Escape to the Movies: Iron Lady

[Lusty]

I was referring exclusively to both her and him not liking the EU. From their, I was pointing out how both people came to a similar conclusion despite the fact that she was a conservative and he was an independent. To my knowledge, I have not heard a independent party elected politician hold any of the same views as Dick Chaney(a republican).

Yes but in this case that doesn't really mean anything. UKIPs opposition to the EU is in most cases based on a kind of closet racism rather than any solid political or economic reasoning. And Thatcher's views on Europe were in opposition to most of her party, and in fact were a large factor in her eventual downfall.

I could probably find some crackpot far-right American that agrees with Dick Cheney on National Security for example but I don't think it would mean much.

 

[number2301]

Yeah I pretty much knew I wouldn't watch this regardless. Why? A bit of context for Americans, for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

Really? Did she kill 3000+ civilians and try to murder more of them?

Of course I'm not saying she was a terrorist, but her popularity level is pretty much equivalent. She destroyed the livelihoods of what? 10's of thousands? She broke the unions leaving the working class at the mercy of employers ( which if you're American you probably won't understand as your employment laws are horrendous) and she publicly aimed to let northern towns wither and die.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Ok I'm not agreeing with what he's saying but you're not helping and that is really low on the scale of things you could say. Ireland wanted separation because there was genuine abuse of the country and the indigenous population for years that has only stopped in the last decade or so.

I'd be the first one to call out the shit that our government does. But there are times when you have to put pride away and look at the larger picture. Separating 4 countries who economies are so closely linked, and have been for a long time, at this stage. It's downright fucking lunacy. And southern Ireland proved that. That's where all our countries will end up if we're forced to separate.

And right now, things being as they are. Both NI and Scotland aren't being mistreated by our unified government. Infact Scotland (the ones pushing a referendum) are getting a very good deal at the minute, because of the hickery do-dah about the north sea oil. The annual subsidiary, not having tot pay university tuition and preferential NHS treatment being most prominent.

At this stage in the game it's not like any of us can say one country or another is being mistreated. Regardless of our less than acceptable history.

Which is why I said that I do not agree with what he is saying but in relation to this the Republic of Ireland being form doesn't prove anything in relation to this. Also if you really think that people are so stupid(I even include politicians in this) that they wouldn't still have economic union in some form I'll get the men in white coats for you.

If you think any normal person(as in anyone who is not Church of Ireland[Anglican]) in the Republic was getting anything like even human you are dead wrong. The only people who got that were other Protestants and then they were seen as dissenters and lesser people. Just look at stuff like the Penal Laws, Protestant Ascendency, Gerrymandering, The Guildford Four, what was allowed happen in several civil rights marches and much more. A lot of that stuff has only recently ended.

It wasn't pride that Irish people wanted Home Rule and eventually got a Republic and removed themselves from the common wealth. No we didn't just give England the two fingers and never talk to them again. They are one of our biggest economic trade partner(if not the biggest). This all despite tariff wars over the years and stuff being done like buying unbranded Irish dairy and meat then selling it as 100% UK made in the UK.

If anything despite all that the Republic of Ireland shows that this could actually work with the countries having separate governments that are closely tied through economic means.

Even though you may not personally believe Scotland is being mistreated now you are(probably) so far removed from such conflicts and tensions you don't understand how long people can hold a grudge and keep trying. Age old repression can go a long way despite new changes.

 

[atomicmrpelly]

She isn't a feminist. She believed woman ought to stay at home while the men were out working.

And as one with considerably less than rosy perspective on Mrs Thatcher "Milk Snatcher" I think I shall continue avoiding this film!

 

[Duffeknol]

So she was a woman who did what was necessary to rid the nation of unions (seriously if you live in a hyper-socialist country like me you'll soon realize they're nothing but whiny douchebags who slow down every single process), whilst trampling the weak and poor, fought a war and won and survived a bombing? I like this woman. I like this woman a lot.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I was referring exclusively to both her and him not liking the EU. From their, I was pointing out how both people came to a similar conclusion despite the fact that she was a conservative and he was an independent. To my knowledge, I have not heard a independent party elected politician hold any of the same views as Dick Chaney(a republican).

