ESA, IGDA: Threats, Personal Attacks Have No Place in Games

V da Mighty Taco

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Zaydin said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Nimcha said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).
Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.
It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.
Yet for all their claims of wanting to fight corruption in gaming journalism, Gaters (I refuse to call them Gamers) were silent when Gamespot canned Jeff Gerstmann for panning Kane and Lynch.
First off, citation needed. Iirc, that whole ordeal created a pretty big shitstorm that many gamers were pissed off about. Can you actually prove that even most people in GG, let alone all, both knew about that incident when it happened and didn't say a word about it?

Second, even if someone committed a wrong in the past or are even full-on evil, that doesn't mean that they can't be right about something. In other words, whether or not they stood up for Gerstmann all those years ago doesn't actually prove them wrong about journalism being fucked now.

Third, the past cannot be changed. People who just now are understanding the issues with the game's industry cannot retroactively go back and fix the fuck-ups of the past. They can only fix the present, which is what many of them are trying to do.
 

SilverHunter

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Trishbot said:
SilverHunter said:
People on both sides of the fence for the "GamerGate" have said before that part of the reason this has blown up into the beast it is was because websites were actively stifling conversation. It added fuel to the fires of conspiracy talk, and when outside political forces started jumping in on the bandwagon, it got out of control. Or did you forget who originally came up with the name "GamerGate"?
It blew up in the beast it did because a bitter, jealous, angry ex went to a group of trolls, made up a bunch of stories about her (many outright disproven), and said trolls went on the warpath, organizing and going after people so barely even related to the concept of "journalistic integrity" that it's almost laughable.

Adam Baldwin started the name, but even he didn't have all the info at the time, and even his criticism of the industry are almost barely related to the harassment and vitriolic environment stemming from the movement now.

Even if it DID start out as something positive, it's no longer that way. Or do you also believe the swastika is still a Buddhist good luck symbol? When a good cause is corrupted and perverted beyond repair, it's a better use of time and energy to abandon a silly, pointless hashtag or title and just, well, be a decent human being without a mascot to stand behind.

I've been promoting reform in the game industry long before Adam Baldwin said something catchy. I'll do it long after the "movement" fades from recent memory. I don't need a hashtag to be a decent human being. I won't was my time and defend a hashtag from haters, or to spend more time defending a hashtag from criticism than actually talking about the issues I care about, or to use a hashtag to stand up for the oppressed and victimized, or glean my sense of pride as a gamer from something a someone somewhere wrote in generalities. I've been doing this stuff for years without it. Why do I need it now?
First off, before you start rambling and copy-pasting entire paragraphs from your other posts try and read a little more than your own narrow-minded view. I was speaking specifically to Zaydin's comment and his comment alone, I've already said my piece on this general mess above. Both sides have disgusting individuals participating in death threats and wholly uncivil behavior, and while you claim you won't waste time trying to defend one group, you seem more than eager to defend the other. That by its very definition is 'bigotry'.

I'm not making any claim on what some ex said, nor did I ever state Adam Baldwin knew anything about this other than seeing an easy way to espouse his own political views into something that did not need it.

I'm also not so naive or idiotic to try and make an argument about what the German Swastikah means as compared to the cultures it originally came from. It's horribly pathetic, on your part, to try for such a weak argument. But if you want to go that route, would you call a practitioner of either system of belief a Jew-hating white supremacist for having the it painted on their door? Any decent human being certainly wouldn't I hope.
 

Megalodon

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marioandsonic said:
The ongoing threats, including a shooting threat at USU which led feminist critic Anita Sarkeesian to cancel her speech, as well as threats that have led to independent game developer Brianna Wu leaving her home, have occurred during the movement GamerGate. Both Sarkeesian and Wu have alleged GamerGate was involved in the threats.
I haven't been following news about GamerGate (mainly because if I did, my brain would start to hurt), but were either of these threats proven to have come from GamerGate, or people associated with it?
Don't know about Wu. But the Sarkeesian threat sent to USU, which they made public, contained no references to gamergate. Of course, I've already seen this used to show that gamergate had to be involved, as they 'have a policy to not mention gamergate in official correspondence', because that totally isn't a fallacious piece of circular thinking.

