Escape to the Movies: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Apes With Machine Guns

MovieBob

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Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Apes With Machine Guns

One of the best action blockbusters this summer.

Watch Video
 

ZZoMBiE13

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"Esc-APE-ist"

Priceless.

I think I'll give this one a shot then. Thanks Bob. :)
 

karloss01

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The way you started the review out, it sounded like it was shit. good thing it doesn't sound like it.
 

Diddy_Mao

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Glad to hear this one is still good.

I've said before that I feel that great science fiction tends to use the fantastical elements of the setting to tell a modern story, or comment on modern social or ethical dilemma. Rise did a really great job with that and I have high hopes for Dawn.
 

youji itami

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Moviebob likes it SKIP!

In seriousness the set up for Apes is so, so stupid it makes Transformers look smart which is saying something (just going by the trailers).


As to Man of Steel and Doomsday you've lost that one Bob as Superman Returns showed people are not interested in a Superman film were Superman doesn't punch things.

And there just are not many DC villain's that are powerful and famous enough what with Darkseid being most likely used for a Justice League film.

Seriously Mongul and Despero or Toyman, Parasite and Metallo aren't going to be main film villains.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
Not really. I'm pretty sure that most of the emotional beats (Caesar watching a video of him and Franco with tears in his ape eyes) are pretty easily understood, and I think the rest of the plot holds up on it's own once you accept the basic premise.

OT: Surprised that Bob was so enthusiastic about the first one. I saw it at the time and thought it was good but not as good as Bob paints it. Maybe I'll go rewatch that.

Anyways, I just hope that at some point they do finally do the actual Planet of the Apes movie they are building to. I don't particularly want to see it, but I also don't want an endless stream of prequels.
 

Avaholic03

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Sleekit said:
i wanna see one where the apes get religion...
That would be practically impossible to pull off without being either condescending or preachy.
 

ClanCrusher

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Mar 11, 2010
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I'm still kinda on the fence about this movie. I didn't mind Rise so much, but when I first saw that image of all the apes on horseback dual wielding machine guns, two thoughts immediately came to mind.

First, I hope they have a lot of extra clips on hand because firing a weapon like that full-auto will probably get you a couple seconds of sustained fire.

Second, I am watching apes on horseback dual-wielding machine guns. Am I really supposed to be taking this movie seriously as your review implies? The sheer ridiculousness of it all makes me want to hold on to my money and wait for Guardians of the Galaxy. At least then I'll know that their over-the-top ridiculousness is by design.
 

vid87

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I saw the first one and, much as I enjoyed it and held some hope that the sequel would be good as well, something about it just being a sequel had me on the fence. Then Bob talks about the solid, character-driven points that elevate this above common action garbage and suddenly I'm legitimately excited. Thank you Bob for restoring my faith.
 

MovieBob

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MovieBob said:
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Apes With Machine Guns

One of the best action blockbusters this summer.

Watch Video
Does Bob read the comments? Hope so.

As someone who absolutely adored Rise I have to disagree somewhat.

I agree that movie certainly starts strong, particularly in establishing the comradery between Caesar and Koba all the while showing their distinct differences in how they wish to approach the issue of the humans; i.e. Caesar wanting to peacefully coexist with the humans (although making them perfectly aware he's willing to go to war) whereas Koba sees the humans as a potential future threat so its best to cull them now while they are weak.

Obviously Caesar's position is the more sensible one however Koba's certainly has merit to it and is in the interest of his fellow apes thus making him both a compelling and sympathetic antagonist.

Unfortunately this falls apart in the second half where Koba is completely vilified and it's gradually revealed that Koba "only cares for Koba" and begins murdering apes left and right (see last scene).

This would bother me less if it was just shoddy writing but unfortunately its clear the writers thought they were being clever making a crude pop-culture analysis of a famous historical event.

Of course the mere fact that the movie contains a scene with an ape riding a horse firing machine guns probably means it'll still be my favourite film of 2014.
 

SeeDarkly_Xero

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Ape with a machine gun? It's been done:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlk63g_young-justice-episode-13-part-1-2_shortfilms
Timestamp :52 | (and that's entirely coincidental and not at all any attempt to be clever)
 

Helen Walmsley

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I look forward to when this gets a UK release XD I really liked Rise so I'm glad to hear this reboot is continuing
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Avaholic03 said:
Sleekit said:
i wanna see one where the apes get religion...
That would be practically impossible to pull off without being either condescending or preachy.
Also, I think Rise already kinda put that possibility to bed. Religion rises out of questions regarding 'where did I come from?' and 'what is my purpose?' For Caesar, and for all of the other apes in this new canon, those questions already have definite answers (i.e. their intelligence, and by extension, they come from human science, which was trying to cure a human disease).

