Escape to the Movies: The Lone Ranger

WanderingFool

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So... Eric Sachs... Is there something funny about this other than it sounds like "Eric sucks"?

Maybe its a mythlogical factor...
 

maximara

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From the review this film seems to take the Far Side cartoon joke where kemosabe is "an Apache expression for a horse's rear end" and the older joke of it being a corruption of the Spanish phrase "quien no sabe" (?he who doesn?t understand?) throw them into a blender and then run with the result.

I guess the only thankful thing is that it didn't take the Spanish meaning of Tonto ("stupid") seriously for the character though that meaning seem to apply to the whole movie. Considering Native American writer Sherman Alexie claimed in 1996 that "They were calling each other ?idiot? all those years." the term somehow fits this movie.
 

Sacman

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Seldon2639 said:
So, let me make sure I understand this:

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

Movie Bob: "It is wrong on so many levels for Johnny Depp to be playing Tanto."

When the actual Native Americans have less objection than you do, perhaps your position is less reasonable than you think.
Yeah... as seemingly the resident Native American on the Escapist I can say that I really don;t give a damn about Johnny Depp playing Tanto, I mean I haven't seen the movie... but at face value I really couldn't care less... and honestly I like Johnny Depp, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was great...<.<

And seriously, what Native Americans were they gonna get to play Tonto? Lou Diamond Philips? because that one quarter Indian totally makes the role PC... seriously... Native American actors just don't really exist...<.<
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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One thing though, about Johnny's casting - why is it bad that he's white? I'm more offput by the fact that he doesn't SEEM remotely native American, and the costume is ridiculous. But were he white and still good for the part, why should it matter? They're not casting white people specifically to marginalise natives, they're clearly doing it because Depp has name recognition value, which would be fine with me - IF he were any good for the part.

And as for the Shredder, I am so thankful not to be attached to too many of the series that were on when I was a child, because they're being murdered and the corpses displayed. My bet is it's a quick, cheap attempt to cash in on the whole anti-corporate thing the US in particular has going on, which was sort of the same vibe I got from the latest Batman, and as someone who doesn't live in the US I don't really appreciate it, just like when Cerberus was described as a terrorist organisation in ME and we're all expected to reconsider our opinions. But yeah. Not necessarily one to judge before the final product is revealed, but it's a fucking trainwreck on paper.

I'm hoping they never get their hands on Astro Boy, personally, or he'll be the US military's top secret weapon and have to fight a bunch of experimental mechs stolen by terrorists to defend the US.
 

vid87

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My big question as this got closer to release wasn't "will it suck?" (of course it would - just didn't know this badly), but "how is a cowboy movie - anchored by supposed safe-bet Depp - going to stack up a the BO?"

The numbers so far aren't good, and while I want to believe it's about just no wanting to see obvious crap, these are the points Disney may take away from what I was assuming will become this year's John Carter (going by BO only, not actual quality of film itself):

-Unless Pirates 5 and Alice 2 do well, Depp may have reached over-saturation and, at 50, is looking at the end of his megastar career.

-The cowboy genre is dead as a blockbuster.

-Disney stops with the lesser known properties and focuses exclusively on their juggernauts, Marvel and Star Wars.


That's probably all for the best, but it also means that they miss the biggest point:

Stop. Making. Crap.
 

Childe

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I didn't think that the lone ranger deserved the hating it's getting. Sure it's not an Oscar level film but its not THAT bad. It came across to me as a message film. *SPOILERS*.
So Armie Hammer starts off the film as a naive young city lawyer and a large part of the film is about him coming to terms with what justice and real life is. I thought movie bob was unjust in critizing the actions of Armie Hammer because of that. His actions were SUPPOSED to be duffus actions because that allows for a contrast between his nativity and the rest of the characters. Even Tonto in his mind cracked state is far more world savey then Hammer and it's supposed to show.
I thought this film was less about the story and more about the message. And speaking of story I also think Movie Bob was unfair in saying the story jumps around. Part of the fault of that is the flashback way in which it was told-which i hated- but as far as the plot line goes it was rather coherent. It might seem like the plot is jumping around but that is because you and the characters are learning of the past while in the present, both in the story and through the flashbacks. But other then that, the story is about two men's greed, not about the railroad or anything else. Everything else is simply there so that the men can get the money that they want.
As for Johnny Depp's Tonto, since the native american tribe in question made him an honorary native american I'm pretty sure everyones claims about it being wrong on so many different levels are completely invalid.

