Ender's Game Author Asks For Tolerance After Boycott Threat

[TheDeadlights]

When it all comes down to it, would you rather pay money for literature written by a man who claims that the vast majority of gays were rape victims, or would you rather use it on anything else?

Personally, I would rather not pay money to a man who claim's my father was a pedophile who raped me as a child.

 

[Genocidicles]

You are not promoting or supporting bigotry by seeing this movie or reading this book. You are promoting damn good storytelling and science fiction.

It kind of does support bigotry, as he donates to an anti gay marriage 'charity' or something. So buying his products provides him with a means to act on his bigotry.

I'm not too fussed myself though, as it doesn't affect me. I'm not gay and I don't know anyone who is, so if I decide to go and buy something of his then he can donate all the proceeds to a straight camp for all I care.

 

[Chessrook44]

You've got your views and I disagree with them. Your book was one of the greatest and most interesting books I've read and has absolutely nothing to do with those views, not even bringing them up in any manner.

I'll be seeing Ender's Game, because I loved the book.

 

[TheDeadlights]

Shortened for space

While I understand your point, I think you lack perspective. Think one of the most important thing in your life. Now picture someone who stands directly opposed to that, who even goes so far as to suggest you deserve to be incarcerated. Now, can you still sit idly by and enjoy his works? How does knowledge of his hateful spew not seep over into your experience?

 

[Pickapok]

While I understand your point, I think you lack perspective. Think one of the most important thing in your life. Now picture someone who stands directly opposed to that, who even goes so far as to suggest you deserve to be incarcerated. Now, can you still sit idly by and enjoy his works? How does knowledge of his hateful spew not seep over into your experience?

I can see how it can, I just don't think it should.

 

[1337mokro]

Beethoven is dead and not actively engaged in political movements to do anything. This guy is and wants to institutionalize unequal treatment for 10% of the population. He is part of a group of people that have for a long time mentally and physically abused those around them that think differently, look differently or act differently.

If you want to be the naive uninformed consumer then be one. Don't demand other people share in the ignorance of the products they support and thus the people behind the products. Why put ingredients on packages? If it's tastes good and you like it there is no problem with it right? Who cares if your chicken burgers are 70% sawdust.

If the person behind the product is a piece of shit, he is working towards make his bullshit beliefs effective law and on top of that really isn't that good of a writer then you should not ignore the effects of supporting this man financially.

I think you're mislabeling who the naive, ignorant consumer is here. People who let the political agenda of an author color their opinion of a recognized classic work of literature to the point of boycotting adaptations despite the two having no relation to each other are the ones who need to open their eyes.

Really because I think you sounded like the stupid uninformed customer here, one that doesn't even understand how royalties work. You also failed to separate two issues that are not mutually exclusive.

Opinion and Support.

I don't think Ender's game is all that good. I thought that back when I was a teenager reading this in the library. That is my opinion about the product itself. The movie looks interesting, it has allot going for it. However seeing as I have not seen it nor plan on seeing it I have no opinion on it.

I now as an adult refuse to support any product by this man because of his ideology. It is a hurtful ideology that wishes to segregate and drive a wedge within people. All for this man's ideology thought up by a conman we should separate and shun a part of our society. Screw that.

My opinion of his products are wholly separate from his ideology. My decision to not watch the movie he will receive money from for ever single ticket bought is a wholly different matter from whether I think it's any good.

To go back to the previous analogy if Beethoven was a Neo-nazi in present day and engaged in activities to classify Jews as second rate citizens politically I would boycott his work.

I could think it is a brilliant artistic piece, I even play the piano and love to perform his works, but I will not allow myself to financially support a man who stands for an idea and an ideology that directly opposes every single one of mine.

 

[bravetoaster]

It screams of people looking for a cause to rally around no matter how ultimately trivial.

I don't think you could have missed my point more completely.

I'll give it one more shot:

People--at least ones with the capacity for emotion--will be influenced by their emotions. Sometimes, a person's emotions (positive or negative), will influence their perceptions of the work or products produced by or associated with a particular person. This is not something you can change. If you don't understand how people could operate in such a way, you may never, but that's how many (or even most) humans work.

 

[Klitch]

Well darn, I wish I knew about this crap before I bought the first four Ender books. I guess I'll read them since they're already paid for, but this tool's not getting any more of my money. Guess this is another name to add to the bigot boycott banner.

 

[ShirowShirow]

Oh, so Orson Scott Card is a bigot AND a sniveling coward? Lovely.

Fuck him and his movie. He'll never get a cent from me.

 

[TheDeadlights]

While I understand your point, I think you lack perspective. Think one of the most important thing in your life. Now picture someone who stands directly opposed to that, who even goes so far as to suggest you deserve to be incarcerated. Now, can you still sit idly by and enjoy his works? How does knowledge of his hateful spew not seep over into your experience?