The only association to gamergate with regards to the latest round of Sarkeesian drama is an unsupported tweet from Sarkeesian herself, and is therefore hardly a bastion of impartial reporting.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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IamLEAM1983 said:
I would agree, it's not fair of me to point fingers at anyone. However, I haven't seen that many indications of 4Chan's own members trying to take a stand by distancing themselves from the more toxic members in their group

8chan (because people aren't using 4chan anymore) bans people who post this kind of stuff.


And their community doesn't like it either.

Also after seeing how Brianna Wu magically "found" someone doxxing her about 5 minutes after it happened, she's got to be the worst person involved in this whole mess. I agree that people were being idiots when they accused Sarkeesain of making up the threats against her, but now Wu is actually validating them
 

Garlador

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SilverHunter said:
First off, before you start rambling and copy-pasting entire paragraphs from your other posts try and read a little more than your own narrow-minded view.
Wow. I'm just skimming this and this caught my eye. I can just tell already this response is going to be totally sensible, fair, unbiased, and based in pure rationale and not impassioned zealotry. Let's see if my prediction holds true...


I was speaking specifically to Zaydin's comment and his comment alone, I've already said my piece on this general mess above. Both sides have disgusting individuals participating in death threats and wholly uncivil behavior, and while you claim you won't waste time trying to defend one group, you seem more than eager to defend the other. That by its very definition is 'bigotry'.
Er, I hate to be a Grammar Nazi (now THERE were some right proper bigots), but "defending a group from harassment" didn't constitute bigotry. Here, here, I can help out.

bigot (n) -a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

I'm not seeing this from the former comments. Defending a platform is not bigotry, as the individual you have utterly dismissed and accused of "rambling" and being "narrow-minded" (that's a rather bigoted statement, now that I think about it) seems to be saying they stand fully behind the morals of so-called Gaters, but simply believes the hashtag they rally behind isn't worth defending. Makes sense to me, like saying "oh yeah, I totally agree with that Republican on this matter... but I'm not going to call myself a Republican because we agree on that one topic." That actually seems very fair and open-minded.

I'm not making any claim on what some ex said, nor did I ever state Adam Baldwin knew anything about this other than seeing an easy way to espouse his own political views into something that did not need it.
But the claims that some ex said are largely involved in the current state of affairs. It's not sensible to dismiss that element of the equation when that very thing kickstarted a large portion of this wonderfully wacky debate. And I don't see anyone, anywhere, saying you stated Adam Baldwin knew what he was talking about. But both of these are elements to a larger picture, and that picture is incomplete if you toss them out. They're certainly worth commenting on.

I'm also not so naive or idiotic to try and make an argument about what the German Swastikah means as compared to the cultures it originally came from. It's horribly pathetic, on your part, to try for such a weak argument. But if you want to go that route, would you call a practitioner of either system of belief a Jew-hating white supremacist for having the it painted on their door? Any decent human being certainly wouldn't I hope.
Godwin's Law notwithstanding, it's not "pathetic" because you aren't giving a counter-argument other than dismissal. But, sure, I'll bite on this. If you were in America and saw someone with a swastika proudly painted on their door, YES, the associated feelings, culture, and history of that symbol is deeply, irrecoverably rooted in bigotry, hatred, oppression, intolerance, persecution, and antisemitism. I mean, holy God, man, the symbol is OUTLAWED in the nation of Germany for a very, VERY good reason, so, no, you can't just paint one on your door and expect all that negative history to go away. Any "decent" human being would be understanding that using that symbol in this culture is highly insensitive and offensive and would, hopefully, opt not to parade it around. The symbol is a stigma to billions of people; nobody can claim ignorance of that.

And that, I think, is where I agree with posts earlier in the thread: GamerGate has become stigmatized. Is that fair? Hardly. But an intelligent, decent human being who genuinely does care about the industry would abandon associating with it as it grows more and more synonymous with hatred and intolerance day by day. Why is that name, GamerGate, so important that people would rather go down with the ship after it was sabotaged from within than sensibly jump into a lifeboat and move on (maybe to a better ship)? This ship has so many holes, you can't plug them all fast enough before more spring up. I mean, by all means, stand by your hashtags. Nobody can stop you. I just think it's tragically humorous to see so many care more about what their movement is called instead of doing anything about what their movement represents. Talk is so much cheaper than action.

