Epic Mickey: Warren Spector's Epic Gamble

Deacon Cole

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The game you've described sounds like a NES title. I'm not sure about the moral choice thing with the paint and thinner. It seems simplistic and such moral choice systems never really amount to anything. The problem here is that it's fairly cut and dried which is good and which is evil. And the thinner sounds like it doesn't do much except allow you to skip much of the game. In fact, several of the choices you've shown were just avoiding playing the game. How is not playing a reasonable choice for a game?

It could be I just do not understand and would need to actually play the game to get it. But I suspect that this game will be ripped several new assholes over these so-called innovations not being all that innovative.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Ne1butme said:
Russ Pitts said:
Too much choice is a scary thing, capable of paralyzing people. (As I learned to my chagrin on Deus Ex!)
I see that as more a problem with the player than the game. But I'm not a game designer. I'm a player, so i'm going to criticize my own contribution to the experience before i would criticize the developer. Warren has the exact opposite reaction. He's never going to criticize the players.

It's an interesting duality. If i am face with a game with a lot of choices, and i choose the boring path, then that's my own fault. I see more choice as a virtue. If i can't step up and play an exciting game, then perhaps i'm not worthy of the experience.
One could just as easily argue that if the boring path exists in the first place, then it was the developer's fault for putting it there. After-all, you shouldn't be faced with the choices of "fun" and "not fun" when playing a medium that's specifically meant to be fun.

Anyway, I don't think that's what he was referring to so-much as he was also probably talking about how Deus Ex had a blinding array of abilities to upgrade. Sure as a veteran gamer you would have a better idea of what to shoot for in a game like that, but try to remember that not everyone has been gaming for 10+ years, or even 5+ years.

Mind that I love a complex game. However, the more complicated a game gets, the more narrow its target audience will be, since some people don't want to have to put that much thought and effort into their gaming.
 

Iron Lightning

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Well, this is quite a nice story, but I'm afraid I just can't work up any excitement for a Micky Mouse game. I'll keep an open mid regardless, but just be aware that we might be entering Molyneux territory, just a precaution.
 

Roboto

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dudeman0001 said:
"Spector is referring to the Uncanny Valley effect, in which attempts to create realistic representations of people backfire, causing those who view the simulacrum to recoil in horror at the lifelessness of a seemingly life-like being."

Is that why The Sims creep me out so much?
The opposite is why every moment with human interaction in HL2 is simply amazing and why certain parts of the game are heartbreaking/warming.
 

Luke Cartner

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As great as it is to hear that a developer is focusing on graphic related issues, hasn't the whole your actions impact the world around you been done alot already? (The worst implementation has to be Silent Hill: The Room.
And Annoyed would the developers be that scribble naughts beat them to the punch with the whole drawing thing (yes I get that they are very different games, still...)

Oh well..
 

latenightapplepie

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This game may be the reason I finally buy a Wii. Great article by the way. I knew a little of Warren Spector before this, but clearly not enough to merit how great a game designer he seems to be.

Also, as an aside, I'd really like it if whoever gets the privilege of reviewing this game to do their best to avoid the temptation to use a certain meme [http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-y-is-x-redundant-adjectives-are-redundant] to succinctly summarise the game. I know the temptation is so very strong.
 

LewsTherin

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i've got to dust off the old Wii for this one, methinks. Propers to Mr. Spector for having the stones to go through with this.
 

PlasticTree

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A nice article, and I can't wait for this game, but to be honest: I found this article a bit too long for a preview on the internet. I'm definitely not scared of words (I've been visiting the Escapist regularly for about two years now), and five pages can be suitable for some articles, but this time it was kind of a drag. Not because it wasn't interesting, but because I don't want to read five pages on a screen about a game that hasn't been released yet. Might be something to keep in mind with future previews/interviews/background stories.
 

ThrashJazzAssassin

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There are a couple of things I don't understand about this article. Firstly, both Russ Pitts' description of Deus Ex - "overly complex, deeply flawed" - and Warren Spector's comments about the game cast it in a rather negative light. I hope this doesn't come across as a fanboy's knee-jerk reaction - much as I love the game, I can view it objectively - but this is genuinely not an attitude to the game that I've come across before, and I wouldn't expect to see it seemingly taken for granted by author and subject in this way. I'd have liked this opinion to be justified in the article, albeit briefly, since overall the game has garnered an overwhelmingly favourable reaction.

