Escape to the Movies: Iron Lady

[Mr Companion]

Oh good because what we want is the mistakes of the past to be washed away to avoid hurting anybody's feelings
Brilliant! Lets have one for Hitler next and emphasize his desire for a utopia and his veganism. All those accusations of genocide are probably just made up to stamp out his dreams!

I know thats a different level, but seriously dodging the bad points of her career (ie ALL OF IT) doesn't just make it boring but also re writes history and willingly breeds ignorance for no better reason that that they couldn't put any of that in without raising a few eyebrows and HEAVEN forbid we make something controversial for once Holywood ay you great Nancy?

 

[Spongebobdickpants]

Do you really think that that will happen?

In time, yes. The death of "one nation" conservatism which Thatcher led resulted in the wiping out of the centre right in Scotland, the (until recently) domination of the majority of Scotland by the Labour party and the rise of a social democratic nationalism in the form of the SNP. A few things needed to happen before this became clear.

First, the old "Churchill" Conservatives needed to die. The generation that remembered WW2 voted Tory and were pro-union. That generation is passing/passed. Harsh, but true.
Second, the ruling party, Labour, slipped up as all ruling parties will eventually do.
Third, the switch to the opposition, the SNP. And as per their reason for existing, there will be a vote on Scottish Independence.

Will the vote pass? Stranger things have happened. Indeed the SNP came from further behind in the polls to win the last election.
But what is sure, there is a real appetite to extend the powers of devolved government. The "Devo Max" option. Scotland in charge of *everything* bar Defence and Foreign Policy. Recent polling suggests that over 70% of voters would like to see that, and the SNP would be mad not to let the public vote for it.

If "Devo Max" passes, Scotland is just in the UK for foreign relations and defence. You can see what happens next.

It will take just one Iraq war type of situation for full independence.
And we all know how much Prime Ministers like to pretend we are still world military power....

Matter of time.

Very well said. That is why west minister doesn't want the DEVO max question being asked, most people would vote yes then Scotland is virtually independent already and that is much more likely to get support.

Has anyone seen Britain's welfare state these days? This may just be me, but me thinks we could do with another Margarat Thatcher.

How does one go about the task of making a film about a complex historical figure that doesn't neatly fall into the tired Left/Right political division? By sidestepping the controvesies entirely and making the protagonist sympathetic by default.

Good going, film! Way to push the envelope!

I already responded to a similar comment on facebook so im just gnna copy paste it.

The welfare system as it was did get drastically changed. From the beveridgean right to benefit it shifted to means testing. People now in order to claim benefit now need to prove they are either looking for work or incapable of working.

Although in theory this sounds like a good system it ment those seeking to exist solely on benefit would become disabled in some way. Funnily enough "diseases" like alcoholism and drug addiction will get you marked for disability meaning those who are genuine wasters got off with it and those who were either genuinely disabled or looking for work were forced through layers of bureaucracy that hinders the time they can actually spend looking for work.

Thatcher did do some good though she isn't evil, brutal yes but not evil as so many claim, just with an extreme political ethos.

The unions did have too much power (although she went to the other extream), and she did sort out the economy (again in the most brutal fashion).

I agree that we need a strong leader but scotland already has one. Hes called Alex salmond, he's the only politician in recent years who is actually making steps to try to improve his country AND is a shrewd political animal who can stand toe to toe with anyone in a debate and come out on top.

 

[Beeple]

Because providing it costs money. Money that could be saved by not providing it.
This was a -good- decision.

I'm a northerner. I grew up on a council estate, I'm most definitely still working class and there's quite possibly nothing I fear more than the middle-upper class being in positions of authority.

Thatcher is not our equivalent of Dick Cheney or Bin Laden. I'm not going to totally outline my political views here but 30 years on, do children get free milk (at the expense of the government) at schools? And all of them mines, they've opened up again right? No?... Interesting

........seriously? Come on, it seems like a lot of people don't like her. Please tell me it is for more serious reasons than taking away free milk.

Spoiler: I guess when it comes to the milk issue, this video comes to mind

Spoiler: This video also comes to mind when thinking about the milk issue and your comment about working class and middle-upper class

As for the mines, I get that it takes jobs away, but (I realize this is an unpopular view) I'm glad they stopped coal mining. I'm not saying this to be a troll, but because I'm worried about the environment and I hate the idea that we still use coal. I don't care if its "clean [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_coal_technology]", solar/wind/hydro/natural gas are better choices. I'm not trying to be a dick about the mining issue, I just think the environment is more important than any countries ability to employ people, even if it affect my own ability to find employment

There are very legitimate reasons for disagreeing with her political viewpoints, though they're not grounds to hate her. She was also involved in a few political scandals whilst she was in power.

The taking away of the milk is the 'Pop-politics' opposition against her. The majority of the people who ***** about the milk issue are those that don't understand politics and it's a view that got passed down from one generation to the next.