OT: When Bob spent almost half of the review talking about how good the LAST one was, I was certain that he was either building up to, or trying to put off the moment when, he had to admit that he found Dawn to not really measure up. I am very glad this wasn't the case, because golly if I hadn't been getting hyped for this! :D
 

RJ Dalton

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You know, it's funny, I've watched it several times and I still can't decide if I like Rise. I really like the parts of it that I like, but the parts I don't like really annoy me and I can't decide if what I like about it outweighs what I don't like. But in a way, I guess that's to the film's credit that even a movie curmudgeon like me is trying so hard not to like it and still can't say that he does.
I don't know if I'm going to see the new one in theaters or just wait for it to come out on DVD, though.
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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Do I need to have watched the first one to better understand this? Or does it work well on its own?
 

LaoJim

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
Anyways, I just hope that at some point they do finally do the actual Planet of the Apes movie they are building to. I don't particularly want to see it, but I also don't want an endless stream of prequels.
Actually I don't know. Tim Burton tried just do an reboot of the Planet of the Apes which failed miserably. We don't really need another one just telling about a bunch of astronauts (none of them Charlton Heston) crash landing on another "alien" planet only to discover... (spoiler to 50 year old movie deleted) After all the original is still pretty great even if the effects don't hold up.

I haven't seen the new Apes movie yet, but I'm happy with them doing their own thing of contemporary humans vs intelligent apes. If you look at the original movies they started with the end and then worked their way back through history to show how they got there (I think chronologically the order was something like 3,4,5,1,2), I think here is actually interesting to start at the beginning; at least makes it feel different.
 

daxterx2005

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So the new smash is going to have alternate costumes and not just pallet swaps. Thats awesome news.
 

Johnson McGee

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youji itami said:
In seriousness the set up for Apes is so, so stupid it makes Transformers look smart which is saying something (just going by the trailers).
I feel the same way about this movie series. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt in how the retrovirus works and what it does, the number of apes on the entire planet is significantly less than a million members among all species combined. Even if every ape on the planet got super intelligent and 99.9% of people got wiped out the apes would still be outnumbered 70:1.

And maybe I'm just getting old but machine-gun gorillas on horseback just looks silly rather than awesome.
 

Eddie the head

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Will everyone hate me if I point out that we all ready live on a plaint of the apes? In that we live on a plaint ruled by apes. Also shouldn't the humans try and go to a plain? I mean use your evolution to your advantage. Despite what the trailers for the last one said the human body is not "that" weak compared to other grate apes. It's different for sure, but that's what evolution dose.
 

Doug

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Hi all,

I'm thinking of going to see this, but neither me or my mate have seen Rise of the Planet of the Apes; I'd like to know, do we need to have seen the first movie for this to make sense or be good?
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
I would say it's less a matter of "have to", and more a matter of "should". Not because the story is necessarily going to make more sense, but because Rise was just an awesome movie. The first time Caesar speaks alone is worth the entire watch; there were literally people going "Whoa" in the theater when I saw it.

Edit: Also, as Bob pointed-out in this review: A gorilla beats-up a helicopter. Let me reiterate that; A gorilla beats-up a helicopter. That is not metaphorical, and it is an awesome scene.
 

Agayek

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Eddie the head said:
Despite what the trailers for the last one said the human body is not "that" weak compared to other grate apes. It's different for sure, but that's what evolution dose.
Eh, yes and no. Humans are, barring statistical outliers, significantly weaker (in terms of deliverable force) than most great apes. We simply don't have the musculoskeletal structure to support the same degree of raw strength.

What we do have (speaking in purely physical terms) over pretty much every other animal on Earth though is endurance. The human body is capable of going non-stop for upwards of 15 hours a day with no ill effects whatsoever, and we can work 40+ hours straight if we're willing to push it. There are very, very few animals that can match such a feat, and none of them are remotely near our size. That's one of the reasons why humanity evolved on the plains as a matter of fact; we could successfully hunt simply by walking our prey to death.
 

Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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I'm not sure if I'll like this one. I didn't like the one before it for one reason above all else: I hate movies whose whole plot is dependent on everyone being an idiot. Every major part of the plot was basically the direct result of someone being an idiot in action or inaction. For the protagonists father (can't even remember his name) that's one thing, given his illness, for everyone else (especially a genius scientist and the suit who hired him) that's much less so.

It really takes my enjoyment out of a movie when the character sticking to basic safety protocols or using elementary deductive reasoning stops everything from happening.

