Escapist Editors in the Midst of an Exodus?! -Updated-

Sleepy Sol

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IceForce said:
DeadpanLunatic said:
The site is changing to fit your demands as we speak! Which just so happens to coincide with the transformation into a steaming pile of shit. A coincidence, of course.
To be fair, GG has had Archon on their side since day one.

Want a GamerGate thread unlocked? Certainly! Want the forum rules changed to accommodate you? Not a problem!

It's ridiculous how much this site has bent for their shitshow.
They came here because no other sites would have them, and now everyone ELSE here is leaving and being forced out? This is bullshit.
How in the hell is GG forcing anyone out?

The worst I've seen from them (ON THIS SITE SPECIFICALLY) as far as site behavior goes is being rather quick to jump the gun in their own thread on people who go in there to voice their dissenting opinion. The quality of their arguments can be rather dubious at times speaking as someone who nebulously finds himself agreeing with at least some (and sometimes more) of the sentiments held by them, but that is different to how they conduct themselves while presenting those arguments. While I have found myself angry or frustrated at times with certain users identifying under that umbrella based on their behavior, I see several more past them who act in a more controlled manner. Unfortunately, from the way that thread is structured, it's rather difficult to keep a flowing conversation going, as you might get one person talking against five or six, leading to someone getting the feeling of being 'dogpiled.' That is not a reason to take your ball and leave the entire site.

A lot of other conflict was created from those who chose to make more threads about the subject, whether in favor of GG or not. Not to mention the words of certain people which tend to include mocking of individuals who identify in any capacity with the term (certain private groups come to mind), flimsily disguised insults and snark (I am reminded of a certain someone), and a lack of propensity to treat other human beings like actual fucking thinking human beings, as much as you disagree with them (this goes for both sides of this issue).

Again, the biggest sympathy I can express is to many longtime members of the R&P board who felt like their board was suffocated under the weight of those threads and that conflict. I loved reading the perspectives of all sorts of people I thought to be 'smarter' than I was for years. BUT IT WAS NOT THE DECISION OF GGERS TO MOVE THAT TOPIC THERE.
 

PsychicTaco115

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Huh, I guess it is true that all threads will eventually end up bringing up GamerGate

We should call this something...

Taco's Law

Patent/Trademark/Copyright Pending!
 

Davroth

The shadow remains cast!
Apr 27, 2011
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TheSniperFan said:
Davroth said:
Maybe I would. Not that you'd know.

But that's really besides the point. I would very much mind if the Escapist becomes a GG echochamber, Echochambers are by their very nature cancerous and stifle constructive discussion. I've seen way too many examples of that, and the forum linked looks a whole lot like an echochamber. If this site dies as a neutral ground, I'd rather just not join a new site altogether. I've had enough of people calling me a misogynist because I find the current status of games journalism abhorrent and think that it's going to harm the future of indie games in particular, which happen to be pretty much all I play. So as much as this might be a loosing battle, I likely wont stop fighting it.

Not that you'd particularly care about any of that. Have fun in your new echochamber, if you choose to leave. For what it's worth it doesn't look like the worst echochamber one could choose.
I think the biggest flaw in your logic is that you put the articles and their comments in one basket.

The opinions, views and behavior of those writing the articles, must not mirror those of the community. As long as the rules of this website won't change to enforce an echochamber (of EITHER SIDE), I frankly can't see your problem.

Currently the escapist's forum is pretty much the most neutral ground I've so far. There's pro-GG discussion, there's anti-GG discussion and the obligatory dipshits annoying everyone.
As far as reporting goes however, the escapist is far from neutral, which is something I have a problem with being pro-gg. That is not to say that I want the escapist to become a pro-GG news source. I don't want it to have a strong bias in either way.

The kind of GG reporting I want to see on the escapist is reporting about what is happening, not what the author thinks the audience should know, what he/she thinks about the whole thing and why. I want news to contain information, not opinions.

An example on how the zoe post should have been handled:
"Indie developer ZQ is currently being accused of [...]. Among the accused are [...] from [...]. Past tweets suggest that they have known each other before. [...] Currently there is no official statement available. We'll keep you up to date."
Update:
"It seems like various websites, including [...], have started deleting any form of discussion about the accusations. [...] A tweet shows that ZQ has reached out to a moderator of reddit, prior the the mass-deletions. Whether this was a coincidence or her reaching out to suppress criticism is currently mere speculation."

