Escapist News Network: West Washing

Graham_LRR

Unskippable, LRR, Feed Dump
Nov 13, 2008
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West Washing

When Eastern developers make their games appeal to "The West", everyone loses.

Watch Video
 

dex-dex

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Oct 20, 2009
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jello with buttons for eyes. hahaha!

i could not believe the stupidity of the Mario re release as well when i first heard it.
 

Japester3k

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Aug 24, 2010
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Great ENN! :)

Beef certainly makes everything more believable, its a scientific fact... or something.
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
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...way to go and cash in nintendo!!

And does feel like Japan is going alot more with western designs...loved the feature article on it...especilly Quickbender XD
 

Moriarty70

Canucklehead
Dec 24, 2008
498
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MS-Dos 6. Go back, watch it again, you'll see it. My computer doesn't even have a floppy drive anymore.

C:\Emotions\
run cry.bat
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Hmmm, well, those games (Mario) are old enough where there are probably a lot of people in Generation Y who habven't played them, yet the basic genere remains popular as do the characters. I can see why they re-released it, even if it is pretty stupid.

As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.

People like differant kinds of characters, the Eastern/Western thing is just one stylistic differance (dress, general body types and apperance, etc...) and to be honest I don't think the tastes are locked in regionally, despite where each "style" originated. There are plenty of people in the US and Europe who like the whole eastern style, anime, etc.. and plenty of people in Japan and China who like western artwork, comics, and stylings as well. We're actually in a time period where western and eastern styles have been influancing each other more than ever and creating a lot of hybrids.

I think the direction the game industry needs to go in is instead of giving you say "Samus" to play, letting you design your own bounty hunter that looks how you want, and can select a personality type (affecting how dialogue is read and comments made in game and such like in SR 2). Heck, 3D Dot Game Heroes has shown that this kind of thing is possible even for games with a retro or "cutesy" style though voicework wasn't as prominant a part of it.

Such are my thoughts. Also I feel that if we manage to stop the whole Scwartzneggar Vs. Free Speech thing, and ACTA hre in the US, and then get the current people in power out of power and hopefully see a return to more balanced politics, you'll see people doing a lot less messing around with games, since I think a lot of the "changes" people are noticing both in art styles, but character personalities, are in reaction to politics. The US representing the biggest game market at the moment. What's more if the US gets it's act together hre, I think a lot of the rest of the world with censorship problems can be "fixed". I think we're seeing a lot of the current social/speech related issues around the globe because people figure that if the US is going in these directions itself (which have been there for a while, creeping up, only to burst onto the scene due to some political aberrations) it's not like we can yell at them for violating human freedoms with a straight face.

Ah well, enough rambling.
 

sooperman

Partially Awesome at Things
Feb 11, 2009
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Well I'm in favor of "West Washing". The East and the West have been influencing each other for generations, but the East still seems to make video games on completely different standards(and if not games, their characters).

There's nothing wrong with Japan's culture or Korea's MMOs, but I think that the silent majority is taking a stand against the weeaboos. World of Goo showed us that blobs do make effective characters if the plot stays simple, so maybe it's worth a try.
 

Pinstar

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Jul 22, 2009
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The question is, what changes (if any) will be made to female characters on a West-washed game?
 

Eleima

Keeper of the GWJ Holocron
Feb 21, 2010
901
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Paul & Graham's reaction to the talk of a movie release of SC2 cutscenes was absolutely priceless. Paul's outrage, and Graham's stark expression (see what I did there?) of terror were just perfect. And I love the "evil porpoises" t-shirt. I loved those 3 seconds of footage so much, I watched 'em 5 times. XD
Replace characters with amorphous blobs of goo?? I wonder what Mr. Grey [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Mr.%20Grey] has to say about that...
Also, Kathleen *does* have a point: there's no way Mr. or Ms. Smith would survive a zombie apocalypse (I mean, I have no illusion on that point, I'd totally be scrambled brains on a zombie's menu).
 

BOBdotEXE

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Nov 17, 2009
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Moriarty70 said:
MS-Dos 6. Go back, watch it again, you'll see it. My computer doesn't even have a floppy drive anymore.