Yes but in this case that doesn't really mean anything. UKIPs opposition to the EU is in most cases based on a kind of closet racism rather than any solid political or economic reasoning. And Thatcher's views on Europe were in opposition to most of her party, and in fact were a large factor in her eventual downfall.

I could probably find some crackpot far-right American that agrees with Dick Cheney on National Security for example but I don't think it would mean much.

no...no, no, no. You would have to find someone who is an elected Independent party, American politian, not a right wing person.

Do you have any proof that "closet racism rahter than any solid political or economic reasoning" is their reason?

Also, we're going off topic. My point was that unlike Dick Chaney who doesn't have Independent Part elected officials agreeing with the views he took, Margret Thatcher does have an UKIP elected official that does have the same dislike for the EU that she did.

 

[Moeez]

Mark Kermode (best British film critic) completely destroyed Iron Lady:


I hope this doesn't even get Oscar noms. Not even good for Oscar bait.

 

[maninahat]

Thanks Bob for the warning. Also Thatcher feminist icon? Working class? Um, No.

She was the first PM who was female. She spent her childhood living a grocery store (not working class, more Petite bourgeoisie). Even though the working class and feminists hate her, her rising to power represents a degree of progress in the rights of the lower classes and women. She's not an "icon" so much as an icon: not a treasured figure representing a movement, but a figure representing a progression.

 

[Lusty]

no...no, no, no. You would have to find someone who is an elected Independent party, American politian, not a right wing person.

Do you have any proof that "closet racism rahter than any solid political or economic reasoning" is their reason?

Also, we're going off topic. My point was that unlike Dick Chaney who doesn't have Independent Part elected officials agreeing with the views he took, Margret Thatcher does have an UKIP elected official that does have the same dislike for the EU that she did.

Well my 5 minutes of Googling for elected independents in the US, of which there seems to be only 3, has revealed that Disk Cheney and Lincoln Chafee have similar views on gay marraige. As I suggested, this is completely meaningless. I still don't understand how Thatcher's actions are excused because she happens to agree with a racist fuckwit like Farange on Europe. I dare say she has similar views to Nick Griffen on Europe as well...

As for UKIP being racist, see my earlier quotes from Farange. Even their founder, Dr Alan Sked, resigned because they got taken over by the far right. Also Google Rober Kilroy Silk if you're still not convinced.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Ok I'm not agreeing with what he's saying but you're not helping and that is really low on the scale of things you could say. Ireland wanted separation because there was genuine abuse of the country and the indigenous population for years that has only stopped in the last decade or so.

I'd be the first one to call out the shit that our government does. But there are times when you have to put pride away and look at the larger picture. Separating 4 countries who economies are so closely linked, and have been for a long time, at this stage. It's downright fucking lunacy. And southern Ireland proved that. That's where all our countries will end up if we're forced to separate.

And right now, things being as they are. Both NI and Scotland aren't being mistreated by our unified government. Infact Scotland (the ones pushing a referendum) are getting a very good deal at the minute, because of the hickery do-dah about the north sea oil. The annual subsidiary, not having tot pay university tuition and preferential NHS treatment being most prominent.

At this stage in the game it's not like any of us can say one country or another is being mistreated. Regardless of our less than acceptable history.

Which is why I said that I do not agree with what he is saying but in relation to this the Republic of Ireland being form doesn't prove anything in relation to this. Also if you really think that people are so stupid(I even include politicians in this) that they wouldn't still have economic union in some form I'll get the men in white coats for you.

If you think any normal person(as in anyone who is not Church of Ireland[Anglican]) in the Republic was getting anything like even human you are dead wrong. The only people who got that were other Protestants and then they were seen as dissenters and lesser people. Just look at stuff like the Penal Laws, Protestant Ascendency, Gerrymandering, The Guildford Four, what was allowed happen in several civil rights marches and much more. A lot of that stuff has only recently ended.

