Escapist Editors in the Midst of an Exodus?! -Updated-

VanQ

Casual Plebeian
Oct 23, 2009
2,729
0
0
Hell, I'd contribute some stuff for free if they were short on contributors. I often keep up to date with Japanese game releases and stuff like that that never get a peep on this site. My writing isn't amazing or anything and I'm more of a science guy than a creative guy but hey, that's what an editor is for.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
Jan 4, 2010
12,010
0
41
Country
United States
VanQ said:
Hell, I'd contribute some stuff for free if they were short on contributors. I often keep up to date with Japanese game releases and stuff like that that never get a peep on this site. My writing isn't amazing or anything and I'm more of a science guy than a creative guy but hey, that's what an editor is for.
IIRC there is very little editorial review that goes into the news articles published here (unless things have changed recently). They mostly rely on their writers to catch their own errors. Obviously not the best approach, but I think it's likely a budgetary issue.
 

webkilla

New member
Feb 2, 2011
594
0
0
major_chaos said:
webkilla said:
http://www.alienpickle.com/2015/01/defy-media-cuts-staff-at-escapist.html
Haha wow, if those guys became any more self aggrandizing and smug it would tear a hole in reality. And people wonder why I'm #GG sympathetic. Also speaking of "is he really still a thing?" Hi Matt Lees, still desperately grasping for relevance despite a total lack of appreciable talent to back up your colossal ego?

That said I really doubt politics are the reason behind this, considering Movie "there are no bad methods only bad targets" Bob is still employed. Looks more like Tito taking the standard "welp now I don't work there anymore so I can publicly express how I think my former coworkers are scum without losing my job" opportunity. Kinda surprised though Tito never struck me as the kind of person who got that butthurt about other people daring to have an opinion. It will be interesting to see if he uses new employment or a personal platform to write a big hitpeice about how Yatzee is a horrible misogynist dirtbag and the Escapist is literally patriarchy or just lets it go with a few bitter tweets.

Actually now that I think about it, I really hope this doesn't set the PC pitchfork mob on Yahtzee. Based on Let's Drown Out he seems like a really nice guy, and he has tried so hard to stay out of internet shit whirlpools, so it would suck if people try to run him out of town for some imagined fault in these layoffs.
Frankster said:
webkilla said:
Found this linked on /gamergate/ http://www.alienpickle.com/2015/01/defy-media-cuts-staff-at-escapist.html

Is there any truth to this? That the people axed are the ones who've been trying politicizing Escapist content?
If this is true this gives me more a reason to be ¬¬ about all these morality debates (that I've done my damn best to stay clear off). The smarmy attitude of some of these posts rub me the wrong way too, don't even care what "side" they are on.
@ Major chaos: I can't imagine that he'll slander Yahtzee. Burning bridges isn't a wise thing to do in the media business, since it sends a strong signal to future employers about how 'loyal' they can expect him to be...

@ Frankster: See that's what I'm thinking. There is so much double-speak going around. Jim Sterling supposedly said some really nasty anti-GG things on social media prior to leaving the Escapist, but since having left he hasn't said a peep on the topic.

Its really hard to get a solid read on these people - and it bothers me a lot...
 

TheArcaneThinker

New member
Jul 19, 2014
211
0
0
So goodbye escapist ?! I cant believe it... It was basically my online home.... This was the one and only forum which prevented me from signing on to those eroge forums.... I dont know what will happen now.... :(
 

Albino Boo

New member
Jun 14, 2010
4,667
0
0
Story said:
Even if that was true, that's frankly not a good reason to loose your job over. Specifically if that job includes writing opinion pieces such as what a journalist sometimes does.
Part of the job of an editor is to look beyond their own personal opinions and ask the question what does my readership want to see. I suggest that Mr Tito has failed to ask that question and slipped into activism once too often. I suspect the owners have looked at the traffic and revenue generated and made the decision that the number of people that share Mr Tito's and Mr Lincoln's opinion isn't large enough to make a return on investment. If I was in Mr Tito's position I would have done one of two things. The first option being to tone done the politics a bit and broaden the appeal. The second option would be hire a number of staff with completely opposite opinions and do weekly point and counterpoint columns. That way you get to cover all the bases. At times the Escapist has sounded like a liberal college professor's dinner party on campus.
 

silversnake4133

New member
Mar 14, 2010
683
0
0
I was wondering what Jim meant when he Tweeted his well wishes to those who were leaving the Escapist. Wow, so sad to actually hear what happened. :(
 

VanQ

Casual Plebeian
Oct 23, 2009
2,729
0
0
Fappy said:
VanQ said:
Hell, I'd contribute some stuff for free if they were short on contributors. I often keep up to date with Japanese game releases and stuff like that that never get a peep on this site. My writing isn't amazing or anything and I'm more of a science guy than a creative guy but hey, that's what an editor is for.
IIRC there is very little editorial review that goes into the news articles published here (unless things have changed recently). They mostly rely on their writers to catch their own errors. Obviously not the best approach, but I think it's likely a budgetary issue.
Ah I see, well in that case I'm not confident that my writing is at a professional level. Then again, it's certainly not at the level of "Weekly Disney Princess Fan Art" columns. But I digress.