Also: killing Rodney, that's like 7 sins right there. Ding
 

youji itami

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Johnson McGee said:
youji itami said:
In seriousness the set up for Apes is so, so stupid it makes Transformers look smart which is saying something (just going by the trailers).
I feel the same way about this movie series. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt in how the retrovirus works and what it does, the number of apes on the entire planet is significantly less than a million members among all species combined. Even if every ape on the planet got super intelligent and 99.9% of people got wiped out the apes would still be outnumbered 70:1.

And maybe I'm just getting old but machine-gun gorillas on horseback just looks silly rather than awesome.

It does say a lot when the original 70's series comes up with a better way for apes to overtake humans by being mass breed worldwide as a pet/servant/slave labour force while the human population declines due to decreasing childbirth for why there are more apes than people.

Just look at the breeding rate of natural apes

Gorilla's

Females mature at 10?12 years (earlier in captivity); males at 11?13 years. A female?s first ovulatory cycle occurs when she is six years of age, and is followed by a two-year period of adolescent infertility.[38] The estrous cycle last 30?33 days, with outward ovulation signs subtle compared to those of chimpanzees. The gestation period lasts 8.5 months. Female mountain gorillas first give birth at 10 years of age and have four-year inter-birth intervals.

Orangutan's

Female orangutans experience their first ovulatory cycle around 5.8?11.1 years. These occur earlier in females with more body fat.[35] Like other great apes, female orangutans enter a period of infertility during adolescence which may last for 1?4 years.[35] Female orangutans also have a 22? to 30-day menstrual cycle. Gestation lasts for 9 months, with females giving birth to their first offspring between the ages of 14 and 15 years. Female orangutan's have eight-year intervals between births, the longest inter-birth intervals among the great apes.

Chimpanzee's

In captivity, where they receive regular nutrition, female chimpanzees may reach sexual maturity between the ages of nine and 10 years. In the wild, it may take female chimpanzees an additional three to four years before they can produce young. Males can sire young at the age of 16. After a successful mating, the female will be pregnant for between 230 and 240 days. The offspring may stay with its mother for up to three years. There may be a gap of five to six years between one baby and the next for a female chimpanzee.


At most any single original female ape world have had only 2 offspring none of which would have there own offspring within the 10 year gap between this and the first film so the population of intelligent apes would not even double in the intervening decade.
 

Triaed

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Oh Bob, I thought you were going to go with "Bob Chimpman" in your outro credits!
 

JimB

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Wait, what's this crap about Doomsday? Are they trying to cram Doomsday into Man of Steel 2: Superman v. Batman v. the Board of Education?

Triaed said:
Oh Bob, I thought you were going to go with "Bob Chimpman" in your outro credits!
Ha! I'd have laughed.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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LaoJim said:
Thunderous Cacophony said:
Anyways, I just hope that at some point they do finally do the actual Planet of the Apes movie they are building to. I don't particularly want to see it, but I also don't want an endless stream of prequels.
Actually I don't know. Tim Burton tried just do an reboot of the Planet of the Apes which failed miserably. We don't really need another one just telling about a bunch of astronauts (none of them Charlton Heston) crash landing on another "alien" planet only to discover... (spoiler to 50 year old movie deleted) After all the original is still pretty great even if the effects don't hold up.

I haven't seen the new Apes movie yet, but I'm happy with them doing their own thing of contemporary humans vs intelligent apes. If you look at the original movies they started with the end and then worked their way back through history to show how they got there (I think chronologically the order was something like 3,4,5,1,2), I think here is actually interesting to start at the beginning; at least makes it feel different.
True, it does have a different feeling, and it's nice to see them changing it up. I just look at the ridiculously long titles and I know that the studio wants to make as much money as possible out of the "Planet of the Apes" part. The original is still great, but given that they are going to remake it eventually as part of this cycle, I want them to do it, finish a set number of movies, and put the franchise back to rest, rather than dragging it out as long as possible and ending up with no juice and less funding.
Zontar said:
Also: killing Rodney, that's like 7 sins right there. Ding
"Zontar referenced a fantastic series that isn't on the Escapist. Doesn't this comment section know anything about product placement?" Ding
 

Eddie the head

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Agayek said:
Eddie the head said:
Despite what the trailers for the last one said the human body is not "that" weak compared to other grate apes. It's different for sure, but that's what evolution dose.
Eh, yes and no. Humans are, barring statistical outliers, significantly weaker (in terms of deliverable force) than most great apes. We simply don't have the musculoskeletal structure to support the same degree of raw strength.
Well it's a good thing I wasn't talking about "raw" strength then. A high endurance is a type of strength, but whatever I'm not going to start arguing over semantics.
 