I can see how it can, I just don't think it should.

I am not saying you not enjoy the film yourself, just do not go around calling people naive until you've walked in their shoes.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

"Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute,"

I'm sure they will Card, right after your crowd stops being intolerant.

snip

Wow. I've seen a ton of baseless accusations on this forum, but that one takes the cake.

Okay, I see how it is. So Card is being punished for exercising his right to free speech, openly stating and campaigning for his beliefs. Basically, for doing the same thing the multitudes of gay right lobbyists do, just in the opposite direction. God forbid we have political disagreements with each other.

Uh yes, we are punishing him. That's how boycotts work. You'd rather he get death threats?

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences, provided those consequences are under the law.

 

[aggers]

i hope the ' death of the author' happens more then figuratively this time.

 

[bravetoaster]

I really liked Ender's Game, and a few of the sequel books (although I think the quality was on a slow decline for that series.)

Still, I didn't see any anti-gay stuff in his books. So whatever.

Although... I didn't really see what he actually said or did. Can someone show me what he did?

There isn't any anti-gay stuff in Ender's Game as far as I'm aware (although if you want bizarre anti-gay stuff in science fiction, Dune's kind of creepily loaded(edit: nope, totally wrong word choice, here--sorry for the confusion or any accidental outrage. Still not sure what the correct one'd be, but see followup comments) with it, at times... still love the series and Frank Herbert, but... yeah).

See wiki for an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality

He's on the board of directors for the "National Organization for Marriage" which, as you might guess, is an organization which ironically opposes having people to get legally married (and has done its best to oppress gay people because... who fucking knows).

Doesn't mean you have to not like is books or are a bad person for it, but I've found it hard to feel anything good toward the man or his work since finding out about that. Also, his anti-homosexuality essays are not just offensive in general, but seriously, deeply offensive to me as someone who absolutely loathes shitty attempts at argumentation. OSC is offensively, infuriatingly, absurdly, embarrassingly bad at forming a written argument.

 

[Pickapok]

It screams of people looking for a cause to rally around no matter how ultimately trivial.

I don't think you could have missed my point more completely.

I'll give it one more shot:

People--at least ones with the capacity for emotion--will be influenced by their emotions. Sometimes, a person's emotions (positive or negative), will influence their perceptions of the work or products produced by or associated with a particular person. This is not something you can change. If you don't understand how people could operate in such a way, you may never, but that's how many (or even most) humans work.

How very irrational and illogical.

Really because I think you sounded like the stupid uninformed customer here, one that doesn't even understand how royalties work. You also failed to separate two issues that are not mutually exclusive.

Opinion and Support.

I don't think Ender's game is all that good. I thought that back when I was a teenager reading this in the library. That is my opinion about the product itself. The movie looks interesting, it has allot going for it. However seeing as I have not seen it nor plan on seeing it I have no opinion on it.

I now as an adult refuse to support any product by this man because of his ideology. It is a hurtful ideology that wishes to segregate and drive a wedge within people. All for this man's ideology thought up by a conman we should separate and shun a part of our society. Screw that.

My opinion of his products are wholly separate from his ideology. My decision to watch the movie he will receive money from for ever single ticket bought is a wholly different matter from whether I think it's any good.

To go back to the previous analogy if Beethoven was a Neo-nazi in present day and engaged in activities to classify Jews as second rate citizens politically I would boycott his work.

I could think it is a brilliant artistic piece, I even play the piano and love to perform his works, but I will not allow myself to financially support a man who stands for an idea and an ideology that directly opposes every single one of mine.

This makes a bit more sense, but I still think you should be able to separate your opinions on the author and his past activities from whether or not the movie should be seen or the books read. If you just plain don't like Ender's Game on its own merits, more power to you. The author himself has come out and said he's laying down the pitchfork and backing off. I can understand if you don't believe him but he may very well be speaking truthfully.

Well darn, I wish I knew about this crap before I bought the first four Ender books. I guess I'll read them since they're already paid for, but this tool's not getting any more of my money. Guess this is another name to add to the bigot boycott banner.

Oh, so Orson Scott Card is a bigot AND a sniveling coward? Lovely.

Fuck him and his movie. He'll never get a cent from me.

This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. "The author is an asshole so his works are worthless." Walt Disney was a raging Anti-Semite, are you going to sit there and tell me all of his classic works are shit based on his beliefs? What about Henry Ford, another man who also held anti-Semitic beliefs and yet is heralded as an American hero for making the automobile cheaper and more affordable to the working class?

 

[TheDeadlights]

i hope the ' death of the author' happens more then figuratively this time.

Oh come on, don't stoop to that level. You cant beat hate with more hate.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Orson Scott Card asking for tolerance. This is the most hilarious thing i've heard all day.