Maybe the Escapist could consider some form of user contribution outside of the User Reviews section, which hardly gets any traffic. Or they could make it more visible. Maybe they could have a "User Submitted" section with an upvote system that bumps things onto the front page if they get enough upvotes like Reddit or something. Have a dedicated window for it like the news section.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
Jan 4, 2010
12,010
0
41
Country
United States
VanQ said:
Fappy said:
VanQ said:
Hell, I'd contribute some stuff for free if they were short on contributors. I often keep up to date with Japanese game releases and stuff like that that never get a peep on this site. My writing isn't amazing or anything and I'm more of a science guy than a creative guy but hey, that's what an editor is for.
IIRC there is very little editorial review that goes into the news articles published here (unless things have changed recently). They mostly rely on their writers to catch their own errors. Obviously not the best approach, but I think it's likely a budgetary issue.
Ah I see, well in that case I'm not confident that my writing is at a professional level. Then again, it's certainly not at the level of "Weekly Disney Princess Fan Art" columns. But I digress.

Maybe the Escapist could consider some form of user contribution outside of the User Reviews section, which hardly gets any traffic. Or they could make it more visible. Maybe they could have a "User Submitted" section with an upvote system that bumps things onto the front page if they get enough upvotes like Reddit or something. Have a dedicated window for it like the news section.
I think most sites like the Escapist could get a lot of free content if they spent more time engaging with their communities, I agree. It always makes me scratch my head when communities like ours are left to their own devices. Seems like a missed opportunity.
 

Story

Note to self: Prooof reed posts
Sep 4, 2013
905
0
0
albino boo said:
Story said:
Even if that was true, that's frankly not a good reason to loose your job over. Specifically if that job includes writing opinion pieces such as what a journalist sometimes does.
Part of the job of an editor is to look beyond their own personal opinions and ask the question what does my readership want to see. I suggest that Mr Tito has failed to ask that question and slipped into activism once too often. I suspect the owners have looked at the traffic and revenue generated and made the decision that the number of people that share Mr Tito's and Mr Lincoln's opinion isn't large enough to make a return on investment. If I was in Mr Tito's position I would have done one of two things. The first option being to tone done the politics a bit and broaden the appeal. The second option would be hire a number of staff with completely opposite opinions and do weekly point and counterpoint columns. That way you get to cover all the bases. At times the Escapist has sounded like a liberal college professor's dinner party on campus.
Fair points. I admit, I'm not the best person to discuss this as I tend to lean on very liberal ideologies and I happen to like some of the more politically charged articles here (even the baffling Global Warming ones).
The point is moot though as, regardless of how we feel about whether or not an editor should include their opinions on news articles, several people are out of jobs now because of corporate cut backs. To me, that fact is even sadder.
 

Jake Martinez

New member
Apr 2, 2010
590
0
0
VanQ said:
PsychicTaco115 said:
Huh, I guess it is true that all threads will eventually end up bringing up GamerGate

We should call this something...

Taco's Law

Patent/Trademark/Copyright Pending!
I see Gamergate blamed for pretty much anything these days. At this point Taco's Law is just the new Godwin's Law.
My wife was joking about this the other day, she's said that "GamerGate" has become the new "Thanks Obama!" for snowflakes that like to bellyache on the internet.

Other than the claims in this thread (which personally, I found pretty ludicrous, to the point I couldn't believe anyone actually had the thought in the first place) I've seen people claiming that this was a walkout over Yahtzee's piece on the "PC Master Race" meme as well. Practically lost my coffee over that one.

Also, evidently GamerGate's latest crime against humanity is making a cheesy dating sim game #7 on the Steam top sellers link to "stick it to the SJW's" ... or something, at least according to a certain gaming website.

I don't know how the rest of you guys feel, but seriously it seems to me that a lot of these complaints have jumped the bloody shark.
 

nightmare_gorilla

New member
Jan 22, 2008
461
0
0
Not to be an ass or anything but it seems like the escapist has recurring issues with paying it's people or just handling money in general. I remember cash being the main dispute when the extra credits guys left. If I remember right they were claiming they hadn't been paid for a few months when that kerfuffle happened. I like this site a lot but new ethics policies don't mean a lot if you can't pay your content providers. Maybe GG had something to do with it, but it seems the official word is it's money related. Whatever differences of opinion may exist I certainly hope for the best for them all and wish for speedy rehires all around.
 

