Escape to the Movies: The Dark Knight Rises

[Darth_Payn]

I don't know what everybody's whining about; The Dark Knight Rises was great! Yeah, it couldn't outdo its predecessor and maybe juggled too many big ideas at once, and some of the characters got into speeches in their dialogue, but it's still a great movie with brains and brawn that leaves you wanting to know what happens next,and you won't be disappointed. lighten up, folks!

 

[Darth_Payn]

So what is the quote from Kingdom Come?

I think it might have been

Spoiler

"So that's what that feels like"

Remind us: who said that in which scene?
Edit: Whoops, never mind. The Deadpool already answered that one.

 

[jaketaz]

I agree. And it's not Nolan's job to satisfy all the desires of every Batman fan, it's his job to challenge us as viewers, if not to challenge his fellow filmmakers! I had tears in my eyes at the end, which rarely happens to me in a movie period, much less a superhero one.

Aside from visceral, emotional, reaction what part of this film do you think challenged any viewer or any other filmmaker?

None of it, that's what I meant exactly. Also I never said other opinions should be silenced.

 

[acosn]

The movie parts of it were done well. Visually speaking its about what you'd expect from the folks involved in making it.

On the other hand the writing is weak, and the plot doesn't hold up under even basic scrutiny.

 

[jaketaz]

I agree. And it's not Nolan's job to satisfy all the desires of every Batman fan, it's his job to challenge us as viewers, if not to challenge his fellow filmmakers! I had tears in my eyes at the end, which rarely happens to me in a movie period, much less a superhero one.

And I'm going to tell you the truth: both times Batman fights Bane, it's fucking cool. There's nothing "underwhelming" about it as MovieBob said. I found the general tone of a lot of this review unappreciative and hypocritical. It seemed like he didn't appreciate Nolan's efforts to make a superhero movie that's actually important people beyond comic fans, and that will have an impact beyond its box-office draw. MovieBob also knocks this movie for not really being "about much of anything", even though he was fine with the much simpler message of The Avengers.

It is about something. It's about Batman saving Gotham, and that simplistic plot is done in the most heart-and-gut-wrenching manner that has ever been attempted by any filmmaker.

At the end of the day, this is what The Avengers was: a popcorn flick. Comfort food. A blockbuster and nothing more. A GOOD blockbuster, but not anything evocative like Lord of the Rings, the Godfather, Schindler's List, etc. You walk out of it saying "I had fun and was entertained.", not "I feel like something touched my soul and mind". The latter is what Nolan's films are.

My personal thoughts: this is the best movie I've seen since Inception. It's not quite as good as Dark Knight but the difference is literally a paper-thin margin. If Dark Knight was the Godfather of superhero movies, then Rises is the Return of the King. It's a perfect capstone to the greatest comic/superhero trilogy ever and I wait with bated breath to see what Nolan does in the future as he has pretty much cemented himself as the new Spielberg (as well as the god-emperor of superhero films). It's the best movie of the summer and maybe of the year. Everyone is great in their parts even if there isn't an incredible standout like the Joker (which was a one-in-a-million thing) and the narrative is a rollercoaster that brings you down and lifts you up and has a TON of fanboy moments.

Also, somebody pointed out to me that while this didn't have a villain like Joker, it was also a rare case of a Batman story where Batman was the most interesting thing! There was a ton going on with him through the whole movie, so it was fine that Bane wasn't as iconic as Joker.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Worse than the Avengers? Nah, can't be worse than the Avengers; that movie was just terrible. Most disappointing movie of 2012 so far. Suppose I'll see in a week or two.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Ya know, I thought that people got warnings on these forums for calling other people trolls. I know I sure did, when I called out someone`s trolling. (Maybe they had to whine to the Moderators that someone was being mean to them for it to be done, hrm.)

The Avengers was a terribly disappointing movie, and I just don't see where so many fanboys are squee'ing themselves over it. Take out the Hulk`s fighting at the end, take out Black Widow's short "interrogation" scene, and the movie is terrible. It starts off with a rather boring sequence, the recruitment scenes (aside from Widow's interrogation scene) are barely meh with a healthy dose of "This is stupid even for a comic book movie." (see: Thor vs Iron Man vs Captain America on the mountain top.) Then once the team is "assembled" it turns into the Bruce and Tony Banter Show, where Thor, Cap, Widow and Fury are left with barely anything to say, and what they do say is rather anemic at best. Next up is a somewhat interesting fight on the Helicarrier before the only parts of the movie that are in any way worthy of a portion of the praise people have heaped onto it, which are the scenes where the Hulk is fighting the Chitauri giant flying bone things, the Hulk fighting the CGFBT's with Thor, and the Hulk fighting Loki.

Those scenes made the movie worth the price of admission, but take away those scenes and we'd be moaning about the Avengers being about as good as Green Lantern.

Yeah you're right about the troll alerts; I got dinged for it.

 

[gorfias]

Could someone explain the significance of that quote for those unfamiliar with Kingdom Come?

