

Just calm down. Plenty of games have FAQs / guides available on the internet. It doesn't affect the quality of the game.

I'd say the complaint isn't about the existence of such guides but rather points to a problem with player mentality. The goal of getting to the end quickly is broadly equivalent to playing Skyrim for the first time only to try and complete every major quest as efficiently as possible. In a game that is very story driven a mentality built from years of WoW where the best stuff was found at the end can be wildly counter-productive.

I agree that following leveling guides is a bad mentality to approach Skyrim, but it doesn't harm anyone but yourself, so I don't see the need to pitch a fit about it (you have to admit the OP was pretty close to pitching a fit ).

On an unrelated note, I haven't been following ESO so I wonder how story driven it really is. I had hoped that it'd just be Skyrim with multiplayer (and maybe some less linear dungeons that encourage the party to approach it in different ways. Like, maybe a rogue could distract the bulk of the enemies and then hide, sending them on a wild goose chase, allowing the rest of the team to sneak in from the back entrance. Or maybe the rogue could pull the enemies into an ambush that the players set with fire runes and traps. Something along those lines), but I've only been hearing bad news about it recently.

 

[sageoftruth]

Ouch! An entire thread of the OP getting owned over and over. I'd hate to be in his shoes.

 

[00slash00]

Leveling guides are clearly not intended for people who like to take things slow and experience everything. It isn't being forced on anyone so if someone uses them, that's entirely their call. Many mmo players hold the mentality that the game doesn't truly start until you hit endgame, so he guides are designed for people who want to reach that point quickly and don't care about lore or anything like that. Of course, a game this new will have pretty limited endgame content so using a guide now seems like a pretty bad idea

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I agree that following leveling guides is a bad mentality to approach Skyrim, but it doesn't harm anyone but yourself, so I don't see the need to pitch a fit about it (you have to admit the OP was pretty close to pitching a fit ).

I'd be inclined to say that it's not a problem were it not for the fact that at this moment there doesn't seem to be a lot to do at end game beyond PVP. The mindset is dangerous (and also all but impossible to change) simply because that's a big part of why each new MMO gets piles of new players the first few months followed by a rapid nose-dive off the numbers cliff as people reach the "end game". New MMOs don't have years of extra development time to have a lot of meaningful stuff and the sudden collapse of the player base rarely seems to bode well for the long term health of the game.

On an unrelated note, I haven't been following ESO so I wonder how story driven it really is. I had hoped that it'd just be Skyrim with multiplayer (and maybe some less linear dungeons that encourage the party to approach it in different ways. Like, maybe a rogue could distract the bulk of the enemies and then hide, sending them on a wild goose chase, allowing the rest of the team to sneak in from the back entrance. Or maybe the rogue could pull the enemies into an ambush that the players set with fire runes and traps. Something along those lines), but I've only been hearing bad news about it recently.

I absolutely cannot speak with authority as I have only played a small amount of the game thus far (perhaps six hours total). Combat is much more active than in most MMOs but still has an undeniable MMO quality. Stealth generally seems to kinda sorta work more or less like it does in the single player games but it is marred to a degree by the fact that the enemies act very much like MMO enemies. Only a handful of skills you would directly recognize from the single player games are present in the MMO but there are a number of "inspired by" situations. Mission design thus far has been somewhat more varied and so far I have not run into a single instance of "kill X things" quests and the generic fetch style quests I have been on have had a fairly solid narrative reason behind it. I've also run into one instance where the quest was basically a set of vague clues about the landscape that I was required to follow to a particular location.

In general it has managed to have a more impressive opening few hours than other MMOs I've tried but that's almost entirely from a single player perspective. The multiplayer element, thus far at least, has proven to be fairly irrelevant if not outright harmful to the game experience in a fashion that I would say is similar to the Neverwinter MMO. Basically, by making it a fairly good single player experience, the multiplayer aspect has been diminished to a degree. Playing as a Templar, for example, it doesn't seem like I really have much of a need of a party as I easily fulfill all the classic roles by myself and I'm easily able to tank, heal, and do enough damage that standard mobs are little more than fodder. The game's tendency to regard me as being fairly special as far as the story goes falls flat when there are dozens of others just like me standing around. Seeing people bunny hop their way through a town undermines any immersion that the game might attempt to build and even if you ignore that particular misstep, the common rubbish names you see in online games certainly doesn't help.