Armadox

Mandatory Madness!
Aug 31, 2010
1,120
0
0
*shrugs* The forums are nice, but what drew me to the Escapist years ago was the content provided. There is a lot of content that I enjoyed that is no longer present on this site. I mean, I like Zero Punctuation and Movie Bob usually, but the fact of the matter is this, it doesn't matter what your opinions are on any topic, if there's no fresh blood pouring through the content veins, this place'll be dead regardless of who has jobs and who doesn't. The show must go on, fellas.

It sucks when anyone loses their job, and I hope that they that have been let go have enough backbone and connections to bounce back from this situation. But what they say now is bent on frustration, and doesn't really effect this site from where it stands. Let them vent, they aren't making money right now (and money has been this sites troubles for a while now). Everyone seems to be acting as if the question is "what will we do without the site", not " What can be done to help it".

So, what would you guys want to see from here going forward? What content would you like to see presented by the Escapist that would garner yours (and/or others) viewership? Personally, the fact that content providers have the opportunity to make their money via multiple streams of income means that the Escapist doesn't have to pull exclusivity to any content for it to matter for the website. I come here because I can log onto it from work without having to worry about the content causing me to need delete my browser history, and if someone is on here I don't have to hunt for them on youtube, blip, etc.

Personally, I rather enjoy the actual shows that the site used to provide (There Will Be Brawl, Unforgotten Realms, etc), and the shows that try to teach or show off interesting facts (Extra Credits, Reel Physics, et) of which I think there are neither left on the site. I would love to see more productions to sit along side editorials, opinion pieces and Reviews.

That and another web comic... I used to run through them as I went about my week, but it's pretty empty on the hills of ink and paper now a days..
 

faefrost

New member
Jun 2, 2010
1,280
0
0
Thorn14 said:
Teoes said:
Can we keep the shit-flinging out of one thread please? Can this thread please be about the unfortunate people who've lost their jobs and the unfortunate people who might be considering a new internet home?

GG discussion, from both sides, can fuck right off.
Agreed.

Greg Tito also confirmed its because of budget cuts at Defy Media. GG is completely irrelevant to this so lets stop talking about it here.
Ok let's be upfront about where all of this comes from. GG did not cause this, but it is a piece of the puzzle. Ultimately the root cause of this was the storm of "Gamers are over, dead, don't need to be your audience etc" articles that triggered a pushback from the gamers and consumers of the gaming press. No matter what your views on Gamergate the truth is it is largely centered around consumer pushback if not open revolt. Nothing else about GG costs anybody money.

If you step outside the gaming press, and actually poke around in the business and marketing articles you would find that the advertising industry pretty much thinks the gaming press went insane. A large part of the industry rather than quickly putting out a fire poured gasoline on it while lobbing in dynamite. This made the ad industry pretty much universally designate gaming related sites as toxic to advertisers. Good sites, bad sites, pro GG, anti GG completely indifferent, it does not matter. The press was at war with the audience the ad industry was seeking to reach, hence there was no value to be found in pouring money into ads on those sites. Even as traffic is up, advertising and advertising rates for game sites are down. Defy is clearly retrenching to deal with this. It remains to be seen if this is a proactive reaction to a changing situation, or a holy shit we're fucked move. But rest assured they are not the only site or branch of the gaming industry dealing with this. If you notice you see a lot of others starting to trickle out into "independence" from major sites and less blatant changes quietly occurring. Also pay attention to not just the status of writers at all of these sites, but the changes to the frequency of their appearences. Most are already independent contractors. They don't get "laid off" the workflow simply trickles downward or stops as the sites reduce paying for articles.

As far as two points that while seemingly unrelated, but in truth are joined at the hip. Journalists "Free Speech" and Greg Tito's departure. Here's the elephant in the room. Journalists speech is not "free". In truth it is a bought and paid for product. The employer is paying the journalist for his speech. The assumption being that the employer can then resell or package said speech to a consuming audience for a profit. When the journalists speech starts costing the employer revenue instead of earning it, the employer will stop paying for the journalists speech. It's that simple.