Sorry if I'm ninjad. Upon reflection and belief, Bruce Wayne, broken and older, uses and exo-skeleton just to move around in his Batcave. Superman comes and tells him Batman is needed to fight of Captain Marvel (Lex Luthor drove him mad and deadly) and a bunch of other super villains. Bruce is like, "1, is that my responsibility? I warned you about fascism, and 2,I AM HUMAN, what do you expect me to do against Captain Marvel!?!?" Superman is pissed that Bruce will not, apparently, help out and takes off, leaving Bruce talking to himself, to which he mutters that line.

IMHO: That has nothing to do with why the line is in the movie when Catwoman disappears. It's just sauce for the goose.

Heh, I think this is just a spoof of that scene:

 

[faefrost]

Could someone explain the significance of that quote for those unfamiliar with Kingdom Come?

In Kingdom Come Batman is talking to Superman while turned away, when he turns back Superman is already gone. Having silently rushed off and disapeared halfway through the conversation. The joke is that is Batman's traditional exit, and it is the first time anyone has done it to him.

In the movie Anne Hathaway mimicks this exit prompting the line.

 

[faefrost]

I find the criticisms of the structure and pacing extremely odd; despite its length Rises is easily the fastest moving of the trilogy, and the one with the strongest story arc. The construction of Rises' script has a definite edge over Dark Knight's, even if the end product isn't quite as good because it lacks...dead horse alert...a villain as flamboyant and entertaining as Heath Ledger's Joker. Dark Knight crescendos at the 90 minute mark and spends the second half of the film trying to regain the momentum it's lost. The material with Harvey and (especially) the ferries rigged to explode just isn't as compelling as the beginning with the Joker and the mob. Ledger pretty much carried the entire last hour of DK on his shoulders. That he pulled it off more than justified his Oscar win. Bane's plot, on the other hand, lends Rises a lot more narrative thrust and does a nice job of tying into plotlines established in Batman Begins in satisfying, if not unexpected, ways.

I agree. And it's not Nolan's job to satisfy all the desires of every Batman fan, it's his job to challenge us as viewers, if not to challenge his fellow filmmakers! I had tears in my eyes at the end, which rarely happens to me in a movie period, much less a superhero one.

And I'm going to tell you the truth: both times Batman fights Bane, it's fucking cool. There's nothing "underwhelming" about it as MovieBob said. I found the general tone of a lot of this review unappreciative and hypocritical. It seemed like he didn't appreciate Nolan's efforts to make a superhero movie that's actually important people beyond comic fans, and that will have an impact beyond its box-office draw. MovieBob also knocks this movie for not really being "about much of anything", even though he was fine with the much simpler message of The Avengers.

It is about something. It's about Batman saving Gotham, and that simplistic plot is done in the most heart-and-gut-wrenching manner that has ever been attempted by any filmmaker.

And Nolan fully challenged us in TDK. He kept us on our toes. Both classic batfans and the regular movie going public. We did not know what was going to happen next. It was a great story. It was a great Batman story. It was something we had never seen before.

TDKR's not so much. It's a good story. It's a fun summer movie. It isn't awful. It isn't Batman and Robin. But it does have it's flaws that prevent it from hitting the level of it's predecessor. The overall story is highly derivative of some of the prior comics works(granted it is a comic book movie), There are times where a few of the established and classic characters feel a bit off. (sorry guys but the whole Bruce Wayne in the foreign prison pit sequence was just horrible. It alone is what ads to so much of the negative vibes and is what kills the films pacing midway).

Go see it. It's well worth the price of admission. But accept that no it isn't the greatest thing ever made. It isn't high art or some vast new re-imagining of the mythos. In fact by the end one almost gets the feeling that the whole thing ended up somewhat constrained and hamstrung by that original re-imagining back in BB. Little changes that seemed trivial start to pile up to where you are starting to look for a payoff that can't possibly be there. people seem to want this to be some sort of great work of cinematic high art. TDK mainly was. This one is a great slightly more intelligent summer popcorn flick.

 

[Don Reba]

[user]Gorfias[/user], [user]faefrost[/user] - thank you for your great explanations!

 

[blueb0g]

Your review's bad and you should feel bad

 

[Monty McDougal]

So what is the quote from Kingdom Come?

"So, that's what that feels like."

Except replace Superman with Selina Kyle.

OHhhhh I loved that part. Ok thanks

 

[Bellvedere]

Overall I enjoyed the film. It was far better than so many movies that I've seen recently.

That said it didn't live up to BB or TDK and there's a lot in the review that I agree with.

BB and TDK were such powerful films. TDKR not only doesn't match them for big moments it actually diminishes the choices and sacrifices made in the previous films. I don't think it was a bad film, but I do think that it was the worst film in the series.

Throughout the films there has been this idea that Gotham is full of selfish corrupt people. After BB corrupt cops were running scared and there was hope in the streets. In TDK although the Joker wins by bring down Dent, it's shown on the boats that the people of Gotham aren't bad when neither boat will destroy the other to save themselves. There was a pattern of improvement, that Batman was making progress saving the people of Gotham.