C:\Emotions\
run cry.bat
ahhh, the good old days!
/nostalgia
 

Graham_LRR

Unskippable, LRR, Feed Dump
Nov 13, 2008
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Haha, proabaly one of my favorite EEN shows so far. Loved the alls stars bit. why not realse a compilation with all the SNES games and Mario 64?I mean where the hell is paper mario even? They have what... 9GB to play with on a regular dual-layer DVD? They could make a great aneverary edition with a bonus DVD with documentaries, specials, maybe even package in a poster or limited edition art cards, a soundtrack all that good stuff. Make it an EVENT.
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
3,902
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Hey! My cousin is a blob, and he was offended!
In all seriousness, this trend will have positive and negative effects, so all we can do is just hope the good outweighs the bad.
Also, I love you, Nintendo, but SERIOUSLY?
 

Tarkand

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Dec 15, 2009
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sooperman said:
Well I'm in favor of "West Washing". The East and the West have been influencing each other for generations, but the East still seems to make video games on completely different standards(and if not games, their characters).

There's nothing wrong with Japan's culture or Korea's MMOs, but I think that the silent majority is taking a stand against the weeaboos. World of Goo showed us that blobs do make effective characters if the plot stays simple, so maybe it's worth a try.
Fully agree with this.
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
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Kathleen makes a very good point at the end! XD

also <3 cutting off matt's rant on Reach XD
 

AnneSQF

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Sep 22, 2009
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The Unskippable part had me ROFLing. Awesome episode, I enjoyed it very much!
 

scw55

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Nov 18, 2009
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When the credits started, an ice cream van went past my room playing music. It terrified me as It sounded like the sound bite when the blob spoke. I genuinly thought the blob was going to attack. I was deeply terrified.

Well done for making a 21 year old terrified of a plate of jelly :)
 

Falseprophet

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Jan 13, 2009
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I'm actually hoping for the middle ground. I prefer protagonists of moderate or athletic build to either the waifs or the linebackers. I especially prefer protagonists who act like they have brains once in a while instead of always being one of the four flavours of stupid: angsty, stoic, douchebag or snarky.
 

Orthon

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Mar 28, 2009
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Great episode, it highlights the main issue within videogaming: Nobody thinks of the amorphous blobs anymore. :<

Also, did Graham's head freak out or something in the end credits scene? Tried to edit that away all sneaky like, huh?
 

Logic Sword

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Jun 8, 2010
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"Does this look like a girl to you?"
"No"
"EXACTLY."

That had me laughing far more than it should. Great episode, as usual :)
 

Agent Larkin

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Apr 6, 2009
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Ah the Unskippable desk was priceless. I don't thing I've ever laughed at anything in ENN this hard in a long time.
 

Sosa Star

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Nov 23, 2009
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I vote for Blobby to become a full newcaster!

Loved the Unskippable (behind the) scene
 

OtherSideofSky

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Jan 4, 2010
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This was by far the funniest episode in weeks. I don't really mind them giving these games to western developers, especially since Castlevania has had it's share of buff, leather-clad protagonists in the old games and DMC was so heavily influenced by western culture to begin with (although, honestly, I only liked the first one) and it's not like they made Dante look like the dudes from GoW (either one). I think the worst example is probably Front Mission Evolved, but what wrecks that is really the writing, which was handled by the Japanese (Front Mission always had by far the best writing of any Square Enix series), and not the gameplay (which is mostly just "meh"). Honestly, we get enough bad games from both sides of the Pacific that I can't see this changing much. Besides which, most of Japan's [b/]good[/b] character designers don't even work in video games.
 

Graham_LRR

Unskippable, LRR, Feed Dump
Nov 13, 2008
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DO NOT ANGER THE MIGHTY JELLO!
"Does this look like a girl to you?"
Actually, it we're talking about the new Dante, then... Yeah, kinda.
Ironic that he looked more masculine in tight leather and white hair.

Oh wait he also had this...
 

Simalacrum

Resident Juggler
Apr 17, 2008
5,204
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I wander how happy The Escapist's very own Sophisticated Amorphous Blob [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Mr.%20Grey] will be about this... XD
 

TheEnglishman

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Jun 13, 2009
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Wow, the Unskippable thing made me laugh, all it needed was Graham to hand it over to Graham rather than Kathleen and it would have been perfect.

Good episode today, many LOL's to go around.
 

Solusumbra

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Apr 23, 2010
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OtherSideofSky said:
(although, honestly, I only liked the first one)
youre kidding right? not only was the combat garbage in that game, the voice acting was laughable, and it didnt really have any interesting characters. dante finally became truly cool in the third one, which is also when the gameplay became great, and the story telling started to not suck.

all this was then perfected in the 4th one (along with the inclusion of nero who, while not in dantes league of awesomeness, is not as fail as so many people would have you believe).

one was mediocre, two is the child locked in the basement.

