Exactly, it is the same as using the word entitled, just an easy way to dismiss an argument.Kingsnake661 said:
Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers Part 2
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
I feel the ending is broken, not because I felt nothing, I felt a lot. I think it's broken because it doesn't seem to acknowledge how bleak it is. It ends on a sunset with upbeat techno, that's out of place.
The game forces you to imagine what happens, but the situation you're left with is bleak as hell. It's just uncut despair, not tragic at all, tragedy should have a point.
When you create an unlikely situation that we see play out, we can believe it if it's explained, even if it's unlikely. Because the ending is so vague, what's most likely to happen is the only form of closure we have. We're forced to call back all the obscure lore we might have otherwise ignored because the game gives us nothing more to work with.
What's most likely to happen?. Well, the fleet will most likely starve, except for the geth, who will be mistrusted and go to war, in fact they might all go to war. The entire galactic government will collapse, in fact mercenaries and gangs, people who stayed away from the fight but still have guns will probably be in the best position. So they'll probably rule with an iron fist. The fleet might also just crash to earth (Which might get destroyed by all the rubble anyway), considering the Normandy crashed. And no, I don't think it was directly in the path of the beam, that's unlikely. As for why they up and ran, well I guess none of them really cared about Shepard, and just put up with him to save the galaxy, makes about as much sense as anything else.
And the Normandy is marooned on a strange planet (Because the only just then discovered teleportation) presumably outside our solar system, from which I doubt they will escape, since nobody can make the journey to save them. So they'll all probably die of old age or at like thirty due to lack of medical supplies, and that's assuming members like Garrus and Tali can even eat the food that grows there, those two will also spend their lives as the last members of their species, or that they don't all get killed by whatever might live there. Either way, even if you live (Again, teleportation man, it's just GREAT), you never see them again, and for me, Shepard will probably kill himself, as he makes it clear to Javik that his friends are basically the only thing that keeps him going.
So your crew is fucked, your'e fucked, and the galaxy will descend into a dark age of entropy. None of this means anything, it doesn't have a point other then "The world is shit and nothing you do will ever change that", it doesn't give you any emotional silver lining or closure, it's just pain. Pure uncut cynicism. At least with a corny "Sunshine and unicorns" ending you can just accept it as generic and move past it, appreciate the experience as a whole. Now everything you've sacrificed to protect, every person, every ideal you've held dear leads to nothing through a catch 22. You can't make a situation this bleak subject to interpretation and expect people to absorb something from it, because the most likely course of events is all we have to work with. And the most likely course of events doesn't make for a very satisfying story. What if the entire game was like that? well we probably wouldn't have been able to stop that first Reaper anyways.
It's like you hand somebody a video of someone throwing a baby off a bridge and wonder why their upset, because what you didn't tell them was that it was actually a prop made to look human. They had no way of knowing that, you can't expect them to come to that conclusion on their own. As far as they know, you took a video of somebody killing a kid, they're not gonna want to see you until you explain yourself.
Obviously, if Bioware wants their ending to be shit, fine, that's their right, but I'm done with this franchise then. As much as I love it, returning to it would just depress me, it all ultimately meant nothing. Every time I look at it I feel my gut drop, and I don't wanna deal with that. This isn't about strong arming, I think the ending sucked and I just want it out of my life, like a lost love that turned out to be a serial killer. I've always been big on it being better to have loved and lost but now I'd rather I'd never loved at all.
So I think it's perfectly reasonable for Bioware to listen to criticism the way they always have, and just consider an alternative. I'd be surprised to find that every one of their writers agreed with the ending decision. By all means, keep the endings and add new one on the side if you want, but don't just shut everyone out, if you can't stand by your ending with confidence then why keep it?. At the very least, come out and say "We like this ending, and we're not changing it". If that's their case, then I'd start to doubt their ability as writers but at least I'd know what to expect
The game forces you to imagine what happens, but the situation you're left with is bleak as hell. It's just uncut despair, not tragic at all, tragedy should have a point.
When you create an unlikely situation that we see play out, we can believe it if it's explained, even if it's unlikely. Because the ending is so vague, what's most likely to happen is the only form of closure we have. We're forced to call back all the obscure lore we might have otherwise ignored because the game gives us nothing more to work with.