Yes, boo hoo, the other side has been oppressed and persecuted too. That's not what this conversation is about. The conversation is about whether the GamerGate movement is too toxic to do any good at all, no matter how victimized people are on both sides. Is it too toxic? Let's have that discussion. If you think not, why do you believe that? How do you intend to change public perception of the hashtag group? What are you actively doing to promote its original goals? Who is your leadership? Who is demanding accountability? Who is going to the press? What plan does anyone have in place? Why is that a good plan? What is being done to root out the bad members? Is there even a way to police the members? Why isn't the group going after the hundreds of other more urgent problems in the game industry, such as Youtube buyouts, pervasive game DRM, mistreatment of video game developers and unacceptable crunch periods, console exclusivity backroom deals, unoptimized PC ports, broken game launches, game industry advertisements (hey, I notice Alien: Isolation is paying for the Escapist's web banners currently. How can we trust their review to be objective?), broken metacritic scaling ties to developer bonuses, and, YES, female developer and journalist harassment as a constant, unsolved problem?

The fact that THIS is what's getting people so worked up boggles my mind. I've been following game journalism since the 70s, and, trust me, it is SO MUCH BETTER than it ever was back then. As fondly as Nintendo Power is remembered, it was a Nintendo-published magazine that served as a mouthpiece to promote Nintendo-branded video games on Nintendo systems. We have more nonbiased, non-industry critics and reviewers now than we ever have in the history of the medium, and yet "journalistic integrity" has become this butchered rallying call over so many other damning industry practices.

If even half the energy spent here was directed at things like on-disc DLC, online passes, misleading E3 trailers and demos, broken game releases, game homogenization and distillation, microtransactions, F2P feature creep, forced and unwanted social elements, paywalls for story content, pre-order retail exclusives, console parity, annual game serialization, minority protagonist suppression, game piracy, region-locking, or graphics over gameplay, the whole industry would be a much better place.

But we get impassioned en masse over some of the most trivial, pointless things instead. Boggling.
 

Baresark

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This is an open letter to GG -

I have a proposition for every good GG supporter:

You should form an organization that does not have a policy that anyone can claim to be a member. Have a public roster (without aliases) and a mission statement.

In the end, the fact that any Tom, Dick and Harry can say they are affiliated with GG hurts the very core of your movement. The other thing that hurts it is the fact that some of the people who blindly stand against you are illiterate jackasses on a witch hunt and are intent on making sure that every single bad thing that happens in the industry is blamed on you. Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and all of their "Journalist" cohorts are working in a concerted effort to turn the industry away from you. And why not. The corrupt journalists of sites like Kotaku, Polygon, Gamasutra, and RPS have made sure that they have used their sway to make sure you are completely demonized because you stand for truth in the industry when they only want to editorialize every piece of information. They want to control public opinion about products that are coming and make sure they fully endorse a crony system. The people who claim affiliation are your biggest problem though. They would have very little evidence if people out there didn't claim affiliation in the same breath they have threatened or bullied someone.

Also, anonymity has it's place, but it only hurts you in this situation. They aren't standing against a group of people who have represented themselves and their grievances. They are standing against a faceless,nameless mass of people who let a minority of people who claim affiliation decide how the public perceives you.

Just think on and consider it. Fully public roster of real people with a mission statement that can't be appended by everyone who walks through the door. Full accountability for all of it's members. One thing about the people standing against you is they all have faces and names, which gives them legitimacy. You want your grievances heard, you'll consider my words.
 

Baresark

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Nimcha said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Nimcha said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).
Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.
It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.
No, it's not. There's no cause and there's no way to determine if people actually believe the same as what you believe.

It's like Occupy all over again.
I have to intervene on this idea. There certainly is a cause. The Anti-GG crowd always makes these accusations and they are wrong. They are very public about their cause, but people choose to selectively ignore it because their cause is not convenient or not the conversation you want to have.

Though you can argue that people seem to want to make it about other things, and rightly so. But if you look at the core of GG on any message board, you see a clear cause.
 

Baresark

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Zaydin said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Nimcha said:
V da Mighty Taco said:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).
Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.
It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.
Yet for all their claims of wanting to fight corruption in gaming journalism, Gaters (I refuse to call them Gamers) were silent when Gamespot canned Jeff Gerstmann for panning Kane and Lynch.
Ummm, that happened long before "Gater's" were a thing. Hardly relevant now, is it.
 