Darth_Payn

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youji itami said:
Johnson McGee said:
youji itami said:
In seriousness the set up for Apes is so, so stupid it makes Transformers look smart which is saying something (just going by the trailers).
I feel the same way about this movie series. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt in how the retrovirus works and what it does, the number of apes on the entire planet is significantly less than a million members among all species combined. Even if every ape on the planet got super intelligent and 99.9% of people got wiped out the apes would still be outnumbered 70:1.

And maybe I'm just getting old but machine-gun gorillas on horseback just looks silly rather than awesome.

It does say a lot when the original 70's series comes up with a better way for apes to overtake humans by being mass breed worldwide as a pet/servant/slave labour force while the human population declines due to decreasing childbirth for why there are more apes than people.

Just look at the breeding rate of natural apes

Gorilla's

Females mature at 10?12 years (earlier in captivity); males at 11?13 years. A female?s first ovulatory cycle occurs when she is six years of age, and is followed by a two-year period of adolescent infertility.[38] The estrous cycle last 30?33 days, with outward ovulation signs subtle compared to those of chimpanzees. The gestation period lasts 8.5 months. Female mountain gorillas first give birth at 10 years of age and have four-year inter-birth intervals.

Orangutan's

Female orangutans experience their first ovulatory cycle around 5.8?11.1 years. These occur earlier in females with more body fat.[35] Like other great apes, female orangutans enter a period of infertility during adolescence which may last for 1?4 years.[35] Female orangutans also have a 22? to 30-day menstrual cycle. Gestation lasts for 9 months, with females giving birth to their first offspring between the ages of 14 and 15 years. Female orangutan's have eight-year intervals between births, the longest inter-birth intervals among the great apes.

Chimpanzee's

In captivity, where they receive regular nutrition, female chimpanzees may reach sexual maturity between the ages of nine and 10 years. In the wild, it may take female chimpanzees an additional three to four years before they can produce young. Males can sire young at the age of 16. After a successful mating, the female will be pregnant for between 230 and 240 days. The offspring may stay with its mother for up to three years. There may be a gap of five to six years between one baby and the next for a female chimpanzee.


At most any single original female ape world have had only 2 offspring none of which would have there own offspring within the 10 year gap between this and the first film so the population of intelligent apes would not even double in the intervening decade.
I thought a nuclear war also factored in to the original's backstory, what with the ruined Statue of Liberty that Charlton Heston was screaming about blowing up.
OT: This movie won't have a blatant "SCIENCE BAD" message to it, will it? The TV spots I watched had this one scene of a woman saying the apes aren't at fault, but "scientists in a lab". I at least hope there's some reference to the "future" movies, and Caesar's mate being named Cornelia has caught my trivia-driven fanboy attention.
 

LaoJim

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
True, it does have a different feeling, and it's nice to see them changing it up. I just look at the ridiculously long titles and I know that the studio wants to make as much money as possible out of the "Planet of the Apes" part. The original is still great, but given that they are going to remake it eventually as part of this cycle, I want them to do it, finish a set number of movies, and put the franchise back to rest, rather than dragging it out as long as possible and ending up with no juice and less funding.
Agree about the silly titles (and am I the only one who is going to be eternally referring to Lara's new adventure as "Rise of the Planet of the Tomb Raider).

I think they can have a well rounded out series. I don't know what happens in the current movie, but a reasonable arc might be.

1) Humans on top, apes are treated badly
2) Starts with humans/apes at peace and equal, war begins.
3) All out war, humans end up as slaves (nuclear war possible at some point, also how humans stop talking)
4) Generations pass. Humans fight back, some kind of balance is returned to the force.

Depending on how far they've got in 2 then maybe 3 and 4 could be one movie. Knowing studios 1-3 will be one trilogy then 4 will be extended into another trilogy. They don't particularly need a spaceship turning up though a wormhole.
 

youji itami

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Darth_Payn said:
youji itami said:
Johnson McGee said:
youji itami said:

I thought a nuclear war also factored in to the original's backstory, what with the ruined Statue of Liberty that Charlton Heston was screaming about blowing up.
OT: This movie won't have a blatant "SCIENCE BAD" message to it, will it? The TV spots I watched had this one scene of a woman saying the apes aren't at fault, but "scientists in a lab". I at least hope there's some reference to the "future" movies, and Caesar's mate being named Cornelia has caught my trivia-driven fanboy attention.

That was retconed with the 4th film once they realised that global nuclear war would you know kill apes as well as humans.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Jul 15, 2009
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SeeDarkly_Xero said:
Ape with a machine gun? It's been done:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlk63g_young-justice-episode-13-part-1-2_shortfilms
Timestamp :52 | (and that's entirely coincidental and not at all any attempt to be clever)
But not dual wielding like Bob said :D

I think I will go see this, I liked the first one okay, so this should be something i will enjoy too.
 