What's most likely to happen?. Well, the fleet will most likely starve, except for the geth, who will be mistrusted and go to war, in fact they might all go to war. The entire galactic government will collapse, in fact mercenaries and gangs, people who stayed away from the fight but still have guns will probably be in the best position. So they'll probably rule with an iron fist. The fleet might also just crash to earth (Which might get destroyed by all the rubble anyway), considering the Normandy crashed. And no, I don't think it was directly in the path of the beam, that's unlikely. As for why they up and ran, well I guess none of them really cared about Shepard, and just put up with him to save the galaxy, makes about as much sense as anything else.
And the Normandy is marooned on a strange planet (Because the only just then discovered teleportation) presumably outside our solar system, from which I doubt they will escape, since nobody can make the journey to save them. So they'll all probably die of old age or at like thirty due to lack of medical supplies, and that's assuming members like Garrus and Tali can even eat the food that grows there, those two will also spend their lives as the last members of their species, or that they don't all get killed by whatever might live there. Either way, even if you live (Again, teleportation man, it's just GREAT), you never see them again, and for me, Shepard will probably kill himself, as he makes it clear to Javik that his friends are basically the only thing that keeps him going.
So your crew is fucked, your'e fucked, and the galaxy will descend into a dark age of entropy. None of this means anything, it doesn't have a point other then "The world is shit and nothing you do will ever change that", it doesn't give you any emotional silver lining or closure, it's just pain. Pure uncut cynicism. At least with a corny "Sunshine and unicorns" ending you can just accept it as generic and move past it, appreciate the experience as a whole. Now everything you've sacrificed to protect, every person, every ideal you've held dear leads to nothing through a catch 22. You can't make a situation this bleak subject to interpretation and expect people to absorb something from it, because the most likely course of events is all we have to work with. And the most likely course of events doesn't make for a very satisfying story. What if the entire game was like that? well we probably wouldn't have been able to stop that first Reaper anyways.
It's like you hand somebody a video of someone throwing a baby off a bridge and wonder why their upset, because what you didn't tell them was that it was actually a prop made to look human. They had no way of knowing that, you can't expect them to come to that conclusion on their own. As far as they know, you took a video of somebody killing a kid, they're not gonna want to see you until you explain yourself.
Obviously, if Bioware wants their ending to be shit, fine, that's their right, but I'm done with this franchise then. As much as I love it, returning to it would just depress me, it all ultimately meant nothing. Every time I look at it I feel my gut drop, and I don't wanna deal with that. This isn't about strong arming, I think the ending sucked and I just want it out of my life, like a lost love that turned out to be a serial killer. I've always been big on it being better to have loved and lost but now I'd rather I'd never loved at all.
So I think it's perfectly reasonable for Bioware to listen to criticism the way they always have, and just consider an alternative. I'd be surprised to find that every one of their writers agreed with the ending decision. By all means, keep the endings and add new one on the side if you want, but don't just shut everyone out, if you can't stand by your ending with confidence then why keep it?. At the very least, come out and say "We like this ending, and we're not changing it". If that's their case, then I'd start to doubt their ability as writers but at least I'd know what to expect
sumanoskae said:
Maybe that is the essence of the series, that the reapers are right, as incomprehensible as it may seem to us they do what must be done in order for organic life to continue. All possible scenarios have been determined or have been played out and the only way for life to continue and at least be given a chance at enjoying some semblance of civilization without destroying ourselves is to continue the cycle.
Organics just aren't able to comprehend the reality of the cosmos because it truly is something our nature does not let us accept. Sovereign, Harbinger and the reaper on Rannoch all say the same thing in that the cycle must continue or organic life is doomed. For all we know there really isn't an alternative and that is why it is beyond our ability to grasp. With the crucible we have finally broken the extinction cycle but at what cost? no one can know but its possible that the cycle will just continue again or it could be the decision that finally ends life as we know it. Shepard truly is taking the biggest gamble ever but at least he is giving organics a chance that the reapers never would...a chance to live on our own terms and the chance to fail.
ending was fine after i figured it out but...
when i first get up on normandy and traynor starts rambling abut upgrades i saw over my shoulder the aquairuim.