Atmos Duality

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Trishbot said:
When the tide is OVERWHELMINGLY against your platform and associate it with the worst types of internet miscreants, do you REALLY think you can turn public's tide back in its favor and have a legit conversation on "journalistic integrity"?
Ayup.
And thus, the smear campaign completes itself, just as I thought it might a month ago.
Nobody really won with GamersGate...except the trolls. Because the trolls were the only ones with nothing to lose.

Everyone is too pissed off to engage each other, and those that are trying are just being drowned out by the droves stupid reactionary gobshite.

Maybe, just maybe, this fiasco will serve as an example of what happens when you try to engage the trolls on their own terms, at their own game (that goes for all assholes involved; the more obscene GamersGaters, SJWs and those journalists that declared war on the gamer identity; I damn them all).

Or maybe not; I'm thinking that it will take some higher powers wielding bigger sticks stepping in to change that attitude, and when those kinds of people get involved I guarantee that NOBODY will be happy with the results.
 

circularlogic88

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Oct 9, 2010
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Trishbot said:
circularlogic88 said:
Lara Croft is an emotionally complex character now? lol okay.
Why, yes, she is. Times changed, and she changed with it. I'm VERY happy with the result.
Some people are really easily satisfied with hack writing I guess. Its the same reason Twilight and 50 Shades of Greg are New York Times bestsellers, no account for taste.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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One day the comment section will be a fun place again, where people don't ignore points they can't respond to, and aren't going ballistic at opposing viewpoints. One day.

OT: I'll say what I've said for most of this fiasco: Threatening and Harassment is bad, so is being a lying conniving wanker. Honest discussion and criticism is good, so is transparent and honest journalism. I think 90% of the people in this forum, hopefully higher, can agree with these two statements.

There are very few people dipping their fingers in this and NOT taking a side.
 

Zontar

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Baresark said:
You should form an organization that does not have a policy that anyone can claim to be a member. Have a public roster (without aliases) and a mission statement.
Given what has happened to many of the people who have their real names known for supporting the movement, that will never even be considered. It would be doing most of the work the doxxers who are against GG for them. We allow all to be a part of the movement (though we do try to police out own if we catch someone harassing someone else) because we want as many people on our side as possible. This isn't just a debate, this is a consumer revolt, and as it stands it's working, so why do a radical change which would massively cut down our numbers in a means which leaves the few how remain open to the unopposed harassment that has been rampant by those opposed to GG?

It's a terrible idea is what I'm saying.
 

Zontar

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an874 said:
Thanks #Gamergate! Because of you, the vile SOPA pushing lobbyists of the ESA are now the heroes in this story, but what could we really expect from the gaming community's Tea Party?: http://www.motivationals.org/demotivational-posters/demotivational-poster-15177.jpg
Oh for fuck sake, there's harassment coming from both sides in this, the only difference is that unlike those opposed to GG, WE actually police our own and try to pot a stop to it when we see it instead of saying shit like "those subhumans deserve it" and other statements taken right out of the fascist handbook. If anyone is the tea party of the gaming community in all this, it's those against GG, of that there is no debate or question.
 

Thoughtful_Salt

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IamLEAM1983 said:
And yet, nobody on the more contentious side of the GamerGate fiasco seems particularly worried. I've seen academic papers related to game theory that had the misfortune of being penned by female writers, and who were almost successfully contaminated by an influx of idiots filling the online questionnaire's fields with witty banter along the lines of "Suck my dick" or "Get back in the kitchen, ho!"

And why? Because the GamerGaters have allowed morons like 4Chan's b-tards to pollute the debate. Dig around and you'll see that a few of them like to engineer situations in which they act as both perpetrator and would-be savior. One hand doxxes and actively threatens, the other creates iconography for the Feminist arm of the movement.

As much as I'm a fan of unregulated spaces open to discussion, that approach needs to be punished. Nobody should get to act as both abuser and rescuer, as that's not only illogical but also puerile.

At some point, the so-called lulz have to stop, and consequences have to be made tangible. I can't wait for the round of prosecutions to start scorching minors or immature adults who thought that horsing around on an imageboard was without consequences whatsoever.
I respectfully ask how on earth do you propose we stop those toxic elements when they can post from anywhere, with easily made accounts and spew whatever they want? From what I've seen the movement has actually been pretty good (and getting better) at moderating and helping to remove those comments and toxic people :https://www.facebook.com/groups/479630672174115/530500160420499/?comment_id=530507480419767&notif_t=like

Holding back people like that is like trying to hold back a flood with your bare hands, all you can do is reduce the damage and slowly repair it.