Now in the TDKR, Gotham is back to being full of only selfish and corrupt people?
I know that there's been peace for eight years but surely that makes people better not worse. In the previous two films there was this idea that there were good people, or that people could make good choices. In this one there was nothing. Only the main cast did anything good, not the people of Gotham. Which served to make the sacrifices Batman made in the previous films irrelevant. It also feels weak that with one bomb these new villains were able to create the sort of chaos that the Joker failed to.

I don't actually hate the idea that he came back twice. Though I agree that it did make the first part of the movie slow. The injured limp thing felt unnecessary but I guess in keeping with the theme of pain?

As to why he wasn't ready to come back the first time, that felt a little forced. There was a lot of emphasis on his motivation. He actually had excellent motivation. Gotham was in trouble, Wayne Enterprises was falling apart and could no longer do the good work it had been doing. He was accused of wanting to die by Alfred then of being scared of death in the prison.

In addition to being scared of death the prison characters also say that he couldn't climb out of the prison because he had a privileged upbringing. Which was already dealt with in BB. He ran away with nothing before becoming batman. Sure he had it easier than the kid born in the prison but its not like he's ignorant of what it's like to be poor or a criminal. If the reference back to BB had been more significant then it might have made sense learning to be batman again but the only flashback was the Dad asking "Why do we fall?".

The "death/sacrifice" thing just seemed unnecessarily cruel. That means that he just let all the people that loved him think he was dead. Wouldn't be so bad if they all just saw him fly off in the plane which at least fox knew didn't have an autopilot. But he specifically said "There's no autopilot". Dick move Batman. Seriously what's the point of explicitly telling everyone your going to die then explicitly giving them signs to show that your alive?

Also more plot holes then you can poke a stick at. Good movie, disappointing end to the trilogy.

 

[faefrost]

The "death/sacrifice" thing just seemed unnecessarily cruel. That means that he just let all the people that loved him think he was dead. Wouldn't be so bad if they all just saw him fly off in the plane which at least fox knew didn't have an autopilot. But he specifically said "There's no autopilot". Dick move Batman. Seriously what's the point of explicitly telling everyone your going to die then explicitly giving them signs to show that your alive?

Also more plot holes then you can poke a stick at. Good movie, disappointing end to the trilogy.

The very end was basically a semi clone of the ending of Frank Millers Dark Knight Returns. Which almost makes it worse.

 

[Preacher zer0]

Do want Movie Bob in depth analysis of all 3 movies as a trilogy.

Full of spoilers and every minute detail scrutinized.

I just watched Begins and TDK back to back and I'm going to see Rises (for the second time) in a couple of hours.

I want to see how all 3 feel as one continuous story.

 

[Jaeke]

Just saw the movie.

Not watching MovieBob anymore.

 

[Price0331]

Just saw the movie.

Not watching MovieBob anymore.

I totally agree with you. He's a hack compared to the guys over at redlettermedia. I have stopped watching him since his Captain America review, where it was obvious that his love for the source material really puts some thick rose-tinted glasses in front of his face. I also can't stand the amount of people who respond .2 seconds after this video is posted saying "called it" and "won't see it now". Really, you should do yourselves a favor and see it in the theaters while you can. He's a hack, with hack opinions.

 

[Mr_Jellyfish]

Careful, some people might actually call you a troll for saying that the Avengers was anything but the best movie of the summer.

Avengers was anything but the best movie of the summer.

PS: no troll-calling followed. The way is safe.

The way is safe? In that case, I'd like to follow up my previous statement by saying WOW. MovieBob, I love you, and I don't want to sound like a fanboy but The Avengers better than Dark Knight Rises? No.

Maybe it's a comic book thing, I don't know, I don't read comics and maybe that disqualifies me (it shouldn't) but The Avengers was a rubbish movie, it was just another dumb blockbuster that favours "zingers" and "quips" over realistic dialogue, an ending that looked like Transformers and endless shots that seemed to scream LOOK HOW COOL THIS IS at the audience (the bit where it pans round the group?). It was like watching someone masturbate.
I know that sounds harsh, and the truth is it didn't offend me like, say, Transformers did, but I'm sick of it getting all this undeserved praise! It was a big, stupid mess of a movie without meaningful relationships, without suspense, without humanity. The Hulk and Thor were OK, the rest either eye clawingly annoying (Iron Man) or may as well not exist (the women in the sexy clothes, The bow and arrow dude).

I had misgivings about the idea of The Avengers before I saw the movie, but gave it a go based on all the love it's getting. It's just another toy commercial with a bunch of ironic, self aware dudes quiping and beating each other up (?!) with a woman who basically represents boobs. I don't see why this is getting an easy ride and crap like Battleship doesn't.

Like I said, I love you MovieBob, but your love of super heroes and comics overrides your usually top notch analysis of films!

 

[lead sharp]

Seen it. It's three hours of my life I won't get back.