Chairman Miaow

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Nov 18, 2009
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I'm afraid I fall on the silly rather than cool side of the fence with this one. I also wasn't a big fan of the first. The bits it did well were great but it was trying so hard to be serious and then every so often it would undermine its hard work with its terrible, terrible caricature villains.
Thunderous Cacophony said:
Zontar said:
Also: killing Rodney, that's like 7 sins right there. Ding
"Zontar referenced a fantastic series that isn't on the Escapist. Doesn't this comment section know anything about product placement?" Ding
Referencing somebody elses reference for humourous effect. Ding
 

SwimmingRock

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Johnson McGee said:
And maybe I'm just getting old but machine-gun gorillas on horseback just looks silly rather than awesome.
That's my problem as well. I like the underlying idea and theme of the movie (according to Bobs review, that is), but I can't shake the feeling that it gets way too stupid in the third act. Might still go see it and just leave early.
 

Product Placement

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GOD DAMMIT, BOB! I stopped watching your videos because you couldn't write a fricking review without spoiling most of the movie. Now you put them in your damn titles!?
 

The Great JT

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How do they keep making these silly-seeming moments awesome? Gorilla beating up helicopter, now machinegun akimbo ape on a horse, this is hardcore silliness. AND IT IS SO DAMN AWESOME.
 

Netrigan

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I ended up being disappointed. It's still entertaining thanks to the action sequences and the Xavier/Magneto thing going on, but it feels like the movie is supposed to be a tragedy and there's never a sense of anything actually lost... save for the peace between humans and apes which we knew wasn't going to happen back when Charleston Heston was starring in these things.

The humans are destined to bear the brunt of this "tragedy", but the human family which make up the co-leads of this film are uninteresting and the movie never goes full George RR Martin on anybody. Gary Oldman manages to wring one good tear-jerking moment out of an iPad, but largely he's there to reluctantly go to war. This is the sort of movie that uses an image of a kid celebrating at a party prior to the ape raid in lieu of putting forth any effort to make us care about the San Fran colony... look, there's a kid, you are contractually obligated to care about the fate of these people.

And I'm not really sure what this movie is trying to say. Rise gave us an angry slave uprising grounded in animal cruelty. Here we have two camps of people who (with one exception) don't trust each other because they don't know one another. The ball bounces a little bit different and these two groups could be the best of friends... which isn't the back story we got from Rise where seething anger was much more the norm. An early attempt of the humans to blame the apes for the simian flu is immediately stepped on, so all we get is this vague racism on the human side who can't quite bring themselves to think of the apes as their equals. There's really no parallel to the real world (outside of random armed groups trying to figure out if they can trust each other) as there's no sense of the history between these two groups, no deep-seeded anger (apart from one character) sabotaging the peace effort.

The Planet of the Ape movies tend to rage against the machine. Charleston Heston was the angry entitled white guy who rankles at being enslaved by his inferiors (although he does have a couple of monkeys as friends) and subsequent films held humanity accountable for its misdeeds with its monkey metaphor. Rise gave us a heaping dose of animal cruelty. While Dawn is about a bunch of even-tempered folks who get their peace hijacked by a single monkey who is justifiably pissed off about being tortured. If there's a machine being raged against, I'm not sure what it is.
 

Sovereignty

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I went and saw this movie today cause Bob seemed to think highly of it... Man was I disappointed. I don't know if I saw a different version or what, but this movie was just so horribly DULL.

There was a great action sequence in the movie sure (just one of them unfortunately), the CGI/animation/etc was beautiful, and the whole beginning of the movie had this great apocalyptic feel to it. However as the movie dragged on it just felt like it was overstaying it's welcome.

Definitely not the best action movie I've seen this year.
 

1337mokro

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Shoot the monkeys. Don't kill just one of them. Shoot them and keep shooting them. Lay down a line of fire and advance whilst feeding clips into your rifles until no ape moves.

Problem solved. There's about 6 billion humans and only a few million Apes.
 

Iceklimber

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Not gonna fall for you again, Moviebob! He called the finale of the previous film "a blast"
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/3821-Rise-of-the-Planet-of-the-Apes

When it was actually sub-mediocre and the few action scenes were clearly just made for the trailers, and 90% of those appeared in them. Was a nice movie but definitely not an action spectacle as promised by Moviebob or implied by the trailers.
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Well, I enjoyed the first movie quite a bit, and most people seem to be saying that this one is even better, so I'll definitely try to see this movie this weekend.

I don't know why people think that apes using guns is ridiculous... What should they be using? Clubs? Just their fists? That would put them a pretty distinct disadvantage. They're supposed to be intelligent so why wouldn't they use the best weapons available to them?
 