And no I will not accept "Well the whole movement is tainted and should abandon itself". When the movement finally appears to have a solid base of support and clear, reachable goals, it makes about as much sense as the Republican party renaming itself because of the Tea Party (which You'll note is a fringe element of the GOP). A good cause is worth fighting for.
 

Karadalis

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And here we see more game developers to scared to say what they really think because of the SJWs and just preaching the gospel that gets dictated cause they fear for their jobs.

Miss Sarkesian so far has not shown anything that suggests that the person that threatened to shoot up the university is actually a spokesperson for gamergate. And even if he claimed he was from gamgergate, the fact that gamergate constantly calls out to not harass the other side, to stop these childish attempts at fanning the flames gets completly ignored in favour of a "big bad wolf" narrative that makes corrupt websites like kotaku look like knights in shining armor.


These people will aparantly happily bent over and have their work get called mysoginistic, sexist and rape culture supporting, because they are to afraid to defend their own work because of a bunch of twitter crybabies and the gaming media that is actually loosing meaning every day and even today only survives because of certain content creators that really arent games journalists and more like TGWTG crewalikes bringing people to their sites.

Also they completly forget to mention the very real and actually well documented harassment that GG advocates have to face every day. Harassment that has lead to people loosing their jobs.

Meanwhile miss Sarkesian after suposedly receiving those threat emails herselfe is bitching about that no one had informed her about these threats from university sides... and cancelled her speach because the police wouldnt establish air port security like measures to protect HER sorry ass.

Who does she think she is? Some high profile politician? The president of the US of A?

No one announces an amok run days and weeks in advance, if there is an announcement its going online right before the actual deed is done... this whole scenario is disgusting and shows how far enrooted this SJW problem really is in games development and how far apart game devs really have become from their actual audience.

Because listening to the people who are actually involved in shady businesses and backroom deals with the very people they are supposed to report on is more important then the people that actually play your games and make sure that you have a job to go to the next day.


Incidantly this is exactly why i was against that hashtag from the very beginning. Before the hashtag came up it was "gamers"

Now its "gamergaters" and since not everyone identifies with that stupid hashtag they can divide and conquer. While people where rightously pissed off about that barrage of "gamers are dead" articles... now they themselves can claim they dont belong to "that group" cause hey.. its gamergaters right? Its not gamers anymore... all the evil in gaming culture was condensed in GG so since im not part of it i dont belong to the badguys right?

Stupid hashtag activism...
 

Baresark

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Zontar said:
Baresark said:
You should form an organization that does not have a policy that anyone can claim to be a member. Have a public roster (without aliases) and a mission statement.
Given what has happened to many of the people who have their real names known for supporting the movement, that will never even be considered. It would be doing most of the work the doxxers who are against GG for them. We allow all to be a part of the movement (though we do try to police out own if we catch someone harassing someone else) because we want as many people on our side as possible. This isn't just a debate, this is a consumer revolt, and as it stands it's working, so why do a radical change which would massively cut down our numbers in a means which leaves the few how remain open to the unopposed harassment that has been rampant by those opposed to GG?

It's a terrible idea is what I'm saying.
Then at very least you should probably have a website with an unofficial roster of aliases and a mission statement so the BS about it not being about anything can be stopped. You can also use it to officially condone things that are not agreed to such as harassment. I mean, the main thing is that all the people who get attacked in the name of GG have real names and are publicly known, so it looks like a nameless faceless group is attacking them wholesale. And at least with an unofficial roster of aliases, people can look and see if a person is affiliated. And if a person who is affiliated threatens someone, the group as a whole can disavow their actions as not part of the group.

My point is that you let the media control your public image by just not having a few things that have iron meaning.
 

Kameburger

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Does anyone not see how stupid this whole thing is? My god, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. GamerGate what ever it is, is clearly not some organized group of people, it's a sentiment that means different things to different people. Trying to stick them all into one box simply empowers them by making a whole group of people guilty by association and than angry. I've heard plenty of GamerGate people insist that they are firmly against threats and violence, hell they practically have to write it before every sentence they speak.

Also all this talk about ethics in game journalism really is just lip service BS as well. There is no code of ethics for people who are essentially bloggers that are second to the punch. This isn't exactly investigative reporting, and bias is as much a necessity it seems as the word game or movie when describing most of the sites gamer gate is against. I mean a review of a game is an opinion and it's up to you as an individual to decide who you can and can't trust. I wish I could say we as a community are capable of rising above all this but in reality we probably aren't. It's all downhill from here.

