Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers Part 2

STARSaIphaTeam

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Apr 25, 2011
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Yes!! Even though I won't mind the "cake" ending, I would love to see my Shepard with the blue children. But I won't mind the heroic death scene either.
My thoughts exactly.

I would totally read an epiloge, watch slideshows, something. Anything. I just feel empty with the endings. I would welcome a Cake ending, but would be just as statified with the alternitive.

And yes, I will buy ANY DLC that shines light on this finale. To be honest, I feel like that might have been the intention the whole time. Selling DLC.

Don't care. It worked. I want DLC!
 

Tyler Poling

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If they do plan on releasing DLC that "fixes" the ending, or expands on it would we be responsible consumers if we buy it (assuming that they charge us)? To me, if that is the case, that means that they published and released an incomplete game; a game without an ending. Shouldn't we as consumers be entitled to a complete game? In my eyes we are consumer whores if we buy into their DLC.
 

Seatownstriker

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Valstad said:
Plot Holes and going against established lore - Really for long term fans its just incomprehensible.
And say it was all a dream? Remember the dream sequences? The very end closely resembles the dreams. If you Choose the destroy ending, you see that little cut scene with someone in rubble taking a breath in. There is no way Shepard would survive a drop from space after destroying the Citadel. And having it fall on him then surviving? I don't think so.
 

burningdragoon

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Jul 27, 2009
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ravenshrike said:
burningdragoon said:
ravenshrike said:
Well, Bioware has admitted...
Stop right there. That's a pretty big [citation needed] statement right there
Eh, it turns out I was wrong. Sort of. There's two separate sources basically confirming it. I thought the game app thing was Bioware approved, which does state that the indoctrination was part of the ending originally. However now they're(Bioware) scrambling and saying it's not.


That being said, from the same source that originally leaked the details of LotSB and was 100% correct about it months in advance, has leaked info on a DLC called The Truth as well as multiplayer DLC. The Truth being the actual ending of the game. Due out in April/May.
Well obviously I'll only believe when I see it, but that's interesting at least. Do you have any link-age anyway?
 

Gigatoast

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Personally I like the idea of you being able to get a SUPER HAPPY ending, but only if you had to work your ass of to get it.

If you told me there was an ending where Shepard and Tali walk off into the sunset but the only way to get it was beating the game on insanity mode, congratulations you just added 50 more hours to my play time.
 

Nicholas Brunskill

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Mar 17, 2010
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Part of the issue is that, in a series built and marketted on the whole premise of "choice & consequence" - Casey Hudson is quoted as saying that there are a "different set of results? and a ?huge set of consequences? in interview just prior to launch, there is a jarring lack of it in the ending. I have no issue with the idea of a heroic sacrifice - it fits some Shepards more than others, however, in a series built on the premise of choice and consequence, shouldn't there also be the option to choose a heroic victory, especially for those that choose to bust a gut to max out on the EMS?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Gigatoast said:
Personally I like the idea of you being able to get a SUPER HAPPY ending, but only if you had to work your ass of to get it.

If you told me there was an ending where Shepard and Tali walk off into the sunset but the only way to get it was beating the game on insanity mode, congratulations you just added 50 more hours to my play time.
I think you're right.

I think there should be a type of ending for everyone.

Want a tragic ending? Want a bittersweet ending? Want a 'cake ending'?

You should have the option to get it.

Garrus and Shepard, drinking a beer on a beach, in front of Tali's home on Rannoch.
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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Alamandorious said:
Just an FYI: The explosive power of the Relays is mentioned in the ME3 secondary codex, in game...so it's still very much canon for this one.

To be fair, that doesn't bother me at all. The relay in Arrival is destroyed by crashing it into a planet. As far as we know, the relays at the end of ME3 are disabled and therefore rendered inert before they are destroyed.

Just had to make that point. Endings still suck.

Who else here thought there would be a chance if you totally failed to rally enough support that you initiate the big ending fight, and are immediately blown out of the sky? Given the possibility of catastrophic failure in ME2, that scenario was likely for the third game.

The outrage definitely isn't about there being no "cake ending".
 

savage1987swb

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Jan 5, 2012
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Right, Just finished listening to the whole podcast.

Firstly, the ending really browned me off. I played through, as I play all computer RPGs, as though I was actually Shepard, and so the decisions I make reflect the sorts of choices I would make. And Bioware did a really good job of making a mostly paragon but with elements when it's just easier to go renegade... or when sodding Kai Leng just needed to be taught a lesson. The problem with the ending was that philosophically I disagreed with every point there.