 

[Klitch]

This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. "The author is an asshole so his works are worthless." Walt Disney was a raging Anti-Semite, are you going to sit there and tell me all of his classic works are shit based on his beliefs? What about Henry Ford, another man who also held anti-Semitic beliefs and yet is heralded as an American hero for making the automobile cheaper and more affordable to the working class?

I never said his works of fiction are bad. I bought the first four books because I've heard that at least the first one is a great work of science fiction and I figured I'd read it before seeing the movie (which I won't be watching now). What I did say is that if this guy is fine with labeling an entire group of people as a lower order of humanity and undeserving of basic human rights based solely on their genetic sexual predilections, then I'm fine with not giving him any more of my money. Honestly, between him and me, I think I come out as just slightly more reasonable.

Edit: The fact that he used the whole "be tolerant of my intolerance" BS argument only adds fuel to my righteous fire .

 

[1337mokro]

Message below is the version I received in my inbox.

I think you're mislabeling who the naive, ignorant consumer is here. People who let the political agenda of an author color their opinion of a recognized classic work of literature to the point of boycotting adaptations despite the two having no relation to each other are the ones who need to open their eyes.

Really because I think you sounded like the stupid uninformed customer here, one that doesn't even understand how royalties work. You also failed to separate two issues that are not mutually exclusive.

Opinion and Support.

I don't think Ender's game is all that good. I thought that back when I was a teenager reading this in the library. That is my opinion about the product itself. The movie looks interesting, it has allot going for it. However seeing as I have not seen it nor plan on seeing it I have no opinion on it.

I now as an adult refuse to support any product by this man because of his ideology. It is a hurtful ideology that wishes to segregate and drive a wedge within people. All for this man's ideology thought up by a conman we should separate and shun a part of our society. Screw that.

My opinion of his products are wholly separate from his ideology. My decision to watch the movie he will receive money from for ever single ticket bought is a wholly different matter from whether I think it's any good.

To go back to the previous analogy if Beethoven was a Neo-nazi in present day and engaged in activities to classify Jews as second rate citizens politically I would boycott his work.

I could think it is a brilliant artistic piece, I even play the piano and love to perform his works, but I will not allow myself to financially support a man who stands for an idea and an ideology that directly opposes every single one of mine.

This makes a bit more sense, but I still think you should be able to separate your opinions on the author and his past activities from whether or not the movie should be seen or the books read. If you just plain don't like Ender's Game on its own merits, more power to you. The author himself has come out and said he's laying down the pitchfork and backing off. I can understand if you don't believe him but he may very well be speaking truthfully.

What the fuck was that? Did you just put YOUR name above what I wrote?

Screw you mate, who are you to so blatantly misrepresent me, putting your words literally under my name.

You can go watch this movie and have fun completely closing your eyes to the fact that this man belongs to a religious groups that openly denounces a section of the population as abominations. A group which until recently segregated their churches based on skin colour because they view black people as creatures of sin, even now some of their churches do so. You can close your eyes to his past activities where he campaigned for inequality and to make homosexuality illegal again. Not to mention his two faced weak sauced "Hey I changed really, honestly guys, I'm totally cool with gays now" announcement. You can close your eyes to the fact that part of the money you paid for the movie will eventually go on to harm others.

You can be that ignorant consumer that praises his unmarked 70% sawdust chicken burger.

However do that in your own words. Don't steal mine and use them to defend your position.

Edit: Redact the earlier rage, the message I received in my inbox had the names switched around. You fixed it in editing, so my point about the misquoting mute. The point big piece of text is still relevant though.

 

[bravetoaster]

It screams of people looking for a cause to rally around no matter how ultimately trivial.

I don't think you could have missed my point more completely.

I'll give it one more shot:

People--at least ones with the capacity for emotion--will be influenced by their emotions. Sometimes, a person's emotions (positive or negative), will influence their perceptions of the work or products produced by or associated with a particular person. This is not something you can change. If you don't understand how people could operate in such a way, you may never, but that's how many (or even most) humans work.

How very irrational and illogical.

Like I said, if you don't have the same emotional capacity that most people have, that won't make sense to you. Emotion is irrational and illogical and is of considerable evolutionary value. You can dismiss that, or--I'd recommend--archive that somewhere in your mind so you understand, on some level, why people act and react the way they do to things.

 

[Pickapok]

I never said his works of fiction are bad. I bought the first four books because I've heard that at least the first one is a great work of science fiction and I figured I'd read it before seeing the movie (which I won't be watching now). What I did say is that if this guy is fine with labeling an entire group of people as a lower order of humanity and undeserving of basic human rights based solely on their genetic sexual predilections, then I'm fine with not giving him any more of my money. Honestly, between him and me, I think I come out as just slightly more reasonable.

Fair enough. I just think people should decide what they spend their money on based on the quality of the product rather than the flaws of the creator.