So a lot of people don't like her and everyone has a right to like or dislike whoever they want. My personal issue with the matter is that the majority of people who don't like her have no idea -why- they don't like her beyond 'Waaah Milk'.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Because providing it costs money. Money that could be saved by not providing it.
This was a -good- decision.

I'm a northerner. I grew up on a council estate, I'm most definitely still working class and there's quite possibly nothing I fear more than the middle-upper class being in positions of authority.

Thatcher is not our equivalent of Dick Cheney or Bin Laden. I'm not going to totally outline my political views here but 30 years on, do children get free milk (at the expense of the government) at schools? And all of them mines, they've opened up again right? No?... Interesting

........seriously? Come on, it seems like a lot of people don't like her. Please tell me it is for more serious reasons than taking away free milk.

Spoiler: I guess when it comes to the milk issue, this video comes to mind

Spoiler: This video also comes to mind when thinking about the milk issue and your comment about working class and middle-upper class

As for the mines, I get that it takes jobs away, but (I realize this is an unpopular view) I'm glad they stopped coal mining. I'm not saying this to be a troll, but because I'm worried about the environment and I hate the idea that we still use coal. I don't care if its "clean [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_coal_technology]", solar/wind/hydro/natural gas are better choices. I'm not trying to be a dick about the mining issue, I just think the environment is more important than any countries ability to employ people, even if it affect my own ability to find employment

There are very legitimate reasons for disagreeing with her political viewpoints, though they're not grounds to hate her. She was also involved in a few political scandals whilst she was in power.

The taking away of the milk is the 'Pop-politics' opposition against her. The majority of the people who ***** about the milk issue are those that don't understand politics and it's a view that got passed down from one generation to the next.

So a lot of people don't like her and everyone has a right to like or dislike whoever they want. My personal issue with the matter is that the majority of people who don't like her have no idea -why- they don't like her beyond 'Waaah Milk'.

fair enough, you seem to know what your talking about.

 

[OutsiderEX]

Thatcher, for all her sins and there are many, did defend the Falklands and did reduce the impact the unions had on the economy.

She shouldn't have rendered the Unions as useless as she did and she shouldn't have switched us from coal and nuclear to gas in her attempts to defeat the unions. Neither should she, in her later years, switch us over to American style corporate ownership; power and water and public transportation should be nationalised and I will never forgive her for destroying our aviation and small arms industry.

But the vitrolic hatred that is outpoured even to this day is a bit disquieting. Especially in the light of the last 13 years of Labour government which went beyond Thatcher's excesses in selling out this nation to private interests and foreign governments.

Also I am for Scotland's independence. Alex Salmond's recent tirade is merely an attempt to delay a referendum. Let's see the SNP maintain Scotland's standard of livng outside of the Union. I'll bet that if we went independent, we'd see our return within the decade. Either that, or I'll cross over to the other side of the border and start reiving again.

>EDIT

And I'd rather we use Coal or Nuclear to fuel Britain while setting up renewable power sources instead of relying on foreign sources of fuel; France's nuclear grid or Russia's gas.

 

[Ryan Olson]

I think he just meant on how she looked in both movies

 

[Ryan Olson]

I think he was just talking about how much they look alike in both movies

 

[Stalydan]

I still like Tim Burton, even if Alice in Wonderland sucked. His other films rock.

You're awesome, you know that.

I like Alice in Wonderland though xD In that weird, guilty pleasure kind of way. Except for Mad Hatter break dancing. Tim, buddy, I love you but... why? ...Why?

Oh and Planet of the Apes. Let's not go there. I'd rather not stir up some more repressed thoughts and emotions.

 

[Sovvolf]

I still like Tim Burton, even if Alice in Wonderland sucked. His other films rock.

You're awesome, you know that.

I like Alice in Wonderland though xD In that weird, guilty pleasure kind of way. Except for Mad Hatter break dancing. Tim, buddy, I love you but... why? ...Why?

Oh and Planet of the Apes. Let's not go there. I'd rather not stir up some more repressed thoughts and emotions.

Personally went off of Burton since he just started adapting shit and putting his "dark" spin on them. Honestly thought it was getting old, annoying and honestly made him just look like a pretentious arse.

I liked his old work, Beetlejuice, Batman hell I don't even mind planet of the apes. Just, most films where he teams up with Johnny Depp and Helen Carter... Yuk. He used to do fresh quirky stuff but its got old and I think it actually exploits him for his lack of creativity in recent years. As said the majority of his movies are adaptions, even his successful ones like Batman, Sweeney Todd and to a lesser extent Edward Scissor hands (Frankenstein mixed with Beauty and the Beast).

I think the only movie I can think of off the top of my head that isn't an adaption are Nightmare Before Christmas (though that's equal parts Selicks work) and Beetlejuice. The rest are just putting a dark spin on already relatively dark source materials. I'll be impressed when he gets his head out of his arse and comes up with something original for a change.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

ever since the fudderwack I've never been able to see Tim Burton in the same light. Why he chose to direct that film I will never know

 

[I-Protest-I]

I grew up in what used to be a largely mining community, I've heard the horror stories of what the police did to my granddad and uncles. How people who were striking to go back to low paying jobs just so they could provide for their families. How after all of it when there weren't enough jobs entire communities were destroyed. I only ever saw my granddad cry once and it was when he spoke of how he couldn't afford to feed my mum or her 2 brothers while living in a small 2 bedroom house.