Going into the final battle, I had decided that if at all possible, I wouldn't kill all the Reapers, I felt that would be just plain wrong, just as wrong as what the Reapers were doing, so having to kill not only all Reapers, but all other synthetic life? Yeah, that's a huge no no. Then there is control, not only do I agree with what was said about not trusting myself, but again, as with above, I didn't think that I had the right to control the Reapers. Yes, they might be evil murderous types making the Martians from War of the Worlds sounds at me, but they are still alive, and so I have no right to control them.

The synthsis option was the one I hated the most, but also the one I found most palatable... if that can ever make sense. I really wanted an Evolution really doesn't work like that! arguement, Evolution isn't some progression to a final stage, but a wonderful development of diversity, and so to make a decision to make everyone into the same thing was wrong on that level. But also, if we assume that it is a development to a final stage, there are two issues. Firstly, Daleks, we all ended up a Daleks, Really? Is that my ending? And secondly, does anyone have a right to push a magic red button marked stop all development of species now?

I picked that option because, though I hated it the most, it didn't break as many of the philosophies that I hold dear. The whole you're indoctrinated thing... eh, I really don't buy it. Please, if you're going to make that canon, then you've got to give me some idea that it's going on, you've got to give me more to know why it's happening, if you've taken steps that reduce my options leading up to this, so I can see it coming, and I know it's happening to what is essentially me, then yeah, I can dig that, it would be a fantastic Lovecraftian ending. But there isn't any of that, it's just bam, here you go, 3 options, all of which are bad. And then, you'll know nothing about how the universe develops from here. I couldn't give a damn at the end when they were going on about 'The Shepard' What happened to Rannock? What happened to the Krogan? The Rachni?
 

FitScotGaymer

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Mar 30, 2011
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Hey folks.

Just posting here to raise a few points.

Firstly Bioware haven't said very much about the endings as of yet, except a cryptic hint by the MassEffect twitter saying something along the lines of its probably a good idea not to trust the "endings" of the game.

Secondly, about the Mass Effect Relays "exploding" - that didn't bother me. I mean I didn't see that as inconsistent or a plot hole simply because it is entirely possible to blow shit up in a controlled and contained manner. I assumed that these explosions were of the controlled variety. The thing that bothered me about it is that it basically wrecks the Galaxy, and dooms everyone left in the Sol System/Local Cluster (most especially the Turians and Quarians) as Earth will most likely be a dead world due to the Citadel crashing onto it, the Krogan will probably eat everyone else, and the Quarians and Turians can't each Local food because of their unique DNA.

Thirdly, please check out Jeremy Jahn's youtube video about the issue for a thorough and accurate explanation of why we think the endings suck.

Fourthly, let me just agree with the others here and agree that it isn't about wanting a Happy Flowery Shepard and Co Live Happily Ever After ending. It is about getting an ending that make's sense.
Many of the themes and things touched on by the catalyst are not explored enough to make sense in the context of the universe, and you can do things that actively disprove the catalyst's logic (settling the quarian/geth conflict as an example).
And the fact that Shepard just nods along accepting what he is told by the REAPER AI BOSS without challening it? Makes. No. Sense.

Fifthly, Mass Effect Fields do not protect from the vacumn of space. ME fields are porous to allow for the passage of Air Molecules so that the person inside the field does not suffocate, and unless they have changed it I am fairly certain its in the codex entry.
The Docking Modules of the Citadel are a large area of space that is protected by a type of force field that DOES hold in Air, and this is not an issue because the stations air filtration system reaches the docking areas.

And the very last thing I want to say:- too many people these days in the gaming industry (journalists included) are starting to erroneously view Video Games as something they aren't. Namely as some sort of Great Art form.

This is absolutely not what Games are.

Video Games aren't Art. Oh you can get Art "Video Games" that actually ARE Art, but they are specifically made in such a way as that they are meant to be Art, and aren't really "games". And by that I mean that Art is supposed to be this beautiful thing that provokes thought and discussion, something that makes you think and feel and Art Games do this.

Video Games are not Art because Video Games' entire point is to do the total opposite thing from Art. Video Games are for entertainment, they are something that is intended to help you pass the time. Ultimately they are a distraction; something that stops you from thinking. Something fun and diverting.
The goal of a Video Game is something Diametrically opposed to what Art tries to do.

Don't get me wrong you can get video games that are incredibly artistic, and there are people who work for Video Game Developers that are incredibly artistic. But there is a world of difference between something being Artistic or Artsy, and actually being Art.

This erroneous view has filtered down from the industry into the communities/fan bases of Video games in certain places; and it results in the arguement that people don't have a right to ask for the ending's to be changes so they make more sense to more people because it is some how a violation of the Developer's "Artistic Rights" or some such nonsense.