Story

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I just got back from seeing it and it was pretty different I'll say that. It wasn't a bad movie at all and it had some neat moments but boy oh boy did it feel overly long. Though overly long movies are the standard these days.
Also the concept of this movie was completely ludicrous, I rolled my eyes at some points including the big action scene. But then I sat there and realized it was no different from watching a Kung-fu panda defeat a crazed peacock from taking over China or a raccoon driving a spaceship.
Meh.

1337mokro said:
snip, a little
Problem solved. There's about 6 billion humans and only a few million Apes.
Not any more. :p well, at least in the context of this film.

IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
This has probably already been answered but no, not really. They do a pretty nice job summarizing the last film.
This coming from someone who didn't see the first film.
Doug said:
Hi all,

I'm thinking of going to see this, but neither me or my mate have seen Rise of the Planet of the Apes; I'd like to know, do we need to have seen the first movie for this to make sense or be good?
As stated above, you and your mate will be fine.
 

MovieBob

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IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
I would. Caesar is literally a character from the previous film, and while I haven't seen this one yet, I would wager that the details of his leadership role and his relationship with his subordinates isn't going to make a lot of sense without it.

While they're making the plot-lines pretty self-contained and episodic, so watching it as a pure action movie probably won't bother you, I'd lay money on you not getting anywhere near as much out of it without seeing the last one. Character study is a large part of the current series and you'll be missing character information here.

That said, you CAN easily skip the 'first' one (the Walberg one), it doesn't have much to do with anything and it mind-numbingly stupid to boot. The 'beginning' of the current series is really Rise of the Planet of the Apes, with competent writing and direction and acting and so on.
 

ISearchForTraps

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1337mokro said:
Shoot the monkeys. Don't kill just one of them. Shoot them and keep shooting them. Lay down a line of fire and advance whilst feeding clips into your rifles until no ape moves.

Problem solved. There's about 6 billion humans and only a few million Apes.
Umm, in this movie the majority of the human population was wiped out by the Simian Flu. Did you see the review? Bob makes it quite clear, and civilization is in ruins besides.
 

1337mokro

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ISearchForTraps said:
1337mokro said:
Shoot the monkeys. Don't kill just one of them. Shoot them and keep shooting them. Lay down a line of fire and advance whilst feeding clips into your rifles until no ape moves.

Problem solved. There's about 6 billion humans and only a few million Apes.
Umm, in this movie the majority of the human population was wiped out by the Simian Flu. Did you see the review? Bob makes it quite clear, and civilization is in ruins besides.
I know which is why you don't wait until the Simian flu kills everyone. I was talking about the first movie where they literally try to club gorillas down using billy clubs, instead of shooting every monkey in sight before the disease could spread.

Just because you got the stupid premise out of the way in the first movie does not excuse the second movie from building upon it without explanation.

Even if 99% of all humans died that still leaves 60-70 million of us vs a few million of them, that is if you count monkeys and apes AND you assume that the monkeys are not starting a rebellion against the chimpanzees for eating them.
 

MovieBob

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I'm not particularly invested in this argument, but why not.

1337mokro said:
I know which is why you don't wait until the Simian flu kills everyone. I was talking about the first movie where they literally try to club gorillas down using billy clubs, instead of shooting every monkey in sight before the disease could spread.
1/ When the apes were making their rush the humans were unaware of the virus.

2/ It wasn't the apes that were 'spreading' it so wiping them out wouldn't have stopped it.

3/ The first film wasn't a battle between apes and humans with each side ready to charge. Rather the apes organized themselves in a small force, rounded up any fellow apes they could find and made a run for the nearest major forest.

Even if 99% of all humans died that still leaves 60-70 million of us vs a few million of them,
60 million people sporadically spread out across the globe facing potential famines, internal fighting, the collapse of civilization and so on.

I'm sure the last thing they care about is a tiny ape community confined to a National Park in California.

that is if you count monkeys and apes AND you assume that the monkeys are not starting a rebellion against the chimpanzees for eating them.
Caesar only recruited chimps, gorillas and an orangutan in the California area. Presumably every other ape in the world was unaffected.
 

geier

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Well as i see it (in the universe of this movie) america is pretty fucked. Thank (whatever) god that monkey can't fly planes or navigate ships. So the other continents can rebuild while america is stuck in a human/ape war.
 

1337mokro

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Nil Kafashle said:
I'm not particularly invested in this argument, but why not.

1337mokro said:
I know which is why you don't wait until the Simian flu kills everyone. I was talking about the first movie where they literally try to club gorillas down using billy clubs, instead of shooting every monkey in sight before the disease could spread.
1/ When the apes were making their rush the humans were unaware of the virus.

2/ It wasn't the apes that were 'spreading' it so wiping them out wouldn't have stopped it.