In many ways, I'd say the game thus far seems fairly true in spirit to the single player games while making mechanical concessions to the genre.

 

[dyre]

I agree that following leveling guides is a bad mentality to approach Skyrim, but it doesn't harm anyone but yourself, so I don't see the need to pitch a fit about it (you have to admit the OP was pretty close to pitching a fit ).

I'd be inclined to say that it's not a problem were it not for the fact that at this moment there doesn't seem to be a lot to do at end game beyond PVP. The mindset is dangerous (and also all but impossible to change) simply because that's a big part of why each new MMO gets piles of new players the first few months followed by a rapid nose-dive off the numbers cliff as people reach the "end game". New MMOs don't have years of extra development time to have a lot of meaningful stuff and the sudden collapse of the player base rarely seems to bode well for the long term health of the game.

Hmm, fair point. Though, surely the month (ballpark guess) it takes to reach endgame level at a natural pace compared to the four days it takes with a leveling guide won't make too much of a difference; both groups of players will reach endgame and be forced to wait several months for new content.

[snip]
In many ways, I'd say the game thus far seems fairly true in spirit to the single player games while making mechanical concessions to the genre.

Well, that's good to hear at least. I'm almost positive it'll be a financial failure but if it's at least a good financial failure I'll check it out when it goes free-to-play

 

[Rad Party God]

Oh noes!, someone is releasing a guide for something!, everyone!, flip out!.

Seriously though... meh... if people want to use it, good for them, if you don't want to use it... then don't use it!.

Also, this could be useful for people who uses alts, I found guides for Age of Conan very useful to rush through Tortage* on my 3rd character, so yeah, I don't see any problem with it.

[small]*Really cool place, one of the best starting zones in any MMO ever, but... it's fun for 1 or 2 times, then it gets incredibly tedious.[/small]

 

[rofltehcat]

Not a problem at all. If people want to level that quickly they are free to do so. From my MMO-experience I have to say that the most compelling content tends to be placed at or near max level anyways whereas the leveling experience often is mainly just filler content ("kill 10 wolves, collect 5 boar tusks, bring this to npc x") without any real meaning. Once you are max lvl you can still do that stuff if you are interested in the lore etc.

I don't know if that is the case in ESO but really why would you care? It is not like they are forcing you to do it the same way they do.

 

[RJ 17]

Man, how is Prima expected to make any money on their game guides when people are giving the shit away for free?

That's what I was going to mention: "How long before someone just slaps something up on gamefaqs?" I mean seriously, they're not selling gold/equipment for real world money, they're selling strategy guides.

Newsflash to the OP: Strategy Guides have existed for a very, very long time, and the age of paying for said strategy guides ended when gamefaqs.com became a thing.

 

[infohippie]

Do people really not know what endgame is?

Yes, the boring pointless part of the game when you realise grinding raids for gear is like a second job that you don't get paid for, so you stop playing and find a new game instead.

The only MMO I have found to still be fun after reaching level cap is GW2.

 

[JET1971]

Most that play an RPG do not "Role Play" Especially an MMO. Most play a SP RPG for the story and gameplay, to see how different choices in the characters build changes how it plays and affects the story. As for MMO's it is more about the social aspect Doing things in the game with other players from manipulating whatever market system there is, doing quests together, to PvP. Power leveling to endgame means you get to do things with everyone that is at endgame. Your clan may need a mage that specializes in healing for endgame PvP so you roll a healer. Or your fleet in STO needs a science captain for drains in an STF. you power level them so the character can be used as fast as possible.

Guides have a benefit for both SP and MMO, for SP/solo in an MMO it helps when there is a quest you cannot figure out how to proceed with. Look the quest up in a guide to see what you are missing and be able to continue the quests. For power leveling having a guide to show the most efficient way to level is very useful to get the character to endgame so it can then be used in endgame content.

