Escapist News Network: West Washing

Mydnyght

New member
Feb 17, 2010
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"I'M OFFENDED!!!"

Oh god...Blobby the Amorphous Blob is gonna give me nightmares now!

So this Japanese Mario 25th Anniversary collection for the Wii is just Super Mario All-Stars....

The self-same 4-game collection from 1993... and no other Mario games....

Okay. My head hurts.
 

Eijarel

New member
Jul 13, 2010
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I'm firmly against westwashing, it only feels to me like japan is dumbing down the characters to please the western audience,
even though is not, but if this happens the whole media is gonna encounter a bunch generic muscle-men mostly adults in their genres, (though admittedly same stereotype applies to the east, with the pretty boys with huge swords) ..but at least in the east lately that very same stereotype is now mocked by the japanese themselves, in recent J-games there has rarely been an actual character that follows the "cloud" archetype nowadays, unless is for intended self mockery.
now i dont think i fall withing the whole weeboo crap, since i do love western comics as much as japanese ones, but i think that both styles are great but i think that both should really stay within their own space. i feel is abit unfair for the japanese artists, per say that designed Nier, and having to have their artistic ideas changed.
 

Seneschal

Blessed are the righteous
Jun 27, 2009
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Did that PSP2 thing really happen? Wow, that's one big slip-up! How do you even do that unintentionally in an official statement for the press?

Apple conference:
"Und viss ze new iPhone, ve vill inklude a device dat vill sterilize the impure races, so dat ve kan rule the planet und rename it Apple. Our vorld konkvest vill be glorious."
"Could you repeat that, please?"
"Oopz. Nossing, I said nossing."
 

duchaked

New member
Dec 25, 2008
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LOL the Unskippable scene...so quick but I had to rewatch it. too funny =)

and while I won't argue with Western gamers sucking more, I think one can be forgiven for finding Halo Reach on Legendary to be a tad bit erm difficult
 

MattAn24

Pulse l'Cie
Jul 16, 2009
656
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"What!? No, that makes it worse!"
I <3 Paul.. That's right, I'm man enough to say it!

I.. I've already ranted about why JRPG vs. WRPG is stupid and petty way too many times only to do it more. So I'll pass on that one.

Also, did anyone else notice Graham's head go "HFBABDHJ!?" in the end credits when Kathleen said Yakuza is set in a zombie apocalypse, then Graham says "What?" Whether it's intentional or not, well played. It works well!

Morden2260 said:
Great episode. I loved Matt's muted Halo rant. The arm flailing said it all.
Y'know, it's even funnier knowing that it's true and Matt really was crazy-go-nuts about it. It was awesome.
 

Vohn_exel

Residential Idiot
Oct 24, 2008
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LOL this is one of the best episodes of ENN you've done in a while. Maybe it's because I should be asleep instead of watching this, but I loved it! The special segment wasn't that long and was definitely funny, and there were alot of regular reports too.

I have to say that I'm VERY irritated with the "West Washing" of DMC. There is more to the character then just his hair, but seriously the game doesn't need a reboot. I'll still probably play it,but I can't accept it as an actual Devil May Cry game. Also, you can say what you want about us sucking at video games, but I can kick your butt in Street Fighter :p.

MattAn24 said:
Also, did anyone else notice Graham's head go "HFBABDHJ!?" in the end credits when Kathleen said Yakuza is set in a zombie apocalypse, then Graham says "What?" Whether it's intentional or not, well played. It works well!
[/quote]

Yeah I noticed this as well. I figured there was a reason for it beyond just being silly,lol.
 

Cosplay Horatio

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May 19, 2009
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The only thing I probably will like about the new Matthew "Dante" Patel is the swords. Everything else I most likely will hate very much. I remember my first experience with West Washing with Tenchu Stealth Assassins for PSOne. One of the enemies you face off against is a woman guarding the gate with what looks like a giant Naginata and in the Japanese version its a little girl. Every controller purchased should come with shock absorption pads because of Halo anything on Legendary.
 

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
3,024
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Well hell, it worked for Konami. Look at Big Boss, the ultimate Western Patriot... solid beef, strategic war hero, smokes cigars, rugged and studly.
 

Xhoyl

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Dec 7, 2009
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Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Xhoyl said:
Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
 

AvsJoe

Elite Member
May 28, 2009
9,055
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I <3 "Bzzzz"

The Unskippable desk was waaay out in left field, and all the more funny because of it. Also, because I have to:

[HEADING=2]All glory to the Amorphous Blob.[/HEADING]
 

sketchesofpayne

New member
Sep 11, 2008
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Actually if you're a fan of 'Until We Win' (Lordkat.com) you know that some older games were actually made MORE difficult for their North America release. Ostensibly this was to prevent you from renting the game and beating it in a weekend.
 

Xhoyl

New member
Dec 7, 2009
128
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Therumancer said:
Xhoyl said:
Really?
Therumancer said:
As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.
Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Xhoyl said:
[it's easier and takes less work for the developers.
Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.[/quote]

However, video games are not about telling stories the way books do, but by giving the player control over the story and it's presumed outcome. The player is the one who decides how the protaganist(s) go about things, and in many case what motivates them, especially in RPGs.

Being given an iconic or pre-defined character lowers the immersion and feel that the player is somehow in control of making desicians. Ideally in an RPG, or computer game, it's the player who should define the character as much as possible, and the storyteller that sets the overreacing objective, and sets the stage with everything else.

Predefined characters are one of the things that is holding back the medium, and leading to people who by and large agree with you creating things that are little more than movies where the gameplay matters very little.