And that's my cue that you and I have nothing in common, which is okay. I still like to read reviews of people that have polarizing opinions, but know I know how seriously I can take your opinion when it comes to my own preferences.
It's actually not.Raesvelg said:ASM-2's reception is so far actually notably better than Spider-Man 3's, of course. And given Bob's penchant for declaring the original Spider-Man films as being better simply because of the dearth of comparable material at the time, the fact that we're now living in The Age of Marvel would tend to undermine his hatred of the ASM films.
Did you even watch the video? Like serious, did you? No where during it did Bob say SM3 was good. In fact he says multiple times what a mess it was and while even pointing out the good moments comments that they're not perfect either.Raesvelg said:Bear in mind that Raimi also admitted that he was very disappointed with how Spider-Man 3 turned out, and he's the one who made the film. The critical reception for the third film was mixed at best, which coming off of the first two films very high ratings must have been somewhat nerve-wracking for Raimi.Carbo said:I hope you realize the only reason Spider-Man 4 got cancelled is because Raimi willingly withdrew from the project due to him not considering it possible to finish the movie when Sony wanted it done, and he hated every iteration of the script that the creative team was shitting out for him.
While we only ever really got Raimi's side of things in that whole affair (beyond a "Raimi withdrew from Spider-Man 4 so it's cancelled" from Sony), he makes a rather telling admission in it: When he withdrew from the project, he told them to "Go ahead with your reboot, which you?ve been planning anyway."
Why would Sony want to reboot if they were satisfied with the reception of the third film?
So in my opinion, yeah, he got the boot. He felt he couldn't make a picture good enough so salvage the mess he'd made of the third film, and as such, it killed the Raimi franchise. He may declare it an amicable split, but it's also not as though Sony said "No no, you take the extra year that you need to make the movie you want" because let's be honest, they wound up taking that extra year anyway in making ASM.
Transformers 2 did about as well as Spider-Man 3, so obviously we can agree that being absolute garbage has little relation to box-office success. Particularly when series are involved.Carbo said:Being a turd isn't stopping Sony's extended plans to continue the TASM series, even after TASM2's cripplingly mediocre reception. Spider-Man 3 was still the movie that made Sony the most money out of any Spider-Man movie, and the only reason that series died is because Sony were terrible at handling a plan B.
ASM-2's reception is so far actually notably better than Spider-Man 3's, of course. And given Bob's penchant for declaring the original Spider-Man films as being better simply because of the dearth of comparable material at the time, the fact that we're now living in The Age of Marvel would tend to undermine his hatred of the ASM films.
As it stands, despite what I consider obvious and glaring flaws, I rather like the first two Spider-Man films. Hell, Spider-Man was one of the first three films I bought on DVD back in the day. And I haven't been interested enough in ASM to bother seeing either of them in theaters instead of just waiting for it to show up on Netflix.
But that doesn't change the fact that Spider-Man 3 was terrible, and that Bob is trying way too hard to convince people to share in his Raimi fanboyism.
You kind of have to explain where the cognitive dissonance is, or else this just comes off like you're saying words you've heard and that you comprehend are not complimentary but that you don't understand.Ashoten said:Cognitive dissonance Bob.
There's an interesting divide in both of those cases between reception from critics and reception from the audience.daibakuha said:It's actually not.
Idk... everyone still pretty much hates the Shumacher Batman movies. Once the Amazing Spider-man gets to the point of embarrassing itself on par with the "bat nipples" (and it definitely will)... no one will touch Spider-man for 10-15 years then hopefully we'll get a really great Spider-man film. A film that can finally capture all the aspects of the character. What I always loved about Spider-man in the comics is how human he was. He has real-world, relatable problems like girls, money, etc (which ASM completely fails to capture), as well as super-villians to face. And while he faces super vilians he tires to what he thinks a super hero should be: fair, just, using his powers responsibly, like Captain America (or Superman) but often he lets his emotions and the heat of the moment get to him. On multiple occasions he has thrown caution to the wind and has nearly beat some villains to death in the midst of rage (and this wasn't even in the 90's when every hero was doing this, this was in the 60's). Spider-man (imo) was Stan Lee's best written character.Dandres said:Called it, and in 20 years we will be talking about how the ASM's are better than what has come out in the next bunch of Spider reboots. Nostalgia raises the appraisal value of everything.
Did you even read what I wrote? Like serious, did you? No where during it did I say that Bob said the film was good. What I dispute is his assertion that the film is not bad. And before you try to say that he never said such a thing, from Bob's own mouth and I quote: "In fact, I'd say it's not bad period."RavenTail said:Did you even watch the video? Like serious, did you? No where during it did Bob say SM3 was good. In fact he says multiple times what a mess it was and while even pointing out the good moments comments that they're not perfect either.
More people have seen Spider-Man 3 than ASM2. SM3 is also more readily available for consumption. User reviews are meaningless because most people are idiots. Hence the transformers franchise.Raesvelg said:There's an interesting divide in both of those cases between reception from critics and reception from the audience.
If you do that, then the numbers flip, drastically. 7.8 user score on MT for ASM2 vs SM3's 6.1, similarly 77% positive vs 51% positive on RT.
I tend to put more weight on audience reactions than critical reactions, given that no matter how shitty a movie is to critics, if the audience enjoys it people will watch it. Hence the existence of the Transformers franchise.
This is part of what really gets me. My dad is a huuuuuuuge Spidey nerd. I mean, he had other comics, but his Spider-Collection was huge by the time I was born, and so on top of reading contemporary 80s Spider-Man, I also got to read a bunch of the classic comics. Nothing quite as vintage as an original Amazing Fantasy 15, but I got to see not only pretty early Spider-Man, but also the evolution of Peter and his alter-ego.Kumagawa Misogi said:Also Spiderman in comics has been around for 52 years with Peter Parker being a wuss for less than 20 years of that.
I hated them first!Zhukov said:I'm so cool and independently minded that I didn't like any of the Sam Raimi Spiderman movies.
Maybe he's auditioning for J Jonah Jameson?Ashoten said:Cognitive dissonance Bob. You know all about that so I am surprised at you for your ongoing crusade against this new spider man.
Or swapped places with Jim. Jim's latest was....Interesting.Symion said:Looks like Bob has re-joined the Movie Defense Force.
Welcome back to the fold.
Well, not us. Nostalgia tends to lock people in place. That's why Tom Baker is such a favourite in the Doctor Who circles. He was the first one they were exposed to. And then again for Dave Tennant[footnote]Yes, Eccleston was the first New Who Doctor, but he was also short-lived and more people seem to count Tennant as their first[/footnote] (to the point that Who fans looked for any reason to hate Smith, even for things done on Tennant's run and in Classic Who).Dandres said:Called it, and in 20 years we will be talking about how the ASM's are better than what has come out in the next bunch of Spider reboots. Nostalgia raises the appraisal value of everything.
So is it official? Has "hipster" lost all meaning now? I mean, he's a bit of a dickhe,d but come on....punipunipyo said:this new hipster-parker is lame...