Escape to the Movies: The Lone Ranger

[1337mokro]

This centuries 90's period came quite early it seems. Everything is DARK and HIGH OCTANE ACTION!

Everything is also incredibly boring, I didn't grow up with the Lone Ranger but even I am outraged at this horseshit, you could have made a nice action movie with this but instead money grubbing executives once again felt they had to pick up a pen and write a mandated script.

 

[Abomination]

I don't think its that big a deal that Johnny Depp plays tonto, isn't the point of acting to take on the role of someone you're not?

Yeah but it's only okay if you're not white, apparently.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

Given the fact that casting Johnny Depp as Tonto is perhaps the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas from Hollywood, I don't blame Bob for spoiling the hell out of this

Problem is, it probably won't tank. Not that it will set box offices ablaze or anything, but it has all the right pieces (as Bob points out via Smithers and Burns) to attract the lowest common denominator crowd. Even quasi-movie-buffs will notice that the first Pirates movie worked best, partly because Orlando Bloom played a proper straight-man to balance out Depp's antics, and as such, might Army Ham might fill the same role here.


I do hope it tanks. But I feel it's much more likely that it does decent business, and we get a sequel... or just another movie with Depp in a silly hat.

 

[CharlesCarmichael]

Why did The Lone Ranger HAVE to be similar to Pirates of The Caribbean? Why COULDN'T it have its own distinct framework to tell its own story? Why couldn't have actually been about, ya know, THE LONE RANGER doing distinct Lone Ranger stuff? Why do we have to bring in elements of other properties instead of relying on what made Lone Ranger uniquely the Lone Ranger in the first place? Keep the heart of The Lone Ranger intact, update it a bit if you want to fit modern times or have a fun throwback homage, and just have a simple tale like that. What's the point of trying to combine two distinctly different franchises together for little to no apparent reason (other than the obvious: well it's KINDA like _____ so you'll like us naow, right?!")

Hmm, I think we may be approaching the heart of the issue. I have no experience with the Lone Ranger, beyond being aware of the characters' names, the silver bullets, and the William Tell Overture. So coming into it I had no conception of what a Lone Ranger movie 'should' be. So POTC meets Spaghetti Western with shades of Chinatown was 100% fine with me. You, apparently, have in your mind what 'Lone Ranger: The Movie' should be (most likely based on the TV show), and when you got themes of POTC you rejected the disparity.

That's a perfectly valid perspective, especially nowadays with lots of games following the same trajectory of taking the themes old games and slapping them on new mechanics; Syndicate is an example of a game that does this poorly, Fallout 3 is an example of a game that does it well. But like Fallout, just because it's a bad 'Lone Ranger Movie' (whatever that means) doesn't mean it's a bad movie.

 

[BabySinclair]

I feel compelled to ask:

People complained about Idris Elba playing Heimdall. They were greeted with "stop being so closed-minded! it's just a movie and Idris is a great actor."

Johnny Depp plays Tonto, and it's extremely racist. Please don't get me wrong. When I heard Idris was playing Hemidall I knew people would get offended, but I didn't see anything wrong with it. Some made the argument "what if they got a white man to play John Shaft?" and I think it's valid.

With Depp playing Tonto, I again expected this negativity, but can anyone explain the double standard?

Heimdall's character is not defined by his race/skin tone. He is the guardian of the Bifrost and Asgard. Tonto on the other hand is defined partially by his ethnicity as a Native American, like how the Prince of Persia is you know, Persian. John Shaft is defined by his race. It's central to understanding him as a character as a inner-city cop at the crossroad of the economic struggles by those in the black community and the system dictated/created by white people. Those last three each share a part of their cultural heritage as a fragment of their character. Heimdall is Asgardian, an alien, skin tone is rather less important.

And the whole for every minority role in the media today there are dozens of white roles, even when the character's skin color doesn't matter so shifting in favor of a minority is far less important than shifting away from roles for actors in the minority.

 

[luckshot]

and i really wanted this movie to be good, despite depp in a part he really didnt need to be in

some one needs to pick up all these broken super hero ips and either put them down or do good work with them

edit: and i do remember watching some reruns of the old lone ranger show as well as some others way back in time

 

[Pyrian]

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

That's cherry picking, there have been many Native American Groups speaking out against the casting of Johnny Depp.

I don't think the Comanche take on Johnny Depp playing a Comanche qualifies as cherry-picking.

 

[Kuth]

So, let me make sure I understand this:

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

Movie Bob: "It is wrong on so many levels for Johnny Depp to be playing Tanto."