dam thing was empty
my next "who the hell forgot to feed my fish, it does not take much effort. just press the button. tell who let them die because i wish to end them in the most painful way possible."
now the ending
bioware says there will be more mass effect
also end of shepard saga
so only one choice; kill shep
otherwise people will expect to see shep in some way
they think its mass effect let's go say hi to shep on the way to my adventure
second got to get rid of crew or same problem
player "hey i am on omega. where's garrus and tali?"
to get rid of them either kill them or put them some place they can't leave
some stupid jungle planet far the ass out into space perfect.
how do they get there
answer- unexplained jump cause who cares
now can't they just jump back. no they have to stay lost
so every ending has to get rid of the way they left
thus
shep always dies
crews always crash lands never to be seen again
mass relays gone so crew can never come back
there you go
get rid of every meaningful character and the sequel requires a lot less writing about previous relationships
when i first get up on normandy and traynor starts rambling abut upgrades i saw over my shoulder the aquairuim.
dam thing was empty
my next "who the hell forgot to feed my fish, it does not take much effort. just press the button. tell who let them die because i wish to end them in the most painful way possible."
now the ending
bioware says there will be more mass effect
also end of shepard saga
so only one choice; kill shep
otherwise people will expect to see shep in some way
they think its mass effect let's go say hi to shep on the way to my adventure
second got to get rid of crew or same problem
player "hey i am on omega. where's garrus and tali?"
to get rid of them either kill them or put them some place they can't leave
some stupid jungle planet far the ass out into space perfect.
how do they get there
answer- unexplained jump cause who cares
now can't they just jump back. no they have to stay lost
so every ending has to get rid of the way they left
thus
shep always dies
crews always crash lands never to be seen again
mass relays gone so crew can never come back
there you go
get rid of every meaningful character and the sequel requires a lot less writing about previous relationships
. Cake ending: completely unnecessary. Shepard's death was a given - no problem with that. It is not what most fans are asking.
. Starchild reasoning: to quote someone at gamefaqs, the Creators probably were great engineers and terrible philosophers. To quote my 8-year old daughter: if they have a machine that can kill every robot in the universe, why worry about them at all? She's right, with space magic, the Reapers are obsolete.
. Synthesis: it is just ridiculous. Space Magic at its best. With no trauma whatsoever, every living creature gained batteries and kidneys. Joker even gained some lights on his hat.
. Cut and paste endings: Again, why I had to destroy the mass relays if I chose to control the Reapers?
. Joker scape: WTF?
. And let's not forget that Bioware said that they would not pull a "Lost" on us, that all questions would be answered.
I respect you guys a great deal, but I confess I was expecting a little bit more of criticism from you.
I can agree that the concept behind the endings was all right. New civilization, everyone in the battle stranded, great sacrifice, etc. But, I'm sorry, the execution was amateurish.
. Starchild reasoning: to quote someone at gamefaqs, the Creators probably were great engineers and terrible philosophers. To quote my 8-year old daughter: if they have a machine that can kill every robot in the universe, why worry about them at all? She's right, with space magic, the Reapers are obsolete.
. Synthesis: it is just ridiculous. Space Magic at its best. With no trauma whatsoever, every living creature gained batteries and kidneys. Joker even gained some lights on his hat.
. Cut and paste endings: Again, why I had to destroy the mass relays if I chose to control the Reapers?
. Joker scape: WTF?
. And let's not forget that Bioware said that they would not pull a "Lost" on us, that all questions would be answered.
I respect you guys a great deal, but I confess I was expecting a little bit more of criticism from you.
I can agree that the concept behind the endings was all right. New civilization, everyone in the battle stranded, great sacrifice, etc. But, I'm sorry, the execution was amateurish.
Cool, but this is just conjecture. Yeah, that's exactly what Bioware wanted, right?Coreless said:
The problem is that it's empty conjecture, the discussion is completely unfocused because there are too many lose ends. This is the result of someone trying to be smart and failing miserably.
The Irony is that with all the gaming media posting raving reviews and avoiding criticism, all this talk will probably sell more games.
But I guess Bioware image will suffer a little. It all depends on how thay are going to handle the situation.