3/ The first film wasn't a battle between apes and humans with each side ready to charge. Rather the apes organized themselves in a small force, rounded up any fellow apes they could find and made a run for the nearest major forest.

Even if 99% of all humans died that still leaves 60-70 million of us vs a few million of them,
60 million people sporadically spread out across the globe facing potential famines, internal fighting, the collapse of civilization and so on.

I'm sure the last thing they care about is a tiny ape community confined to a National Park in California.

that is if you count monkeys and apes AND you assume that the monkeys are not starting a rebellion against the chimpanzees for eating them.
Caesar only recruited chimps, gorillas and an orangutan in the California area. Presumably every other ape in the world was unaffected.
Potential famine? Have you looked around you yet? There's literally enough food to feed you and whatever people survive after 99% is wiped out for nearly 3-5 years. Non-healthy food sure but you won't starve.

There was a giant escape of animals that acted intelligently, repeatedly came into conflict with humans and even fatally injured several of them. These apes are zombies at this point.

Sure it wasn't them who were spreading the virus... but I never said so. I never said stop the spread of the virus by killing the monkeys. I simply said kill the monkeys. There is no reason not to kill them to prevent this movie.
 

LobsterFeng

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Are apes arms strong enough to fire machine guns with only one arm? I find this concept pretty cool actually.
 

geier

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LobsterFeng said:
Are apes arms strong enough to fire machine guns with only one arm? I find this concept pretty cool actually.
Well, there is a video of a military guy on youtube who is dual wielding M249 machine guns. He may not be strong enough to aim in this state, but apes are much stronger. So i think, yes, they could.

But i also believe they have no chance of using firearms for a long time. They lack the knowledge to produce new rounds, dexterity to handle components and/or maintaining the weapons.
 

MovieBob

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1337mokro said:
Potential famine? Have you looked around you yet? There's literally enough food to feed you and whatever people survive after 99% is wiped out for nearly 3-5 years. Non-healthy food sure but you won't starve.
Standard apocalypse stuff though.

People being cut off from food. People hoarding food. People being too stupid to simply grow new food. All that jazz.

I simply said kill the monkeys. There is no reason not to kill them to prevent this movie.
They all made a break before the humans could act quickly enough to make a coordinated attack.

At this point they could either:

a) Carpet bomb a national park (a major no no)

b) Waste lives trying to fight a guerrilla war with some gorillas.

All the while a more major virus is killing off 99% of the whole population and no doubt causing major havoc.
 

Tim Chuma

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People! People! People! Apes! Apes! Apes! Apes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75yTfBFX5gs

Was concerned how they were going to handle the people with automatic weapons vs apes with spears thing as that usually ends badly in real life except those cases where the losing side left the automatic weapons behind (Custer) or had them go wrong (from the Gun "the Italian wounded were found hiding under the Italian dead"). I have seen the viral ad of the chimp with the AK-47.

Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2m355-JRo
 

Tim Chuma

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geier said:
LobsterFeng said:
Are apes arms strong enough to fire machine guns with only one arm? I find this concept pretty cool actually.
Well, there is a video of a military guy on youtube who is dual wielding M249 machine guns. He may not be strong enough to aim in this state, but apes are much stronger. So i think, yes, they could.
Apes are pretty strong, they will rip you to pieces given the chance and have ripped people's arms and legs off in the past. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-04-chimp-attack_x.htm

Michael Jackson had to send his chimp to a shelter as they get violent when they are older, "you and 20 friends" could not hold them down.
 

wulfy42

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There are some huge plot holes in this movie. As mentioned above, an ape (chimpanzee) reaches maturity at age 16, but are still quite small and often have only stopped feeding from their mothers for a few years by the age of 9. How was Ceasar's son as old as he was in 9 or less years (maximum age he could have been)?

Also, the new setup makes absolutely no sense at all...none...as far as apes eventually taking over the world and dominating humans. Yes, it's possible they might do so in the immediate area where this movie was shot....but the rest of the world has no super smart apes to contend with, what stops them from banding together, getting power going and expanding again? The flu has run it's course and there are plenty of humans left to pick up the pieces. It makes no sense that humans around the world would not eventually use technology to dominate the apes...even the apes with guns etc. If the flu continued to affect children (so 9/10 children born died from it) as well, then the apes could eventually possibly take over the world just by reproducing so much faster then humans...except such a low birth rate...would eventually cause humans to become extinct anyway....so it makes no logical sense at all that apes in this world would eventually dominate.

Also...why didn't any of the apes...not even his son, friends etc.....go down the "VERY EASY FOR AN APE" hill to check on his body..make sure he was dead? Yes, I know their home was on fire..but it's their leader..father....savior etc....nobody thought to check and make sure he was really dead....except the humans who randomly find him of course.