When the actual Native Americans have less objection than you do, perhaps your position is less reasonable than you think.

Not only that, but Tonto was seen as very racist in his first incarnations. He spoke in broken english, it was actually called Tontoisim for a style of haiku used with few articles.

Tonto is a very racist character, and Bob is bitching about the racist Indian not being 'properly' acted by a Nativer American. Bob, what self respecting Native American would actually play Tonto? You can't have a double standards about this. Why? You made an entire show how Idris Elba playing Heimdall was perfectly fine, and people need to grow up. You know what? That's you right now.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Bob. If Idris can play a white role, then Johnny can do the same thing for Tonto. Unless you want to make an argument how movies need to be racist by restricting roles to certain races for the sake of 'accuracy'. Black man can play white role, but White man can't play Red man's role? Is that the logic train you are riding on? You just crossed on the Political Correctness line, and you better get off to the next station if any sort of sanity remains with you.

 

[CharlesCarmichael]

Heck You could have even done something else COMPLETELY different than Lone Ranger or Pirates of the Caribbean all together (and most people probably wouldn't have noticed either way).

I believe there's a saying about things being broke and fixing them. Yes, Johnny Depp's playing essentially the same role in a different movie, but so what? There's dozens of actors that do the same thing, it's just that Johnny is in the rare subset that gets to do it with a large budget behind him. Is the plot similar to POTC? Sure, but if you boil it down to 'A crazy guy and a straight man go after bad guys who have kidnapped someone important to the straight man,' then a bunch of other movies fall into it as well (Lethal Weapon, off the top of my head). It ain't Shakespeare, but there's a common simple theme that gives them the bones to hang their performance off of.

And you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not envoking the name of freakin CHINATOWN with this forgettable piece of nothing...

I'm sorry, I thought I'd invoke the name because it evoked some of the same themes of a powerful and respected man using his power and position to rob property from the innocent. Like the Crazy Guy/Straight Man it's a common theme that is used in MANY different movies.

 

[kickyourass]

Hollywood, I ask this out of genuine curiosity, how did you fuck this up? An adaptation of The Lone Ranger is one of the simplest, most idiot proof ideas I can think of, Cowboy, Native American sidekick, they beat up bad guys together. How hard is that?

I never expected this movie to be good, I figured it'd be 'so bad it's good' at best, 'utterly forgettable' at worst, but god damn I never expected it to be this terrible. Even putting aside the absolutely horrible idea of casting Johnny Depp as Tonto, something this simple should not be that hard!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I feel compelled to ask:

People complained about Idris Elba playing Heimdall. They were greeted with "stop being so closed-minded! it's just a movie and Idris is a great actor."

Johnny Depp plays Tonto, and it's extremely racist. Please don't get me wrong. When I heard Idris was playing Hemidall I knew people would get offended, but I didn't see anything wrong with it. Some made the argument "what if they got a white man to play John Shaft?" and I think it's valid.

With Depp playing Tonto, I again expected this negativity, but can anyone explain the double standard?

I'm not bothered by Depp playing Tonto, and it honestly gives me pause. I ask myself "shouldn't this be something that offends you?" But then I answer myself "You weren't offended when they hired a black man to play the whitest of the gods, so why would a white man playing a native american offend you?

My thoughts exactly, because it seems all well and good when movies look "progressive" but heaven forbid that the tables are turned and a White guy does the exact same thing that Idris Elba did.

OP:Ignoring the political correctness commentary in the beginning, this video basically confirmed what I thought about the movie when I first saw it. That said, I would like to see more movies that explore Native American culture, specifically horror movies about the Windigo.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I feel compelled to ask:

People complained about Idris Elba playing Heimdall. They were greeted with "stop being so closed-minded! it's just a movie and Idris is a great actor."

Johnny Depp plays Tonto, and it's extremely racist. Please don't get me wrong. When I heard Idris was playing Hemidall I knew people would get offended, but I didn't see anything wrong with it. Some made the argument "what if they got a white man to play John Shaft?" and I think it's valid.

With Depp playing Tonto, I again expected this negativity, but can anyone explain the double standard?

Heimdall's character is not defined by his race/skin tone. He is the guardian of the Bifrost and Asgard. Tonto on the other hand is defined partially by his ethnicity as a Native American, like how the Prince of Persia is you know, Persian. John Shaft is defined by his race. It's central to understanding him as a character as a inner-city cop at the crossroad of the economic struggles by those in the black community and the system dictated/created by white people. Those last three each share a part of their cultural heritage as a fragment of their character. Heimdall is Asgardian, an alien, skin tone is rather less important.