Small problem with indoctrination theory, at least the idea that it's been happening since the beginning: The Prothean VI can tell when someone is indoctrinated. It refers to Kai Leng and Cerberus and "indcotrinated forces." It would mention something like it to the Normandy crew...
I was upset that shepard was so submissive, I wanted the hero to give the catalyst a piece of his mind and not be dictated to, or inversely do some talk-jitsu to convince that with the geth peace it can work this way. It annoyed me that the space hero lost all his defiance.
Also, I felt bad since all the texture of the games, all the places and cultures seemed to be not important, put aside for the high concept ending. If this ending was part of a bloated ME1 I probably would have received the endings better.
Also, I felt bad since all the texture of the games, all the places and cultures seemed to be not important, put aside for the high concept ending. If this ending was part of a bloated ME1 I probably would have received the endings better.
The Quarians had their Live Ships armed and the probably brought some with them so the food source probably doesn't condemned them to death they could either salvage or use them to make food for surviving Quarians/Turians. Anyone else think Liara may have raped your Shepard if you did romance her at the end.
To be honest, The lack of closure was about the only thing that killed it for me. In fact right up until joker discovered teleportation I was fine with the ending. Sure it was a bit plot holey, but it's not anything worse than the kind of things people were frothing about in ME2.
The crucible was a crapshoot from the beginning. They knew it had SOMETHING to do with stopping the Reapers, but nobody had any idea exactly what form that 'stopping' would take. The galaxy was losing, that was their all in bet. That's why I was fine with Shep just sucking up the god-child's options. Threats wouldn't work, the thing is practically inviting you to kill it. Logic and reasoning wouldn't work, it's already convinced of it's own superiority and will not devite from it's self-determined solutions. The eventual choice is the lesser of the evils in your shep's eyes.
I LOVED Shep's response to the synthesis option. "Then... There will be peace?" You can almost feel him start to break. The realization that he can't fight this, all he can do is end it. The Galaxy ponied up for him to roll the dice and now he has to own it... All of it... And he's so tired... So very tired...
Mass relays breaking? No hand-waving required. Sir Isaac Newton, baddest ************ in space remeber? Conservation of energy. Which means the rainbow scrub-brush is sucking up the juice from the relays to power its own jump to the next system. With the relays drained of energy, the force of the 'Beam' knocks them to peices.
And the galaxy is not as doomed as folks seem to think. We still have QE comms. Not to mention the not insignificant FTL drives posessed by the ships themselves. We can send messages to folks and let them know what's happening. The fleet can still move about the local cluster if needed, and if I remember correctly, the First Contact war was about how goddamn close Human territory is to Turian space in relative terms. There's got to be some outlier colonies that the dextro species can dry-dock on.
Also, remember the Cerberus News Network? The Asari were reportedly 'this close' to replicating mass relay technology themselves. And hell, we've got the quarians, who can make a steel rod make precision jumps with some circuit breakers and a bit of eezo, plus the entire crucible team at our disposal. Will they have to cannibalize some expensive warships for bits? Hell yes. Will we lose all our gas giants for H3 fuel? Absolutely. Is the situation as untenable as it seems at first glance? I don't believe so.
If bioware address what happened to the other characters in DLC then I can put up with space magic. And to be honest they've got no reason not to do so. If they're keeping it for future games, then they really need to retcon the shit out of the choices... You know, because of the fact that one of the endings means that every device or organism which passes the turing test is now a transsapient super-being. If they're not saving it, there's no reason in keeping it secret, amirite?
And I don't hold with the indoctrination theory. A twist like that is so completely out of Bioware's style that I feel like they're just going "lol, nice idea, but we're still not telling" like they usually do.
I get the Anger at what seems to be the waiter handing you a steaming shit on a platter instead of an after dinner mint after the magnificent meal that was ME3, but I must make the normative appeal. If we got the exposition we all so desperately seem to crave, would we really be as upset as we are?
The crucible was a crapshoot from the beginning. They knew it had SOMETHING to do with stopping the Reapers, but nobody had any idea exactly what form that 'stopping' would take. The galaxy was losing, that was their all in bet. That's why I was fine with Shep just sucking up the god-child's options. Threats wouldn't work, the thing is practically inviting you to kill it. Logic and reasoning wouldn't work, it's already convinced of it's own superiority and will not devite from it's self-determined solutions. The eventual choice is the lesser of the evils in your shep's eyes.