He was the greatest man I ever knew and the person who caused all of this pain? Yeah she gets a movie showing how amazing she is.

 

[Carnagath]

Great, a movie about another corrupt politician of our time that helped lead our world to where it is now. Of course we need to manipulate people's opinions and make them feel sympathy for her, so let's mention nothing about the 20 million pounds that her family made from the Saudi Arabian civil wars (her son had a weapons factory in South Africa), and the fact that in order to help her personal gains she did not lift a single finger when a British reporter from the Observer was executed by Sadam Hussein in 1989, while her screams were heard all the way to the fucking Kremlin when the Soviets dared to station armed forces in Afghanistan and disrupt her carefully planned operations.

She fought tooth and nail to stay in power to further her family's criminal activities, by of course licking the balls of worldwide dictators, banks who lived off them and capitalists that thrived on the sewage, while plunging her whole country into poverty, misery and social conflict. It's a shame that such a person actually grew old and wasn't publically executed by her own people. I'm Greek and all I can say is, she was almost as bad as our own politicians. Almost.

You CANNOT make a movie like that and attempt to not be political. Phyllida Lloyd should know better.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

The other stuff I could deal with.

But the milk...

Dman, that was a low blow.

I'm sorry but as a Yank what exactly did she do with the milk? I've read the little chant of her snatching milk but what exactly did she do? I'm not judging, just asking cause well... I'm a Yank and when it came to politics I kinda rolled my eye's cause it usally makes me rage. Sorry if I sound so lacking about her time as PM.

Well, to put it simply, she got rid of providing free milk to to school children below a certain age.

Well why did she get rid of it? I really doubt that it was out of a pure evil intention.

Because she hated children and wanted us to suffer.

She feeds off of anguish you see, she's like a vampire, but without any of the cool powers.

lol, I'm sure. But seriously, while I don't agree with everything she did, it seems absurd to have a serious opinion that she was "evil".

Add that to the fact that she invented a machine to pump air thru ice cream to invent the soft serve ice cream, purely so that people would get less ice cream.

She actually plotted an invention that steals ice cream from the mouths of children!

( I may have slightly opinionated those facts, but it is true it was invented as a way to sell more ice cream for less ingredients. )

I also think it says something that Spitting Image made a caricature puppet of her being an evil, violent bully, and it just made her into a stronger political force.


Imo however, this movie is like making a romantic comedy about Fred and Rose West and their 'eccentric hobbies', or making a sequel to Carry On Doctor about Harold Shipman, or even like some bumbling idiot like Boris Johnson getting given the job of Mayor of London just because people think he's a funny posh bloke, oh wait...

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Cant see the point in making a movie about someone and leaving out all the negative stuff. Guess there next movie to make will be Hitler - all about him being a failed artist and fighting for power while fighting off all those evil jews that tried to stop him. But i guess they just want to rewrite history in a more positive way without all those pesky poor people fighting for there jobs messing everything up.

 

[Ralancian]

What is generally forgotten when people talk about the South is they are in general referring to home counties. Use in South West get a bum deal too and there is just as much burning intense hatred for Thatcher here too. We just tend to be Lib Dem supporters as opposed to Labour. In fact most of the arrangement's I've heard from people who vote Lib Dem and to why they sold out to the Conservatives is purely "They made a deal with Thatcher's Party." There's no actual looking at the policies or anything just the pure fact they hate Thatcher.

I have to share my birthday with the witch and while I was very young (ie born mid 80's) during her reign of terror I've since read her policies and the things she did and they were just vile. what should be public services have become a mess, electric and gas companies are now fixng energy prices by now offer best deal to customers. Public transport in this country is ran by what's profitable not what's the best service for those who need to use it. Not to mention the extraordinary prices it costs to get to one place to another which isn't in line with inflation at all.

Simply put the only thing I agree with Thatcher on is the Falkland's and the only reason she did that was to stay in power not because it was the right thing to do.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Cant see the point in making a movie about someone and leaving out all the negative stuff. Guess there next movie to make will be Hitler - all about him being a failed artist and fighting for power while fighting off all those evil jews that tried to stop him. But i guess they just want to rewrite history in a more positive way without all those pesky poor people fighting for there jobs messing everything up.

Hey you leave poor Adolf alone! He loved his mum, liked dogs, was a vegetarian and showed his artistic side in his painting.

Not to mention all the great work he did, giving work to architects and builders across Europe and the UK in the mid 1940s.

 

[Count UberBlau]

"because the lady in question has not passed on it puts a sealing on just how good the Iron Lady can aspire to be." Yes, film biopics that are in the life-time of their subject are always not very good. Just like Citizen Kane and The Social Network. You know both not very good movies.