Anyway those are my two cents. Thoughts?

EDIT: Oh ya message. So the message which could be taken a number of different ways is about greed (obviously). I mean you have these two guys who wipe out an entire village of native americans and then spend 20 years infiltrating the railroads and becoming major outlaws in order to get the silver. Now whether this is a message as to the greed of corporations or the greed of individual men is up to the viewer. Personally i think the message leans more towards the corporations because of little talk that the head of the railroad committee had with Hammer. It could also be more then greed and just simply the corruption of the corporations. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into this.
 

Winthrop

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SonOfVoorhees said:
Really Bob? Stupid hat? You start by berating Depp for playing Tonto as he is a white guy and then go on to insult the crow hat thing even though thats authentic native american head gear. Its why Depp wore that, because the indians did, he took that from seeing old photos of actual native americans. Granted, im guessing it was probably more for ceremonies and not on a day to day basis, but still its authentic.
Actually its not. Its based on a historically inaccurate (though still pretty damn good) painting of a native american warrior with a crow in the background that looks kind of like a hat. Source: http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2012/04/johnny-depp-explains-his-bird-hat Additionally I think Bob was making the point that dressing someone up in what essentially amounts to a racist caricature for laughs isn't appropriate in this day and age.
 

ACman

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Heh. The pre-roll I got for this was an ad for the Lone Ranger. I'm not sure if that is good placement or a waste.
 

uchytjes

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Winthrop said:
SonOfVoorhees said:
Really Bob? Stupid hat? You start by berating Depp for playing Tonto as he is a white guy and then go on to insult the crow hat thing even though thats authentic native american head gear. Its why Depp wore that, because the indians did, he took that from seeing old photos of actual native americans. Granted, im guessing it was probably more for ceremonies and not on a day to day basis, but still its authentic.
Actually its not. Its based on a historically inaccurate (though still pretty damn good) painting of a native american warrior with a crow in the background that looks kind of like a hat. Source: http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2012/04/johnny-depp-explains-his-bird-hat Additionally I think Bob was making the point that dressing someone up in what essentially amounts to a racist caricature for laughs isn't appropriate in this day and age.
But the thing is, the character is completely insane due to the murder of his entire village. The rest of the natives in the film (with their short appearance) do actually seem to be fairly accurate. Hell, as the movie was coming out I wondered what would have been more racist: The fact that Johnny Depp was playing a native or if an actual native were to play his part. On one hand, we have a white person portraying another race, but on the other we have someone of the actual race being played for laughs about stereotypes. Honestly, I'd take the whole casting as light commentary on white people that claim to be part native: They get the culture wrong.
 

knight steel

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Interesting fact on the set of the Lone Ranger Johnny Depp could be heard singing this often-this is a copy of the lyrics:

I'm so white
You're so Brown
Once I go Brown I never go back
I'm so white
You're so Brown
I wanna be at where you are at

I'm so white
You're so Brown
My skin color is a minor setback
I'm so white and you're so Brown

I wanna change
From the palest gray to the darkest day
From the whitest lie to the blackest night


I wanna be a Native American like Red Cloud
I wanna be a Native American I really mean it
I wanna be a Native American like Cochise
I wanna be a Native American like Crazy Hoooooooooooooorse
Set me free

I will practice every day
Won't be an embarrassment I'll get those subtitles down
All the way please let me in
To your club
Because I wanna change
From the palest gray to the darkest day
From the whitest lie to the blackest night

From the whitest lie
To the blackest night

 

Amir Kondori

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The only good Turtles movie was the first one. It was dark, the turtles were wise cracking teens, it felt just like the show did but with a little bit of an edge. The second one was an abomination.

Everything I read about this Micheal Bay Turtles reboot sounds terrible. Including "Eric Sachs". In 2013 we can't cast a Japanese actor as the main villain, he has to be some white dude? Not to mention all the terrible other things from early scripts, like the turtles actually being aliens.