5 could be good. itll be different, but it might not suck.
 

someotherguy

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Nov 15, 2009
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This is the best ENN so far. The unskippable desk, graham holding a gun to his head, the googly eye'd jello. Gold.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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I loved the offended jello and the quick cut to the "Unskippable desk". To the guy against "West washing" though, you do realize that a character that's supposed to be a man not looking like a woman is a GOOD thing, right?

Moriarty70 said:
MS-Dos 6. Go back, watch it again, you'll see it. My computer doesn't even have a floppy drive anymore.

C:\Emotions\
run cry.bat
No need, I saw it the first time.
 

Arella18

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Apr 22, 2009
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all I wanna comment on is the last line...the Yakuza would be more likely to survive Z-day
 

ravensshade

resident shadow
Mar 18, 2009
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sooperman said:
ravensshade said:
sooperman said:
but I think that the silent majority is taking a stand against the weeaboos.
just curious define weeaboos
It's like Japanophile, or Wapanese.
i know that much but define the extent of it since only those extreme cases of it annoy me
for example does saying prefering anime and manga&music over western series,comics and music make you (in your opinion) a weeaboo?
if your awnser is yes IMO that's not a weeaboo
 

Inuprince

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Aug 12, 2008
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I hate what they did to the Devil May Cry series so for me it's over ... Perhaps watch some reviews when it comes out but I doubt they will change my mind...
It seems this is what happens when people complain too much...I don't think it's even because of the 4th games financial success since they sold 2.2 million copies in the first weeks...It was all because of the flame about Nero being soo baad ... well here's Dante back for you ... I'm wondering how much people regret there comments now ... I mean come on, half of the game you played as Dante - you can't even say you missed him so much and want him back ...

Oh well, I'm saving my money for Castlevania because it looks awesome and hopefully is a great game. (The only thing I am worried about are control issues )
 

sooperman

Partially Awesome at Things
Feb 11, 2009
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ravensshade said:
i know that much but define the extent of it since only those extreme cases of it annoy me
for example does saying prefering anime and manga&music over western series,comics and music make you (in your opinion) a weeaboo?
if your awnser is yes IMO that's not a weeaboo
The way I see it, you are a weeaboo if you prefer the Japanese culture over your own. If you prefer the music, the comics, the food, the clothes, or any of that, that's fine, I don't mind. But do not bother me about it and don't announce it to the Internet.

If you listen to the music, read their comics, or that sort of thing more than you do our own, you are a weeaboo. That's my definition, feel free to disagree.
 

Stabby Joe

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Jul 30, 2008
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No, don't kill the Unskippable desk with THAT MUCH game footage!

Anyway, this video mentioned the changes to Nier. Nier was always the same design, it wasn't localized for the west... another more anime teen style was in Japan along with the original. If anything it's Japan that localized it despite being their own creation.
 

PayneTrayne

Filled with ReLRRgious fervor.
Dec 17, 2009
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A few things: Goddammit Nintendo, I already own all starts. I don't want to buy it again.
Deadrising 2 is going to ruin my life, but if what is said about Yakuza is true, sounds awesome!
And three: I also find Reach incredibly hard, taking an hour and a half or so per level.
 
May 25, 2010
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"I mean just look at the character for the new Castlevania. Does he look like a girl?"
"-No."
"My point exactly".

Rolling on the floor laughing. No joke.
 

latenightapplepie

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Nov 9, 2008
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Great episode. The amorphous blob and the cut to the Unskippable desk were both excellent. Keep up the good work!
 

TheMadTypist

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Sep 8, 2009
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Okay, that was funny. "That makes it worse!" :gun to head:

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who kept looping 0:23 to make Kathleen say "Bzz" over and over again. Right?
 

McMarbles

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May 7, 2009
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PayneTrayne said:
A few things: Goddammit Nintendo, I already own all starts. I don't want to buy it again.
...then, y'know... don't.

Pretty sure it's not mandatory.
 

The Admiral

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Jul 23, 2008
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McMarbles said:
PayneTrayne said:
A few things: Goddammit Nintendo, I already own all starts. I don't want to buy it again.
...then, y'know... don't.

Pretty sure it's not mandatory.
Article 17, Section 3 of the Fanboy Code of Conduct: "All fanboys MUST buy any and all game consoles, games, proliferies, remakes, reiterations, re-releases, series reboots, squeals, and prequeals released by Nintendo."

I guess you have to. It's the law.
 