And so on...

This is what neutral coverage looks like. Neither absolute radio silence, nor riding the anti- or pro-GG train compare.
If the layoffs bring us closer to such a standard of reporting, I take that as a win.


To get back to the forums.
If the forums turn into an echochamber without the staff forcing it, it may just be a sign of the anti-gg folks being heavily outnumbered by their opposition. This is within the realms of possibility. Not every debate has a 50/50 split and neither side is entitled to represent the majority. Sometimes one just does, while the other just doesn't. And sometimes the split is far from even.
I was referring to the board that was linked on page 1. Cursory search revealed that there was no pro discussion to be found, which instantly put a damper on my enthusiasm for it. Plus, people in this thread are openly talking about leaving because of the "GG nonsense", so those who will be left will naturally be in the pro or don't care enough camp, leaving the board itself is a state dangerously close to an echochamber.

I don't disagree with you by the way. That would be the ideal state for me as well.
 

Bat Vader

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Davroth said:
DeadpanLunatic said:
Davroth said:
DeadpanLunatic said:
Zhukov said:
Anyone know of a good geeky forum? Healthy population, decent moderation, minimum of bitter conspiracy theorists?
I recommend the Idle Thumbs forums. Settled in there when the Escapist became infested with GG nonsense.
Seems like a great place if you are firmly set in the anti-GG mindset.

Looks like a good place to get banned within a week for having 'opinions'.
Because the opposite of rabid McCarthyism has got to be censorship, right? Right?

As Colour says, might want to stay right here then. The site is changing to fit your demands as we speak! Which just so happens to coincide with the transformation into a steaming pile of shit. A coincidence, of course.
Oh hi, you obviously didn't bother to read anything other I already posted in respond to Color Scientist. So I don't really see why I should repeat myself. You can just scroll up if you like. Or don't. I mean, I wouldn't really expect much from someone who advocates one echochamber over a place he conceives to be an echochamber, and wishes to turn it into one.
could you guys take your arguments to PMs please. It feels like you guys are derailing the thread.
 

Sleepy Sol

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PsychicTaco115 said:
Huh, I guess it is true that all threads will eventually end up bringing up GamerGate

We should call this something...

Taco's Law

Patent/Trademark/Copyright Pending!
Bound to happen when people automatically throw the blame on the movement, when it's clear that layoffs are hitting many sites under the Defy Media umbrella (and I sincerely fucking doubt it's for their ideological beliefs based on how many sites are being hit).

I am in favor of the creation of Taco's Law.
 

Random Gamer

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Well:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sk5tel

Good luck, Sir.
Though, if you want to get in shape, make sure not to abuse beer, it's kind of counter-productive ;)
 

Teoes

Poof, poof, sparkles!
Jun 1, 2010
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Can we keep the shit-flinging out of one thread please? Can this thread please be about the unfortunate people who've lost their jobs and the unfortunate people who might be considering a new internet home?

GG discussion, from both sides, can fuck right off.
 

Areloch

It's that one guy
Dec 10, 2012
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Solaire of Astora said:
PsychicTaco115 said:
Huh, I guess it is true that all threads will eventually end up bringing up GamerGate

We should call this something...

Taco's Law

Patent/Trademark/Copyright Pending!
Bound to happen when people automatically throw the blame on the movement, when it's clear that layoffs are hitting many sites under the Defy Media umbrella (and I sincerely fucking doubt it's for their ideological beliefs based on how many sites are being hit).

I am in favor of the creation of Taco's Law.
Heck, the first mention of it in this thread at all looks to have been Deadpan whining about it.

As for Taco's law, how would you wrestle control of all mentions of tacos from Taco Bell? Would it involve literal wrestling? I can slide you a well-placed folding chair if needed!
 

Thorn14

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Teoes said:
Can we keep the shit-flinging out of one thread please? Can this thread please be about the unfortunate people who've lost their jobs and the unfortunate people who might be considering a new internet home?

GG discussion, from both sides, can fuck right off.
Agreed.

Greg Tito also confirmed its because of budget cuts at Defy Media. GG is completely irrelevant to this so lets stop talking about it here.
 