 

[trekkiesailor]

I understand that I misspelled ROLE Playing and used ROLL Playing... my bad. I understand that "my" idea of fun isn't the same as everyone else's idea of fun... I guess I was just annoyed (after not sleeping and playing the game for a long time with little to no sleep might I add) that a third party was going to make money off of someone's endless hours of creation so that people could level up as soon as possible. I guess I just play RPGs differently then others. I like to play a little of the main story quests and do a lot of side quests that earn you few XP so I can explore the world, the different races etc. I thought more people would be upset about this as well. I felt it diminishes the idea and great qualities of an RPG. I wasn't looking to get my ass torn up by my fellow gamers, but looking more for what other people think about the idea. I know that game guides have existed for a long long time. Wal-mart sells game guides right next to the games... but I guess for single player non-rpg games I don't have a problem. I just didn't see the point of how other players were doing it. (Leveling up super fast so they could be the most powerful character, then exploring the world...) NOW I see a lot of it was for PvP. That's all I was asking for... different perceptions, opinions etc... not an ass chewing.

 

[Caliostro]

The fun part of an RPG is ROLE PLAYING...

>Implying "fun" isn't completely subjective. Come on... [http://i.imgur.com/VHjpgjy.jpg]

Personally I think leveling is the least fun part of any game it exists in. Any. Nor can I honestly understand why anyone enjoys it given that it's basically just vertical progression of meaningless random numbers in a database while you, the player, remain the same. It's a completely meaningless treadmill as far as I'm concerned. Conversely I'd rather take a bolt gun to my testicles than "RP"... But some people clearly disagree. That's fine. There's room in the world for them too.

The people using these guides? Clearly they don't give half a shit about leveling. And?

I think the more interesting question is why does this bother you? Given that nobody is forcing you to use them. You're perfectly free to "role play" as much as you want.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Man, how is Prima expected to make any money on their game guides when people are giving the shit away for free?

I've actually seen quite a lot of people willing to pay for a guidebook rather than get the info they need for free on the internet.

 

[BoogieManFL]

So you're here advertising something that you claim to despise. Strange.

But more to the point - why do you care how other people choose to play a game? It has nothing to do with you. Play it how you want, and leave other people to play how they want. It's simple, really.

 

[Therumancer]

Meh, taking my time with ESO. It's not a great game IMO, but I'm burned out on others and I'm in no rush. Wildstar is another one I'll slowly play through at some point, not great (going by the beta) but passable. The "next big MMO" for me has yet to appear. That game was almost "The Secret World" but for some reason it keeps hurting my hand to play it so I pretty much retired as a 10.2 wimp though I pop in occasionally.

The thing with ESO is that Bethesda's entire promise for selling the game is that they plan to do frequent content updates, and add new things in for the endgame every month (we're about to see if that's true very soon). Which means that they themselves are focused on the endgame.

What's more one of the annoying things about developing characters through the game is that very little matters until you hit level cap, since pretty much every piece of gear you find or obtain is something that your going to pass through fairly quickly. You don't actually get anything that's going to be with you for a while until the very end. This means that the rewards are inevitably unsatisfying. It all comes down to questing, and while ESO's quests aren't great, I've seen far worse, in 29 levels it's managed to keep me occupied in the time I put into it.

I am likely done with hardcore play after my WoW retirement (especially with growing tendonitis combined with some arthritis), but I'll admit that being able to whip through ESO's content if you want to is not a bad thing. See, when I was playing hardcore and lived for raids it was goof for the regulars in the guild to have a few different raid-capable alts so different people could fill different roles if they needed to. It's good that a guild can develop a backup healer alt or something like that fairly easily if the need arises. Recruiting new people isn't always an option when you already have a full raiding contingent and already have to worry about people perhaps getting left on the bench.

That said I'd also point out that leveling a character in "less than a week" is actually a pretty time consuming and says a lot for the game pace and content. Especially if this guide is written by someone who has played a lot of MMOs and really knows the tricks to power leveling. I've known people to be able to max a character in a couple of days (though gearing them for endgame is somewhat different, it might take a week all together if the guild schedules special runs specifically to gear the alt). I won't even get into easy games like say "Star Trek Online" where some people would probably be bloody scandalized at how fast you can hit top level if you want to and know what your doing.

That said inside of a couple of months almost all activity in any MMO is going to be based around the endgame. It's simply a reality. In "The Secret World" you wind up running your BB generating NM dungeons either with PUGs or your cabal of choice. In WoW you raid, etc... in most games PVP represents an alternative endgame activity.

 

[AgedGrunt]

I was expecting some promotional package with exclusives or items that made leveling faster than playing the game.

It's a guidebook, something that has been done since the dawn of gaming. Even games that don't need guides have guides. What do you think the people at GameFAQs are doing with all their time? What are all these RPG forums about?

Speed-running??? Oh man, every game is ruined!