Galad

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Nov 4, 2009
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I lol'd at quickbender's voice being cut off while he explains how Halo: Reach on legendary kicked his ass :p
 

WeirdBlueOne

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Nov 19, 2009
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Matt's reaction face to the blob was probably the best part of the episode.
I also really like "Does this look like a girl to you?" Me and Jeremy: "No?" "Exactly." Good one guys!
One question though: Why buttons?
 

Shuzumi

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Aug 24, 2010
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I saw the new Dante a few days ago... I don't think i'll stop raging until long after i've beaten the game
 

Ulquiorra4sama

Saviour In the Clockwork
Feb 2, 2010
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Pinstar said:
The question is, what changes (if any) will be made to female characters on a West-washed game?
Smaller boobies?

OT: Wow, i hadn't heard about that Mario thing... I usualy get behind what Nintendo says, but... wow.
 

Boba Frag

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Dec 11, 2009
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haha!
Good ole Paul... he's not in ENN enough these days.
I loved the episode- especially the "I'M OFFENDED" from the amorphous blob of green goo :p

Jeremy's look of utter confusion is brilliant!
 

PayneTrayne

Filled with ReLRRgious fervor.
Dec 17, 2009
892
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McMarbles said:
PayneTrayne said:
A few things: Goddammit Nintendo, I already own all starts. I don't want to buy it again.
...then, y'know... don't.

Pretty sure it's not mandatory.
My message was poorly conveyed. I meant that as a form of criticism so as to inspire some new work.
 

ef26fddb

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Sep 23, 2010
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Was anyone associated actually in Cambridge?
I presume not, given that Jer claims to be lots of places in ENN, and if he were actually everywhere he claimed, you guys would be broke from plane expenses, but maybe Cameron actually was at Harvard?

Also, Graham's head appears to jump as he says "What?" to Kathleen in the credits roll. Is this MPEG v4 failing at motion detection, or some sneaky editing?
 

Mydnyght

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Feb 17, 2010
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"I'M OFFENDED!!!"

Oh god...Blobby the Amorphous Blob is gonna give me nightmares now!

So this Japanese Mario 25th Anniversary collection for the Wii is just Super Mario All-Stars....

The self-same 4-game collection from 1993... and no other Mario games....

Okay. My head hurts.
 

Eijarel

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Jul 13, 2010
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I'm firmly against westwashing, it only feels to me like japan is dumbing down the characters to please the western audience,
even though is not, but if this happens the whole media is gonna encounter a bunch generic muscle-men mostly adults in their genres, (though admittedly same stereotype applies to the east, with the pretty boys with huge swords) ..but at least in the east lately that very same stereotype is now mocked by the japanese themselves, in recent J-games there has rarely been an actual character that follows the "cloud" archetype nowadays, unless is for intended self mockery.
now i dont think i fall withing the whole weeboo crap, since i do love western comics as much as japanese ones, but i think that both styles are great but i think that both should really stay within their own space. i feel is abit unfair for the japanese artists, per say that designed Nier, and having to have their artistic ideas changed.
 

Seneschal

Blessed are the righteous
Jun 27, 2009
561
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Did that PSP2 thing really happen? Wow, that's one big slip-up! How do you even do that unintentionally in an official statement for the press?

Apple conference:
"Und viss ze new iPhone, ve vill inklude a device dat vill sterilize the impure races, so dat ve kan rule the planet und rename it Apple. Our vorld konkvest vill be glorious."
"Could you repeat that, please?"
"Oopz. Nossing, I said nossing."
 

duchaked

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Dec 25, 2008
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LOL the Unskippable scene...so quick but I had to rewatch it. too funny =)

and while I won't argue with Western gamers sucking more, I think one can be forgiven for finding Halo Reach on Legendary to be a tad bit erm difficult
 

MattAn24

Pulse l'Cie
Jul 16, 2009
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"What!? No, that makes it worse!"
I <3 Paul.. That's right, I'm man enough to say it!

I.. I've already ranted about why JRPG vs. WRPG is stupid and petty way too many times only to do it more. So I'll pass on that one.

Also, did anyone else notice Graham's head go "HFBABDHJ!?" in the end credits when Kathleen said Yakuza is set in a zombie apocalypse, then Graham says "What?" Whether it's intentional or not, well played. It works well!

Morden2260 said:
Great episode. I loved Matt's muted Halo rant. The arm flailing said it all.
Y'know, it's even funnier knowing that it's true and Matt really was crazy-go-nuts about it. It was awesome.
 

