Escape to the Movies: The Phantom Menace 13 Years Later

LobsterFeng

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Oskamunda said:
Poison...I see what you did there.

Also, thank you very much for putting up that image of SEBASTIAN SHAW as Anakin...YUB NUB!

(Although, I do think it might hurt your argument to just let it go...)
Not related to the video, but can I ask you where you avatar comes from?
 

Chewster

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Apr 24, 2008
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I don't think it is the worst film ever made (that honor is held by the Room, which is, thankfully, hilarious) but re-releasing it in 3D as a cheap cash grab pisses me off. In fact, all 3D pisses me off. I don't care that Hugo was well received, the whole concept needs to die a quick death once and for fucking all.

I honestly think that there hasn't been a more explicit representation of blind greed in the history of Hollywood that cannot be better expressed by this whole 3D craze. End it now, while history still looks somewhat favorably on you. Please.
 

thewinner194

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Dear god, Bob, I had almost the exact same opinion on nearly every aspect of the movie as you. Except for one thing: I absolutely, positively, HATE the script. It's constantly telling us exactly what we just saw as if it's trying to narrate itself to the blind. It's one of the reasons that some of the good parts of the movie are the parts where no one's talking.
 

Bato

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Nearly thirteen years ago this movie came out I was 9. If I wasn't taken to the movies, I should also add as a family we have been poor and been to the theaters only three times ever and The Phantom Menace was one of those times.
If we hadn't have gone, I probably wouldn't love Star Wars today. I wouldn't have been exposed until much later and probably wouldn't have cared, but I was interested in seeing Star Wars 2. When attack of the clones came out it sparked a tangential interest and I found the original three and was blown away.

And really.. I see this as watching the movie before reading the book. I saw the crappier but not really THAT BAD prequel movies THEN I saw the original much better movies.. So I enjoyed the ride all the way through.
 

J.d. Scott

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Not to defend the whiny fanboys, but the Phantom Menace is terrible. It isn't terrible because it's Star Wars, it's terrible in spite of that. George Lucas had the best actors, screenwriters, filmmakers, and CGI studio at his beck and call. The characterization is just awful. There isn't a single well rounded character in the whole movie - every character is either one-dimension, wallpaper, or aimlessly does actions that directly oppose it's motivations. Qui-Gon cheats and steals, abuses his Jedi Mind Trick, and leaves civilians in danger unless the plot calls for him not to. The plot is nonsense. Literally, the wise Jedis and the trade federation military leaders do nothing but make awful decision after awful decision. The fight scenes are so clean, so devoid of life and character, that it's as if somebody saw the Matrix and didn't understand the point. The movie jumps between action scenes and pointlessly dialogue heavy council scenes as if it had no idea how to structure a basic story narrative. This would be fine if this movie was low-budget, or had terrible actors, but it had an unlimited budget and Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Ian McDiarmid, Terrence Stamp, and Samuel L Jackson. However, they put those actors on the backburner to concentrate on bad CGI characters and a child actor who unfortunately was in way over his head.

It's not the worst movie ever made, but it is really really bad. It compares very similarly to The Expendables, a movie that also tried to cash in on nostalgia with a cast with no characterization, that tried to fill in the gaps with visual effects and fight scenes.

I understand some of the acrimony isn't deserved - there are people who seemingly blame TPM for ruining their childhood or somesuch. However, the opinion that the movie is terrible is completely accurate.
 

Custard_Angel

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But it IS as bad as I think it is.

It fails at every point that could make a good movie...

Action: Boring and inconsequential. It just happens, there's nothing interesting about it.

Suspense: None.

Romance: None.

Characters: Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman and Samuel Jackson are in a movie. And none of them are interesting.

Mystery: None. Whatsoever.

Dialogue: Abysmal. At best its cliche.

Story: Plinkett went through the story thoroughly. It just doesn't make any logical sense. The story moves, but the logic behind the flow is sketchy as hell.

Settings: A Faberge egg. It's pretty on the outside, but there's no substance to it. The environments are static and lifeless. It's obvious that there is no interaction between the actors and the environment. 12 Angry Men had a better environment than all of Menace and the entire black and white movie took place in 1 room.