Story

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^ Would like to know this too as well as GameTrailers.
 

Raggedstar

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Oh wow this is terrible. I wish luck to Greg and all the others who lost their jobs from this mess.

Whelp, if anyone needs me, I'll be in the Escapist forum panic room.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Awh... This... Is worrying. Granted, I already think the escapist isn't what it used to be, but... This looks especially bad.

Still, I've been around long enough to see a stream of bad things happen to this site, and somehow it still kept going, but in the back of my mind I still remember the last major shitstorm.

I can't remember if it started before then, or if Extra Credits were the catalyst for exposing it, but at some point it became clear that many of the content creators were owed money that they never got.

Apocalypse lane. Doraelius and associates, Extra Credits, and several others all fell to that, and made similar claims about the escapist short-changing it's content creators big-time.

I have no idea what happened after that, and whether it improved at all or just kept being a disaster for content creators, but we can certainly see the site didn't really properly recover...

And now this... What can I even make of it? I really don't know.
But I would be kind of sad to see the site go under.

For all it's problems it's still the most pleasant gaming site I can think of anywhere online... And losing that would be unfortunate...
 

Hairless Mammoth

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Wow, this is sad, for both us and especially for those who are or will be looking for work now. The Escapist is my daily games and movies site, especially after Gameradar's content slowed to a trickle and then it fused with other Future properties. It also has one of the most civil and comfortable communities I've seen. I really love the geek balance we have here.

I hope that, whatever happens, everyone who left will find something stable, and Defy Media gets it together. A fusion with Gametrailers might not be so bad (except for, you know, anyone with a redundant job), but I'd hate to see the Escapist decline further. And I'd loathe going back to Gamespot and IGN.
 

Archon

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We made some tough decisions yesterday that impacted several staffers from The Escapist, GameTrailers, and GameFront. The contributions of the talented writers and editors we had to let go will definitely be missed. However, all of the properties are continuing to serve the gamer audience going forward. Here at The Escapist, Josh Vanderwall, the managing editor under Greg Tito, will be taking over as the new editor-in-chief. Look for his first editor's note, re-introducing himself to you all, later today.
 

SonicWaffle

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sky14kemea said:
Why does every forum I join ultimately crash and burn?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for all things drops to zero.

Plus, you smell.

OT: OH NO! If the Escapist goes, what shall become of my arbitrary numbers? My post count, my join date, my only true measures of worth in this confusing life! Oh god, what about my badges?!

Probably nothing. I doubt this is the end of the site, just a reduction in content, and I come for the forums anyway. Let's all have a nice, refreshing glass of lemonade and chill out.

Alternatively, this is the apocalypse, and it's all down to those evil/heroic trolls/GamerGaters hounding away/rescuing the site from ordinary/corrupt journalists/SJW stooges. Choose your own adventure!
 

Fappy

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Archon said:
We made some tough decisions yesterday that impacted several staffers from The Escapist, GameTrailers, and GameFront. The contributions of the talented writers and editors we had to let go will definitely be missed. However, all of the properties are continuing to serve the gamer audience going forward. Here at The Escapist, Josh Vanderwall, the managing editor under Greg Tito, will be taking over as the new editor-in-chief. Look for his first editor's note, re-introducing himself to you all, later today.
Is a merger in the cards or is that just speculation? I assume it's not if we're getting a new EiC for the Escapist itself.
 

Teoes

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Jun 1, 2010
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SonicWaffle said:
sky14kemea said:
Why does every forum I join ultimately crash and burn?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for all things drops to zero.

Plus, you smell.

OT: OH NO! If the Escapist goes, what shall become of my arbitrary numbers? My post count, my join date, my only true measures of worth in this confusing life! Oh god, what about my badges?!

Probably nothing. I doubt this is the end of the site, just a reduction in content, and I come for the forums anyway. Let's all have a nice, refreshing glass of lemonade and chill out.

Alternatively, this is the apocalypse, and it's all down to those evil/heroic trolls/GamerGaters hounding away/rescuing the site from ordinary/corrupt journalists/SJW stooges. Choose your own adventure!
That lemonade looks suspiciously like Kool-Aid. Ermagerd, you haven't been drinking it have you?!