I know the original show was never great and existed to sell the toys, of which I bought too many, but it has an established mythos and characters and tone. Change it to a degree, sure, but change it too much at your peril.
 

wolf thing

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Pyrian said:
wolf thing said:
Seldon2639 said:
Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."
That's cherry picking, there have been many Native American Groups speaking out against the casting of Johnny Depp.
I don't think the Comanche take on Johnny Depp playing a Comanche qualifies as cherry-picking.
There have been other groups who don't like it, and I felt I should state so, not every natvie american groups is okay with the destitution, some have and that very nice of them, shows a lot acceptance. Cherry picking refers to picking results or reactions and ignoring others to get across a point which is what Seldon2639 was doing, it might a bit of a hash use of the term as the largest groups are cool with depp as tonto but it is an example of it.
 

Verlander

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Armie Hammer has a very punchable face. Then he did that evil character in Reaper, and it made sense - the man was born to be a villain. Not the Lone Ranger. Should have been the bad guy
 

Makabriel

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I think the problem is they wouldn't be able to find a respectable Native American that would be able to play the role as Johnny Depp did. Or want to, rather..

And the throw a wrench in the racism in movies complaints: Will Smith's daughter is going to be little orphan Annie.
Chew on that.
 

Amaror

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Jetsetneo said:
The long story short is; because there are not nearly as many roles for minorities to play, and when they SHOULD get them they get handed out to, not only the 'wrong' minority, but often a Caucasian ('the majority').

Tonto is a role steeped in Native American Culture, its intrinsic to the character, you can't divorce it. So it seems very wrong to give it to a non-native American.

Now, I can't name a Native American star who puts that part of themselves up front, but i don't know if thats yet ANOTHER problem with hollywood or what.

I don't like it either way, but its the sad truth of what is happening. Besides, Johnny Depp wasn't right for this role for many other reasons than 'hes a white guy'.
I didn't had a problem with jonny depp playing an native american. Then again i am really not into western movies, so i didn't even knew that "The lone Ranger" existed before this movie.
I think it's jonny depp, because they just wanted another Pirates of the Carribean. It had jonny depp in it and was a big success, in a time were nobody watched pirate movies. So they thought: What genre does nobody watch anymore? Westerns!
So they made a western with jonny depp in it.
 

80sboy

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Meh, biggest problem I saw with this movie was the tone. I mean it wants to be a fun stupid movie like the PotC movies. But when you're making a movie like that, you don't show Indian Genocides and people eating people. The movie was fun the 1st and 3rd act, but when they were trying to be serious in the 2nd, and forcing that Indian Genocide thing within a 10 minute action sequence - yeah! That's when the movie was seriously crap and offensive. I personal found the white guy as Tonto annoying too, but I was willing to overlook it. Honestly I thought the retelling of Tonto as a man with a broken mind that imagines there being spirit guides and Windigos as pretty good, good material there that wasn't used that well.

Oh and Bob, what is with you and giving Chris Nolan movies crap? Seriously, I think you're just waiting for the chance for him to make a bad movie so you can write him off as a hack. The guy is the best director in Hollywood right now. You like have a secret agenda against him because he made a Batman movie gritty and not child friendly. Like George Carlin said! My word to that is:

FUCK THE CHILDREN!

Stupid snot-nose brats! It's not the 90s anymore (and back then it was bad) and they now got enough stupid comic book characters in DC and Marvel universe to look up to (which is why Man of Steel sucks because Superman is definitely for children). Batman is ours!

I'll be damned if the next Batman re-imagining is somewhere along the lines of the Avengers...ugh!

-_-

:p

Amir Kondori said:
The only good Turtles movie was the first one. It was dark, the turtles were wise cracking teens, it felt just like the show did but with a little bit of an edge. The second one was an abomination.
I wouldn't call it dark, it was more down to earth. Like it really was taking place. And the movie was cheaply made that gave it that lived in feel of over the shoulder VHS recording machines. Which is what made it great. It gave you the sense that mutant turtles could be living the sewers. Definitely better than even the cartoon, and not as dark as the comics.
 

Mayamellissa

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My father is currently writhing around in his urn right now as he was a BIG Lone Ranger fan and has an AUTHENTIC SIGNED PICTURE of the original ranger. I knew it was gonna be bad after seeing pictures of him and hearing Johnny Depp was Tonto but you mutha fecking bastards in Hollywood, please rot in the festering maggot trenches of hell.