The comment on the complexity is certainly a valid criticism, but I don't know anyone who would consider "flawed" a key word in describing the game - sure, it has flaws, but they're not a mjaor part of the experience of playing the game. Some flaws are just due to the technological limitations of the time, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the game that can't be overlooked in light of its many excellent aspects. Spector himself criticises the apparently excessive amount of choice the game provides the player with - the very thing that people love most about the game. I know that some people will disagree, but so many people do love the game; why does Spector appear to have a slightly embarrassed, well-at-least-we-tried attitude towards Deus Ex? Did he not notice all those awards?

Secondly, I started reading the article under the impression that the way consequences and tasks are handled in Epic Mickey would be new and interesting, but I didn't see any evidence of that. Indeed, the ice-cream-or-flowers quest is a classic example of a standard video game task, with the added bonus of being a complete no-brainer; no one is going to give the guy the wrong gift - and pass up on the reward - unless they're so bored with the game that they can't be bothered to do a longer fetch quest, in which case the game has bigger problems. If you choose the flowers you are rewarded with an in-game item, the satisfaction of making the "better" choice and the gameplay experience of actually going to get the flower, which you would hope would be fun. Saying that the player will have to decide whether to lose out on the reward or give up a load of their time looking for the flower doesn't constitute an satisfying choice; if having to invest time and effort in the game is a negative, the game has failed. Even if they didn't know in advance that there would be a reward for giving him the flowers, I suspect most players would instinctively choose that option in the hope/expectation that there would be some positive consequence, unless they didn't particularly care about accumulating rewards and were going for the comedy option.

That said, the paint-versus-thinner tactics and the way choices have a cumulative effect on the world and characters around you are both good ideas, and I'm interested in the result. I just don't think this article delivered what it promised.
 

oranger

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And of course, if one never liked mickey mouse, then this game looks like junk.
I know I know, vote with my wallet.

But mickey mouse? wtf? couldn't Mr. Spector be working on something a little more interesting than that?

edit: And Deus Ex being flawed and overly complex? no, I don't think so. It was just complex enough. Hell, I would have preferred some sort of freeform object based gun modding system instead of a purely number based system.
 

Russ Pitts

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latenightapplepie said:
Also, as an aside, I'd really like it if whoever gets the privilege of reviewing this game to do their best to avoid the temptation to use a certain meme [http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-y-is-x-redundant-adjectives-are-redundant] to succinctly summarise the game. I know the temptation is so very strong.
What if we just call it "cinematic and compelling [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-news-network/1047-ROJO]" then drop the microphone and walk offstage?
 

latenightapplepie

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Russ Pitts said:
What if we just call it "cinematic and compelling [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-news-network/1047-ROJO]" then drop the microphone and walk offstage?
Haha.

Only if your reviewing standards plummet dramatically between now and September. Which I could never imagine happening, of course. :)
 

Dr. wonderful

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"I hold up my own career as an example of the ability to do original work in someone else's sandbox"

Isn't that what we Fanfic authors been saying for years?

Well it good he has that mental focus, I only seen a few good Disney games over the years...That and I want to add something to my Wii collection.

Oh, did we ever get to see the Evil rat mickey? I want him as an Avatar.
 

tthor

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i normally hate Disney,(for their monopolistic and horrid attitude towards anything that can make them money), but this game actually sounds like a lot of fun! not only that but its on actually on a console I own =D i think i'm going to get this game
 

The Random One

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I'm looking forward to this despite everything. Spector seems to be one of the few people who clearly see where video gaming has to go to.

Also, I'm really amused at all the people angry because Deus Ex was described as 'flawed'. Apparently a game remaining relevant ten years after it came out and becoming one of gaming's major landmarks isn't enough, people must never say anything bad about it, ever.
 

new_age_reject

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Well written and engaging essay firstly.
I think Warren Spector is one of the few games designers/writers/whatever in the business with his head screwed on. He has an impressive resume and when he talks, you can really hear his love for and his massive knowledge of gaming, from the actual game to the theological aspects of gaming as a whole.
I am personally really looking forward to Epic Mickey, I genuinely think it will live up to the hype and speculation.