It wasn't pride that Irish people wanted Home Rule and eventually got a Republic and removed themselves from the common wealth. No we didn't just give England the two fingers and never talk to them again. They are one of our biggest economic trade partner(if not the biggest). This all despite tariff wars over the years and stuff being done like buying unbranded Irish dairy and meat then selling it as 100% UK made in the UK.

If anything despite all that the Republic of Ireland shows that this could actually work with the countries having separate governments that are closely tied through economic means.

Even though you may not personally believe Scotland is being mistreated now you are(probably) so far removed from such conflicts and tensions you don't understand how long people can hold a grudge and keep trying. Age old repression can go a long way despite new changes.

If the EU has proven anything it's that you cannot run a unified economy with completely separated governments. I don't care if the intent is to keep a unified trading set up. Without a unified government its going to fail.

And I didn't say Ireland weren't mistreated. Ofcourse they were. So was practically every country we could get our grubby hands on. I'm not saying England is any way innocent of anything. But right now both Scotland and NI are getting very good deals. They're not being mistreated in any way shape or form. And they need to think of things rationally. The best thing for everyone in the UK is for us to stay together. A 50 year old grudge is not a smart reason to ask for a referendum and people need to recognise that.

The EU doesn't have a unified economy and is nothing like a unified economy America is a lot closer to a unified economy than the EU and they have vastly different laws from State to State. I'll think you'll find this is a bit more than a 50 year grudge this stuff of wanting independence goes back nearly 1,000 years and in Scotland has seen a recent rise in popularity. This "grudge" is more than just a Margaret Thatcher thing.

Regardless, of whatever good deals they are getting if they want to leave they should be allowed to if it is put to a vote. The fact that trade agreement have existed and worked for years shows that it can work the EU is not a valid reason to show why it can't work since it has failed for reasons other than different governments.

 

[Griffolion]

I still haven't forgiven her for selling pretty much all of Britian's gold reserves for around 79p.

Also, the milk.

Never mess with a kid's milk.

Meh, Brown's mismanagement of Englands finances are far worse than Thatchers ever were: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/7511589/Explain-why-you-sold-Britains-gold-Gordon-Brown-told.html

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Ok I'm not agreeing with what he's saying but you're not helping and that is really low on the scale of things you could say. Ireland wanted separation because there was genuine abuse of the country and the indigenous population for years that has only stopped in the last decade or so.

I'd be the first one to call out the shit that our government does. But there are times when you have to put pride away and look at the larger picture. Separating 4 countries who economies are so closely linked, and have been for a long time, at this stage. It's downright fucking lunacy. And southern Ireland proved that. That's where all our countries will end up if we're forced to separate.

And right now, things being as they are. Both NI and Scotland aren't being mistreated by our unified government. Infact Scotland (the ones pushing a referendum) are getting a very good deal at the minute, because of the hickery do-dah about the north sea oil. The annual subsidiary, not having tot pay university tuition and preferential NHS treatment being most prominent.

At this stage in the game it's not like any of us can say one country or another is being mistreated. Regardless of our less than acceptable history.

Which is why I said that I do not agree with what he is saying but in relation to this the Republic of Ireland being form doesn't prove anything in relation to this. Also if you really think that people are so stupid(I even include politicians in this) that they wouldn't still have economic union in some form I'll get the men in white coats for you.

If you think any normal person(as in anyone who is not Church of Ireland[Anglican]) in the Republic was getting anything like even human you are dead wrong. The only people who got that were other Protestants and then they were seen as dissenters and lesser people. Just look at stuff like the Penal Laws, Protestant Ascendency, Gerrymandering, The Guildford Four, what was allowed happen in several civil rights marches and much more. A lot of that stuff has only recently ended.