And the whole for every minority role in the media today there are dozens of white roles, even when the character's skin color doesn't matter so shifting in favor of a minority is far less important than shifting away from roles for actors in the minority.

Tell me again on how being a Norse God wouldn't make you look like the Norse people(see:Scandinavia)? You really think that the ancient Scandinavians believed that one of their gods looks like a Black Guy? Tell me, do you also think that the ancient Greeks thought that Aries looked like an Chinese guy? Get serious, Idris playing Hemidall makes about as much sense as Jackie Chan playing Aries.

 

[Lunar Templar]

*shrugs* I didn't care about the Lone Ranger anyway, honestly the worst part of the whole review for me is the Shredder related news

 

[Pyrian]

Tell me again on how being a Norse God wouldn't make you look like the Norse people(see:Scandinavia)?

There are an enormous number of Gods of various cultures that do not look anything like the people of that culture. Also, keep in mind that in the fiction under discussion, the "Gods" are not a result of Norse culture, but rather an alien predecessor. If all they knew of Heimdall was what they'd been told of his duties, their depictions of him would not necessarily carry any real meaning.

 

[busterkeatonrules]

Funny, it seems like Bob hated the movie for all the same reasons as I myself enjoyed it.

I think Johnny Depp works well as Tonto. He is clearly giving the character all he's got, which as usual is very nearly enough to carry the entire movie himself. Besides, the Tonto character has always been, to some extent, a stereotype. Casting Depp is a perfect way of not only acknowledging this, but also make the most out of it.

As for the Lone Ranger, we must keep in mind that he started out as the unfailing, one-dimensional hero of an adventure series in 1933. He is the classic all-American, dime-a-dozen, white-hatted, Colgate-smiling, squeaky-clean idol of wide-eyed children everywhere. He is a gunslinger who always outdraws his opponent, and never misses. He is the white in black-and-white morality. He is the centerpiece of a fictional world specifically tailored to accommodate his boyscout philosophy.

He is a cowboy who has never stepped in a cow pie.

What do you think would happen if this character was removed from his usual surroundings and plonked down in the Old West as it is portrayed in more modern media? Yeah. They haven't changed the Lone Ranger into a parody of himself. All they have done is change the world which surrounds him. Most of the movie is a fish-on-land story, with the Ranger stumbling through this strange new setting, determined to survive and persevere either entirely on his own terms, or not at all. And in doing this, he manages to play both the hero AND the fool. Respect.

Is Tonto a mystic or a madman? Is he right about Butch Cavendish being a wendigo, or did he simply lose his mind along with everything else that Cavendish took from him? I think the movie is actively trying to make this as ambiguous as possible. Notice that the silver actually IS implied to be cursed, as seen when the Ranger picks up a lump of it in Red's saloon. The tribesman who reveals Tonto's backstory clearly leans towards the "madman" theory - but he doesn't seem to care that much about Tonto, nor know him very well. Yes, there IS every chance that Tonto simply sees Cavendish as he wants to see him - but by the same token, it is also entirely possible that the tribesman is oversimplifying his own view of Tonto!

Certainly, Butch Cavendish is a human being. But he is also a monster. Disfigured, greedy, even cannibalistic - he might well have stepped right out of someone's nightmare. We never really find out if he is possessed or not. A fancy CGI wendigo like Bob asks for, would have eliminated all doubt - and wouldn't have been nearly as scary. Paradoxically, Butch Cavendish's humanity is the most menacing thing about him.

In short, damn near everything about the movie is widely open for multiple interpretations. Did the Ranger come back from the dead? Is the horse an emissary from the spirit world, or just the horse equivalent of a total weirdo? The Lone Ranger may well appear as a different movie to different people, and I think that's an awesome thing to pull off!

This movie has done the impossible: Introduce the ultimate Western adventure cliché to a modern audience in a remotely believable fashion. It is a bit rough in places, but it WORKS. It is funny. It is thrilling. It is everything an adventure movie should be.

And I, for one, would heartily recommend it.

[small]Also, Depp's interpretation of Tonto bears an uncanny similarity to the acting style of Buster Keaton. I suspect that this may be intentional, as the climactic train chase apparently owes a lot to Keaton's 1927 masterpiece The General - complete with dangerous debris on the tracks, a sabotaged bridge, and a single man hijacking a train and creatively fighting off pursuers. This MAY have swayed my view of the movie somewhat - but I did enjoy the other stuff, too![/small]

 

[daxterx2005]

sounds like an interesting book.