There are other problems as well, but even so I still enjoyed the movie. The original movies though made more sense...as far as how the apes ended up in control etc. Perhaps in this universe the humans end up in control again....enslaving the apes as slaves....and then the rise up (can't use that title again though), and overthrow them eventually...that could at least make some sense. I did like some of the symbolism (IE....at the end where ceasar and his family look like the future, and the human fades back into darkness)....but some of the science is a bit wonky. Even the concept of using guns...while apes can use tools (like spears/axes etc), the same muscles that gives them something like 4x the average strength of a human...cause them to have much less fine motor control.....causing muscle spams etc..and would make firing a gun....difficult..even if the apes was extra smart. It might be possible for an ape to pull off...but their aim would probably be horrific..and they would quite possibly shoot their allies as easily as enemies.

Anyway..good movie....enjoyable...but I liked the originals better so far.
 

wulfy42

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Tim Chuma said:
People! People! People! Apes! Apes! Apes! Apes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75yTfBFX5gs

Was concerned how they were going to handle the people with automatic weapons vs apes with spears thing as that usually ends badly in real life except those cases where the losing side left the automatic weapons behind (Custer) or had them go wrong (from the Gun "the Italian wounded were found hiding under the Italian dead"). I have seen the viral ad of the chimp with the AK-47.

Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2m355-JRo

Yeah, honestly it still didn't make sense....a fortified wall, with many people with automatic weapons manning it....vs a bunch of apes ...with only a few having guns themselves (Especially after the start). Why where only so few humans armed with guns? They had days to move guns over to the city...and wouldn't they at least have SOME police force setup originally...not to mention setting more up after first having the apes show up? They had a freaking rocket launcher....but only used it later on as an after thought (And why did they only have one...and not use it when the apes where all clustered together at the start etc). Seriously there is no way the humans should have lost in that setup.....the apes best chance would have been to attack from many different directions, getting into the city and taking on the humans at close range, a straight assault on a heavy fortified wall...would...and should have been...suicide...absolute disaster. Forget needing a tank (lol)...which they basically used to give the apes access to the city. I'm pretty sure most takes lock from the inside so you can't jump in and take over the tank so easily.
 

MarsProbe

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karloss01 said:
The way you started the review out, it sounded like it was shit. good thing it doesn't sound like it.
That's what I was thinking. Given the time Bob devoted to Rise... in this video, I was waiting for "it's too bad about the follow up" lead in to the actual review. Looking forward to this coming out - I wasn't sure if I was going to like Rise and ended up really enjoying so glad to hear this one is following suit.
 

Mr. Q

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When I saw the stars & stripes outfit of Mario, my first thought was James Brown's Living in America.


Must have been the stage setting or my fondness for Rocky IV. Take your pick.

As for Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, it was a fun movie. Bob covered the high points perfectly. I am curious as to where this series goes from here. I'm kinda longing for the apes to become more humanoid and take over the planet completely but I think it's gonna be a few movies before that comes along. ^^;
 

KazeAizen

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
IanDavis said:
Do I have to have seen the previous one first?
Not really. I'm pretty sure that most of the emotional beats (Caesar watching a video of him and Franco with tears in his ape eyes) are pretty easily understood, and I think the rest of the plot holds up on it's own once you accept the basic premise.

OT: Surprised that Bob was so enthusiastic about the first one. I saw it at the time and thought it was good but not as good as Bob paints it. Maybe I'll go rewatch that.

Anyways, I just hope that at some point they do finally do the actual Planet of the Apes movie they are building to. I don't particularly want to see it, but I also don't want an endless stream of prequels.
Its a weird series it seems. I mean the way its playing out and the way some people have the flow chart set up these films may be a reboot but they do actually lead to the original films series which then rewrites its own history after the second one. I don't know what's going to happen but if they essentially do certain things right all the Apes films produced, save for Tim Burton's, would be in the same timeline/continuity.
 

Coruptin

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why do you guys think apes on horses shooting guns are cool?
i just don't see it. the simian silhouette is too similar to human for me to see it as anything extraordinary. monkeys are just visually dull. they're hairy humans without any of the things that might make a person interesting.

i guess what i'm saying is, let's scrap planet of the apes. let's make a planet of the arthropods.
 

Jakerscythe

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I thought Rise was an unbelievably dumb movie that tried way too hard to manipulate our emotions. Definitely gonna skip this one. Apes on horses dual wielding automatic weapons looks lame beyond belief. Maybe I'm getting too old for this.
 

gamegod25

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This is what Avatar should have been, a realistic look at two sides trying to survive but mistrust and old wounds risk upsetting a fragile peace, rather than a black and white morality play for infants.