It wasn't pride that Irish people wanted Home Rule and eventually got a Republic and removed themselves from the common wealth. No we didn't just give England the two fingers and never talk to them again. They are one of our biggest economic trade partner(if not the biggest). This all despite tariff wars over the years and stuff being done like buying unbranded Irish dairy and meat then selling it as 100% UK made in the UK.

If anything despite all that the Republic of Ireland shows that this could actually work with the countries having separate governments that are closely tied through economic means.

Even though you may not personally believe Scotland is being mistreated now you are(probably) so far removed from such conflicts and tensions you don't understand how long people can hold a grudge and keep trying. Age old repression can go a long way despite new changes.

If the EU has proven anything it's that you cannot run a unified economy with completely separated governments. I don't care if the intent is to keep a unified trading set up. Without a unified government its going to fail.

And I didn't say Ireland weren't mistreated. Ofcourse they were. So was practically every country we could get our grubby hands on. I'm not saying England is any way innocent of anything. But right now both Scotland and NI are getting very good deals. They're not being mistreated in any way shape or form. And they need to think of things rationally. The best thing for everyone in the UK is for us to stay together. A 50 year old grudge is not a smart reason to ask for a referendum and people need to recognise that.

The EU doesn't have a unified economy and is nothing like a unified economy America is a lot closer to a unified economy than the EU and they have vastly different laws from State to State. I'll think you'll find this is a bit more than a 50 year grudge this stuff of wanting independence goes back nearly 1,000 years and in Scotland has seen a recent rise in popularity. This "grudge" is more than just a Margaret Thatcher thing.

Regardless, of whatever good deals they are getting if they want to leave they should be allowed to if it is put to a vote. The fact that trade agreement have existed and worked for years shows that it can work the EU is not a valid reason to show why it can't work since it has failed for reasons other than different governments.

That was my point. Using the same currency over a multitude of countries all with different ideas of how to handle it is a bad fucking idea.

And I never said this grudge was to do with Margret Thatcher either. I don't freaking care what it's to do with. It's not in anybodies best interest and it's fucking stupid.

The quante nationalism that we have in the UK stops being funny when it begins to seriously and negatively effect everyone. I know the running joke is everyone hates the English. As if each of us are somehow responsible for what our government gets up to. But the minute that hatred goes from a bit of banter to ripping apart a union, a union we all need. Somethings gone horribly wrong. National pride shouldn't enter into it.

Ok well that's fair enough.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I still haven't forgiven her for selling pretty much all of Britian's gold reserves for around 79p.

Also, the milk.

Never mess with a kid's milk.

Meh, Brown's mismanagement of Englands finances are far worse than Thatchers ever were: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/7511589/Explain-why-you-sold-Britains-gold-Gordon-Brown-told.html

There's a lesson to be learned here.

Don't trust politicians to look after the shiny things.

 

[illas]

Also, I'd like to point out that in Britain this film is rated 12A - not suitable for minors. I'd like to think that was an intentional bit of wordplay.

Oh, that is brilliant. Spectacularly well played.

I think this video from Mock The Week pretty much sums up the national attitude towards Maggie, especially up North.

"...For three million pounds they could give everyone in Scotland a shovel and we would dig a hole so deep that we could hand her over to Satan personally".
God I miss Frankie Boyle.

OT: A one-dimensional portrait of someone so divisive that dwells on her big political decisions without clearly showing the consequences of those actions... is clearly flawed, to say the least.

 

[Xhoyl]

People need to stop bagging on Thatcher. Her economic policies were a necessary evil that prevented England's economy from completely collapsing. Watch The Commanding Heights PBS special and you'll understand why. Maybe try to learn something.

 

[GLo Jones]

How did I just know that the comments section would become filled with angry debate and just plain hate?

Anyway, her reforms only really harmed 'the North'. So what's the big deal? It's not like anything matters up there.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Good to see MovieBob still knows how to jump on a bandwagon. Yeah, the movie is a bit too tame for my taste as well, but the fashionable political position comes through a bit too much in the review for my taste.