This is wrong. As I detailed before Video Games are not art. They are a product that is designed to delight, distract, and entertain. And because it is a product, it means that it has a consumer base. And ANY consumer base absolutely has the right to ask, even demand, that a product be changed to suit their desires if it promises to fulfill those desires and does not (assuming that those desires are reasonable, and the complaints legitimate). This is something that is actually in many countries enshrined in Law; if a product does not meet expectations, if it does not "work as advertised" then its consumer base has a right to redress in some way.
The fact that Forbes Magazine (possibly the most famous magazine in the world) supports my viewpoint is something that makes me think I am right. After all Forbes knows business.

And, thats about all I can say on that.
 

Tyler Poling

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Nov 4, 2011
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You troll, this isn't an argument if games are art or not (which they totally are you tit), It's a discussion if you liked the ending or not.
 

wicket42

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Feb 15, 2011
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I just really don't like the endings.
The catalyst is introduced last minute and raises more questions than answers, you shouldn't be adding to your plot at this stage, you should be winding down the tension.
I don't like any of the choices you make.

Synthesis is just silly, too far of a leap of logic for me, and in a way feels like I'm defiling everybody without their consent...and how the eff do you add DNA to a Geth? DNA doesn't work like that!

Destroy also fucks over the Geth, so genocide is just about the least heroic ending I can think of.

Control is not what we set out to do from the start, it's what the illusive man wanted, and that's too much power for any one person to have, so it's out of character for Shep.

There is no catharsis from any of the chosen endings.

Stranding your crew (in the half assed way they did) is more cheap emotional manipulation just as bad as killing the kid in the beginning of the game. BioWare's strength is their characters and you strand them on a friggin desert island?

The destruction of the Mass Relays, I guess I can come around to, but I don't understand why they felt the need to torch their universe. Star Wars is great because you can easily imagine further adventures in that galaxy far far away...I can't help but feel prequels are always boring because you know the future, and a sequel in the ME universe after the relays are destroyed .... well I can't help but feel it's not the universe I fell in love with.


BioWare should WANT to re-do the endings. I can't fathom they're satisfied with them if what you say is true, and they love the characters even more than we do.
 

Tyler Poling

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Nov 4, 2011
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Tyler Poling said:
If they do plan on releasing DLC that "fixes" the ending, or expands on it would we be responsible consumers if we buy it (assuming that they charge us)? To me, if that is the case, that means that they published and released an incomplete game; a game without an ending. Shouldn't we as consumers be entitled to a complete game? In my eyes we are consumer whores if we buy into their DLC.
Also, I'm just re-asking the question because it got drowned out, I'd like to hear the Internet's thoughts.
 

Right Hook

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I like the indoctrination theory and would be totally cool if Bioware decided to go this way with the game. I really don't think I'll buy any DLC unless it takes place after the current ending of the game, I see no reason to boot up an old save and play a new scenario if I know none of it is going to mean shit at the end, just a moot point.

If Bioware decides against the indoctrination theory than they should still do some after the ending DLC, even if Shepard is dead in most of the games, let us play as Garrus (how badass would that be?) and have the DLC be all about solving the huge plot holes the game left and finding a way to return the fleets home, and finally showing us just how every race ended up after the war ended, just give us closure, even if it is somber.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Zetsubou-Sama said:
I was really enjoying this podcast until you started with the heroic ending thing -_-

Most people aren't annoyed Shepard died/heroic enough/happy endings, people want to have the option if they did everything right 100% EMS, and were all paragon and all that stuff, that they can get a happy ending.
Yes, this.

I didn't want every ending to be a mega happy ending, I wanted it to be one of the options. To have it be the ultimate ending to attain through a precise mix of Paragon and Renegade choices.

I don't really want new endings as DLC though. I just feel like they'll make even more of a mess out of it if they tinker with just to appease the fans.

Oh, and Kai Lang was probably the worst fucking character in the series. Who the hell was that guy and why should I suddenly care about his lame ass when I've got Reapers to worry about. And why for the love of god does he even wield a sword in a universe filled with laser weaponry? Where the fuck was Harbinger, where was my Reaper villain?
 

Purplecoyote

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Feb 10, 2010
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I wouldn't object to an ending where everyone gets martinis and has beach parties but I yeah,one with some kind of text scroll or image slideshow abou what happend to everyone would be just as good for me.

Also, Bioware, please don't only make a shitload of new guns or something as DLC I will cut you. Even if you release some kind of dlc for the singleplayer where you only get to play a ping pong mini game with your crew, I don't care, I'd buy that.