Direction: What direction? "Stand here and talk". "Walk here while talking". "Turn around and talk". "Sit here and talk". "Fight". These are George Lucas' directions to the actors. When I think of direction done right, I think of the long camera shot from the first date scene of Goodfellas. I don't think of anything George Lucas does.

As someone who doesn't like any of the Star Wars movies (5 was ok), The Phantom Menace was a terrible movie, that made shameful amounts of money for all the wrong reasons.
 

Spud of Doom

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I honestly think if you removed all of the voice from Episode 1 it would be a really good movie. If you could keep all the music and sound effects, and all the outstanding visual design (Naboo was really nicely visualised) without the terrible lines, it would be such a nice thing.
 

DoveAlexa

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What Bob says at the end about the hate of it all just making the haters, and the whole starwars geekdom miserable bitter whiny entitled little dicks is pretty much applicable to all things in life. In the last 2 years I have entirely removed myself from two way interaction with such groups (I can't always avoid reading things they write, but I can avoid talking to them directly) simply because their attitudes towards pretty much everything was always so overly negative it literally made it impossible for me to enjoy anything. You can't stay around those kinds of people, listening to the very overly specific reasons why they hate any certain thing you mention without absorbing it and turning around to 'critique' and then hate everything you see.

If you can't let go of the hate, live with the fact that something you once liked is now something you revile, or doesn't meet your (too high) expectations, you make your own life miserable. Not to mention the lives of those you ***** to.
 

rayen020

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NightmareLuna said:
Duffeknol said:
I hope even more people watch the Plinkett reviews now thanks to you :)
I tried too, but just like Jar Jar, I could not stand his fucking voice... oh by spongebob, I could not stand his awful, awful, stereotypical voice.

I listened to at least 7 minutes, and he made sense... But that could not keep his voice away. :(

Please do a cover of it, haha. ^^
Thats always been my problems too. Mr. Plinkett, to me, embodies through voice the very very worst fanboys/girls of just about anything. I dunno, i could probably listen to him if he was expanding our minds, telling me something interesting, or maybe even doing a review of the OT. But no he isn't he is using his vast knowledge of filmmaking and the art form it is to tear down a, at worst, substandard movie.

I maintain, although i'm not a gen 0 fan of star wars and therefore my opinion doesn't matter, that the only things wrong with them in comparison to the OT is that it wasn't new. It didn't wow because it couldn't wow. sci-fi was already deeply ingrained into the social consciousness and following the matrix, the rise of anime, video games and 20 years of yearning and waiting and jokes, spoofs, parodies and faniverse building, even an awesome one of kind movie wouldn't have been enough because all that baggage would have dragged it down. Also do you ever notice that kids these days can watch the PT with the same slightly open mouthed awe that gen 0 fans watched the OT with 15-20 years ago? ever think there might be something to that?
 

CitizenV

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Jun 15, 2010
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Bob just sounds like a defeated man. So do all the guys agreeing with him, even on its own merits the film sucks. I don't care about the franchise far as I'm concerned the Lucas hate is pointless (i agree with MovieBob on that).

Just be happy that we got some good star wars and forget the bad.

Do not see the movie your encouraging the worst in Hollywood trends that MovieBob was just complaining about on Big Picture.
 

rayen020

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Indignator said:
Thomas Guy said:
Also, Return of the Jedi isn't as good as everyone remembers.
Agreed. The whole sequence on Endor is atrocious.
i take offense to this. if you want to slam the ewoks and stormtrooper having useless armor go right ahead, but that entire sequence is not atrocious. The final showdown of Luke and Vader is best lightsaber fight in the entire series. And i hold that the rebel vs empire fleet engagement is the best space fight ever put to film.
 

CitizenV

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rayen020 said:
Indignator said:
Thomas Guy said:
Also, Return of the Jedi isn't as good as everyone remembers.
Agreed. The whole sequence on Endor is atrocious.
i take offense to this. if you want to slam the ewoks and stormtrooper having useless armor go right ahead, but that entire sequence is not atrocious. The final showdown of Luke and Vader is best lightsaber fight in the entire series. And i hold that the rebel vs empire fleet engagement is the best space fight ever put to film.
I agree with Rayen. Endor atrocious? Either your standards are set way too high or you are exaggerating to try and make a point.
 