Vohn_exel

Residential Idiot
Oct 24, 2008
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LOL this is one of the best episodes of ENN you've done in a while. Maybe it's because I should be asleep instead of watching this, but I loved it! The special segment wasn't that long and was definitely funny, and there were alot of regular reports too.

I have to say that I'm VERY irritated with the "West Washing" of DMC. There is more to the character then just his hair, but seriously the game doesn't need a reboot. I'll still probably play it,but I can't accept it as an actual Devil May Cry game. Also, you can say what you want about us sucking at video games, but I can kick your butt in Street Fighter :p.

MattAn24 said:
Also, did anyone else notice Graham's head go "HFBABDHJ!?" in the end credits when Kathleen said Yakuza is set in a zombie apocalypse, then Graham says "What?" Whether it's intentional or not, well played. It works well!
[/quote]

Yeah I noticed this as well. I figured there was a reason for it beyond just being silly,lol.
 

Cosplay Horatio

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May 19, 2009
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The only thing I probably will like about the new Matthew "Dante" Patel is the swords. Everything else I most likely will hate very much. I remember my first experience with West Washing with Tenchu Stealth Assassins for PSOne. One of the enemies you face off against is a woman guarding the gate with what looks like a giant Naginata and in the Japanese version its a little girl. Every controller purchased should come with shock absorption pads because of Halo anything on Legendary.
 

Azure-Supernova

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Aug 5, 2009
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Well hell, it worked for Konami. Look at Big Boss, the ultimate Western Patriot... solid beef, strategic war hero, smokes cigars, rugged and studly.
 

Xhoyl

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Dec 7, 2009
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Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Xhoyl said:
Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
 

AvsJoe

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May 28, 2009
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I <3 "Bzzzz"

The Unskippable desk was waaay out in left field, and all the more funny because of it. Also, because I have to:

[HEADING=2]All glory to the Amorphous Blob.[/HEADING]
 

sketchesofpayne

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Sep 11, 2008
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Actually if you're a fan of 'Until We Win' (Lordkat.com) you know that some older games were actually made MORE difficult for their North America release. Ostensibly this was to prevent you from renting the game and beating it in a weekend.
 

Xhoyl

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Dec 7, 2009
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Therumancer said:
Xhoyl said:
Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Xhoyl said:
[it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.[/quote]

However, video games are not about telling stories the way books do, but by giving the player control over the story and it's presumed outcome. The player is the one who decides how the protaganist(s) go about things, and in many case what motivates them, especially in RPGs.

Being given an iconic or pre-defined character lowers the immersion and feel that the player is somehow in control of making desicians. Ideally in an RPG, or computer game, it's the player who should define the character as much as possible, and the storyteller that sets the overreacing objective, and sets the stage with everything else.

Predefined characters are one of the things that is holding back the medium, and leading to people who by and large agree with you creating things that are little more than movies where the gameplay matters very little.
 

Xhoyl

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Dec 7, 2009
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Therumancer said:
However, video games are not about telling stories the way books do, but by giving the player control over the story and it's presumed outcome. The player is the one who decides how the protaganist(s) go about things, and in many case what motivates them, especially in RPGs.

Being given an iconic or pre-defined character lowers the immersion and feel that the player is somehow in control of making desicians. Ideally in an RPG, or computer game, it's the player who should define the character as much as possible, and the storyteller that sets the overreacing objective, and sets the stage with everything else.
I'm not saying that it should be done all the time. Certain games do benefit from not having predefined characters if the story isn't extremely important. But a game with a good story and characters CAN also have good gameplay and still be immersing. A great example is Beyond Good and Evil, if you ever played that, a cookie cutter protagonist would not have sufficed. And the game is still fun and immersing. It does not have to detract from a game. It often does however, especially when the writers aren't very good. In which case they should stick to the character creation stuff. As for me, I'll write good stories and characters for games that people can care about.
 

WOPR

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sooperman said:
Well I'm in favor of "West Washing". The East and the West have been influencing each other for generations, but the East still seems to make video games on completely different standards(and if not games, their characters).

There's nothing wrong with Japan's culture or Korea's MMOs, but I think that the silent majority is taking a stand against the weeaboos. World of Goo showed us that blobs do make effective characters if the plot stays simple, so maybe it's worth a try.
We can settle the problem of East vs West once and for all

MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3

anyways, now that THAT'S out of my system, I take offense to "west washing" westerners don't suck at games... okay most westerners do... BUT! I'd like to see someone else! (as in- other then me) beat Contra NES without the Konami code... or beat City Escape in less then 2:17, or actually I'd like to see anyone beat me at anything that isn't Halo/CoD (I hate modern shooters)