Also I'm well done with giving anyone my sympathies. Getting threatened is awful yes, but the twisting spin that people keep putting on this is, while not equatable, still sickening in itself. I'm truly sick to death of this discussion, god I used to read game news to get away from the republican and democrat BS but now Fox news and MSNBC seem to have more integrity than the full throated shit flingers. Even writing this I can already see the slew of comments directed at me, trying to put me on one side or the other of this argument. But I'm sick of having my sympathies played to, my intelligence insulted, my identity questioned, all from people who at the end of every diatribe, stretch out their hand and ask me for money.

Anita doesn't do what she does for free, and I wonder if she gave that speaking fee back, considering that law enforcement had cleared the threat, and her final reason for leaving was an issue with the venues policy. She maybe a victim and I don't at all blame her for speaking out against those who threaten her, hell I've spoken out against them, you've spoken out against them, We've all spoken out against them.

Also I could care less about GamerGate because well frankly I believe the influence of game journalism only stretches as far as we let it, and YouTube is certainly proving my point there.

The percentage of women in games is a work place issue and should be tacked by employees in that industry. The perception of women as depicted in games themselves has actually changed quite a lot, and in entertainment in general there is a lot more entertainment targeting female audiences of all ages, and certainly much more than we give it credit for. I love how Anita Sarkeesian never once features her talking to any one else about her perceptions, never features any research in her videos aside from hearsay and cherry picked examples. You know everything that has nothing to do with the scientific method. Her videos should be called "Fem Frequency: One woman's perceived male dominated hellscape." Are there sexist depictions of Women in games stemming from way back? Yes. Should we be talking about it? Yes. But like politics, this has turned into a contest of who can talk the furthest down to each other, and I'm so tired of it. This is so exhausting and not helpful.

Every single public figure who enters this debate with seemingly the exception of Jim Sterling and Total Biscuit have done nothing but hurl insults at each other and have done their best to make sure as many by-standards are in the splash zone as possible. It's like watching two factions dressed in KKK outfits dance toward each other like idiots, fighting over which person it's the most morally OK to lynch.

I've unfollowed almost every Games personality on twitter because I could't take the constant stream of hate that flew around at every second of every day. God the debate over the Iraq War felt less contentious that this.

Are we really this petty? Are we really this shallow? Are we really all such giant babies that we can't seem to put two and two together and try to figure out the cause of these problems rather than star lobbing missiles at symptoms?
 

vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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I'd just like to leave this article by a self named critic of #GamerGate on the issue of harassment. To both sides who read this, enjoy and keep an open mind: https://storify.com/LadyFuzztail/gamergate-may-be-a-victim-of-a-false-flag-operati
 

Kameburger

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Apr 7, 2012
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Trishbot said:
It blew up in the beast it did because a bitter, jealous, angry ex went to a group of trolls, made up a bunch of stories about her (many outright disproven), and said trolls went on the warpath, organizing and going after people so barely even related to the concept of "journalistic integrity" that it's almost laughable.
Hey sorry i know you're in the middle of something heated but do you have a link to where these things were disproven? That changes a lot for me. I mean before I realized the entire human race was little more the the feces they excrete in their entirety, I did actually read that blog, and the chat logs seemed pretty convincing and to my knowledge the surrounding Nathan Grayson and the boss she slept with didn't deny it from my understanding. If you had some evidence to the contrary I would be interested to read that too.
 

Kameburger

Turtle king
Apr 7, 2012
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vallorn said:
I'd just like to leave this article by a self named critic of #GamerGate on the issue of harassment. To both sides who read this, enjoy and keep an open mind: https://storify.com/LadyFuzztail/gamergate-may-be-a-victim-of-a-false-flag-operati

Bob Chipman @the_moviebob
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@LadyFuzztail Here's something you should know about me: I "believe" that there is (almost) no such thing as a bad tactic - only bad TARGETS
I am done with bob... I followed him on twitter but by far has the most disgusting, vile, and ethically vacant garbage spewed from his brain lately that I... my god I almost want to cancel my pub club subscription over this. I think I'm gonna email the escapist and send a formal complain. This kind of ends justify the means approach to his intolerance can't keep being rewarded.