Alar

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Dec 1, 2009
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Hithlain said:
Amen brother. I feel the same way about the Hobbit movie that is about to come out. I was 14 when the last LOTR was released and now I'm 22. I'm going to have to steel myself to the fact that it's not going to feel the same as last time, no matter what.

Granted, it still looks like an awesome movie.



Star Wars has sort of the same issues, as you've said.
This raises a good point, a point which I hadn't really thought of just yet. As much as I loved the Lord of the Rings and watched them over and over, times have changed and so have I. I'd like to think my tastes have matured a little bit, and as enthralled by movies as I could be back then, I'm more likely to jokingly point out mistakes in movies now a days.

Still, I am looking forward to it, and I hope it turns out close to as good as the last ones.
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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You know what makes Phantom Menace about 10000% more awesome (especially if you're a D&D/RPG geek)? Darths and Droids: http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html
 

J.d. Scott

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I disagree with you, in the fact that the Plinkett review deconstructs the movie in terms of screenwriting/film conceits - characterization, plot, story arc, general sanity. While he did use the original movies as a touchstone, the points he makes are universal for anyone who wants to critique, understand, or develop the genre of film making.

You can't hold time as a factor, because people have been waiting decades for The Avengers, Captain America, The LOTR Trilogy et al, and those were lauded for the most part (some people are going to be bitter anyway).

For example, when they announced that they were making a movie on the Hellblazer franchise, I really welcomed the idea - a neo-noir movie about a fast-talking magical con-artist using the duplicitous nature of demons and dark entities against them could be really interesting. Then Keanu Reeves signed on and I sorta feared for the worst. Then I saw the movie, and Constantine was basically Van Helsing with a more modern spin. I raged for a little while, and then I saw it for what it was - a fairly average fantasy action romp with uneven story elements and slightly wooden acting. That's an example based on the reality of the situation.

Also, I have two nine-year-old little brothers who love Star Wars. They love the Clone Wars animated stuff. I showed them the new trilogy, and they didn't like either of the first two - they were too long, the fights were cool looking, but they didn't like that the droids were useless, and they love the original trilogy. Take what you want from that.
 

BoredRolePlayer

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As someone who kinda likes Star Wars and saw Episode I,II,III before IV,V,VI. I must say I never liked Episode I, maybe it's cause I was 9 when I saw it but I just preferred II and up more then I. I do get the fans upset over Lucas changing the originals (Because I would like to see the originals and compare to the new ones), and I don't get why he doesn't' just do that if he is pandering to fans. But great review bob, but a eye strain isn't worth watching it again (Beauty and the Beast was barely worth it).
 

Ohlookit'sMatty

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My first thought when watching is this "Dear Gods, it's been 13years since the SW:1 PM came out?!? I'm gettin old" My next thought afte watching this review was "He never talked about the 3D and was it any good, since it's the whole reason that the film is being rereleased"

-M
 

Arcane Azmadi

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Well, good points Bob, but I think you missed one thing: fans aren't pissy at The Phantom Menace JUST because it was pretty crummy and failed to live up to expectations, but because it and the prequel trilogy it started made a concerted effort to do things that actively damaged the Star Wars universe that people loved. The whole "midochlorian" bullshit changed the Force from an omnipresent cosmic energy that "binds the galaxy together" to bugs in your blood that give you psychic powers, the prequel rendition of Anakin ensured that Darth Vader, for decades the most menacing, imposing and awesome villain in cinema history, could never be taken seriously again and it frankly retconned a whole lot of stuff from the original trilogy into stupid crap and it was all in canon! It's more than disappointed expectations, it was a violation of something fans held very dear.

Additionally, I think you're wrong in claming that "nothing could have lived up to fan expectations". OK, you're probably right about nothing being able to meet the expectations, but The Phantom Menace felt like it wasn't even TRYING to recapture the magic of the original trilogy- there were NO relatable characters (while the cast of Star Wars were iconic figures- the farmboy hero, the dashing space rogue, the beautiful but defiant princess), the plot was intergalactic political bullshit (where the originals were a straightforward clash of good and evil that defined the space opera) and it was just very badly made in general. It's not that it could have been better, but that it could have been better easily. "Disappointment" doesn't begin to describe it.

But yes, you're right about the need to stop the endless, meaningless bashing.