So how does this apply to Mr. Tito? While Greg throughout all of this has been a nice guy that we like and respect, there have been a number of moments where his decisions, actions or management have not been indicative of the best judgement. (Granted many others were he showed fine or superb judgement, so a mixed bag). Things like being a member of the Games Journalist Pro's mailing list, and as a result giving his employers direct competitors a voice or input in this sites editorial and managerial decisions. In an up market this would largely be forgiven. In a falling market space however the employer will almost always make a management change. Short answer, Greg probably put his personal politics and feelings over his employers legitimate reasonable and ethical best interests one too many times with no revenue returns or benefits for doing so. And thus the employer decided a change in direction was needed. Not unlike Black Monday when football coaches with borderline or losing records will find themselves replaced.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

The Ship Magnificent
Dec 30, 2011
826
0
0
IceForce said:
DeadpanLunatic said:
The site is changing to fit your demands as we speak! Which just so happens to coincide with the transformation into a steaming pile of shit. A coincidence, of course.
To be fair, GG has had Archon on their side since day one.

Want a GamerGate thread unlocked? Certainly! Want the forum rules changed to accommodate you? Not a problem!

It's ridiculous how much this site has bent for their shitshow.
They came here because no other sites would have them, and now everyone ELSE here is leaving and being forced out? This is bullshit.
I've said this many times and I likely will have to again.

I don't think it was an ideological decision. Archon does agree with GamerGate, but he's a businessman first. By catering to the mob, he was able to remain on its good side even though we were still condemned for being SJWs. If he went against the grain, his site could very well have ended up at the end of the barrel during Operation Disrespectful Nod, a deliberate attempt to shut down a site they didn't like.

As a businessman, Archon made the decision to placate the crowd as best he could in order to protect a source of revenue. It's just a coincidence that he agreed with the movement. That and the mods would have to be superhuman in order to properly mod the massive influx of new users here for only that one thread.

OT
The Escapist had better get off its ass and get more content providers on here. The well-being of this site is now in the hands of Yahtzee. If he were to move, go independent or just get sick of Zero Punctuation, POOF!

The site's only dead if the people in charge let it become so.
 

Crazy Zaul

New member
Oct 5, 2010
1,217
0
0
It's a shame but with Jim gone and LLR on youtube, Bob and sometimes news were the only reasons I came here.

For the people looking for a new forum - Neogaf, nope. Maybe you could repopulate the something awful forums?
 

Carzinex

New member
Mar 29, 2011
44
0
0
albino boo said:
Story said:
Even if that was true, that's frankly not a good reason to loose your job over. Specifically if that job includes writing opinion pieces such as what a journalist sometimes does.
The second option would be hire a number of staff with completely opposite opinions and do weekly point and counterpoint columns. That way you get to cover all the bases. At times the Escapist has sounded like a liberal college professor's dinner party on campus.

This, so much this.

Im not the biggest fan of moviebob and find the defence that he's kept on because of his geek (comic book) knowledge a bit daft(frequent any comic book site and you'll find thousands of peeps with better knowledge), however, if he was put up against someone with an opposite view to argue points in geek culture i would watch the shit out of that.

From what i get of his character though he may be opposed to this as he seem to enjoy his soapbox alot and he would probably not want his "correct" opinion to be challenged.

Its why ive always lurked these forums for years, the arguments between opposing voice, this is no echo chamber and the site is better for it.
 

Catfood220

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 21, 2010
2,098
357
88
I will be really pissed if I come here tomorrow and everything is gone.

But, if it is then I want you all to know...I love you guys, you're like the cool guys that let this strange fat weirdo hang around with them for some reason. Thank you.

But I remain positive, things will be ok. Different but ok.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
15,489
0
0
Archon said:
While the notion of creating walking tanks with howitzers seems awesome, actually we will have tanks, infantry, and howitzers, and they will work together in a combined-arms task force. This metaphor seems sensible to me but I have been watching a lot of Robotech lately.
Sounds more like Metal Gear to me, Colonel.

Crazy Zaul said:
For the people looking for a new forum - Neogaf, nope. Maybe you could repopulate the something awful forums?
We're not awful, though. We're escapists. Big McLargeHuge difference.
 

COMaestro

Vae Victis!
May 24, 2010
739
0
0
The site has been bleeding content for a while now. I look at what is offered and almost a quarter of the content in the calendar is reviews of shows that I don't watch. About a third is Twitch streams and podcasts, which I don't have the time to watch or listen to. The only things that really interest me at this point are ZP, Critical Miss, Experienced Points, Critical Intel, and some of Moviebob's stuff. I also enjoy seeing some of the news bits and the weekly quizzes can be fun.

Obviously there are going to be those who do watch the Twitch streams and do listen to the podcasts, etc, but I feel that the offered content has just dropped dramatically and either hasn't been replaced with similar content, has been replaced with less attractive options, or just hasn't been replaced at all.