I LOVED Shep's response to the synthesis option. "Then... There will be peace?" You can almost feel him start to break. The realization that he can't fight this, all he can do is end it. The Galaxy ponied up for him to roll the dice and now he has to own it... All of it... And he's so tired... So very tired...
Mass relays breaking? No hand-waving required. Sir Isaac Newton, baddest ************ in space remeber? Conservation of energy. Which means the rainbow scrub-brush is sucking up the juice from the relays to power its own jump to the next system. With the relays drained of energy, the force of the 'Beam' knocks them to peices.
And the galaxy is not as doomed as folks seem to think. We still have QE comms. Not to mention the not insignificant FTL drives posessed by the ships themselves. We can send messages to folks and let them know what's happening. The fleet can still move about the local cluster if needed, and if I remember correctly, the First Contact war was about how goddamn close Human territory is to Turian space in relative terms. There's got to be some outlier colonies that the dextro species can dry-dock on.
Also, remember the Cerberus News Network? The Asari were reportedly 'this close' to replicating mass relay technology themselves. And hell, we've got the quarians, who can make a steel rod make precision jumps with some circuit breakers and a bit of eezo, plus the entire crucible team at our disposal. Will they have to cannibalize some expensive warships for bits? Hell yes. Will we lose all our gas giants for H3 fuel? Absolutely. Is the situation as untenable as it seems at first glance? I don't believe so.
If bioware address what happened to the other characters in DLC then I can put up with space magic. And to be honest they've got no reason not to do so. If they're keeping it for future games, then they really need to retcon the shit out of the choices... You know, because of the fact that one of the endings means that every device or organism which passes the turing test is now a transsapient super-being. If they're not saving it, there's no reason in keeping it secret, amirite?
And I don't hold with the indoctrination theory. A twist like that is so completely out of Bioware's style that I feel like they're just going "lol, nice idea, but we're still not telling" like they usually do.
I get the Anger at what seems to be the waiter handing you a steaming shit on a platter instead of an after dinner mint after the magnificent meal that was ME3, but I must make the normative appeal. If we got the exposition we all so desperately seem to crave, would we really be as upset as we are?
Ok, the indoctrination theory was kinda skipped over in this, if anyone wants to look at it closer this article is great.
http://www.gameseyeview.com/2012/03/15/why-i-liked-the-mass-effect-3-ending-eventually/
Something to note - this theory doesn't rely on retcons or anything like that. It actually makes more sense than the 'ending' we were given, so in all probability it is actually the truth (as intended by Bioware)
Basically the game Fight Clubbed us.
http://www.gameseyeview.com/2012/03/15/why-i-liked-the-mass-effect-3-ending-eventually/
Something to note - this theory doesn't rely on retcons or anything like that. It actually makes more sense than the 'ending' we were given, so in all probability it is actually the truth (as intended by Bioware)
Basically the game Fight Clubbed us.
I have to say the endings weren't that annoying to me. The really annoying think about the endings that annoyed me was the fact we were in a room, with three buttons and that picked our ending!
We all played three games and made a ton of decisions and yet not one informed our endings.
I would have rathered to be given an ending that joined in with my decisions.
We all played three games and made a ton of decisions and yet not one informed our endings.
I would have rathered to be given an ending that joined in with my decisions.
Susan is really down on the idea that Bioware owes people that have invested minimum 180 dollars in them a solid ending. I'm really surprised that nobody brought up the point that Bioware promised endings that directly reflected the actions of the player. It was disappointing to see Susan belittle the people who supported this idea as people who wanted the "cake ending", as if wanting to see Shepard have a good ending - the result of hundreds of hours of carefully choosing answers to the various quandaries posed by the Mass Effect series - is somehow a laughable desire.
I love tragedies. Macbeth, I love to pieces. Shadow of the Colossus? So good! But Mass Effect shouldn't be a tragedy, regardless of your actions. Unless the central theme of the game is that one's actions ultimately mean nothing - which it is most certainly NOT - there should be a variety of endings ranging from the mocked "hoorah and cake" ending, all the way to the soul-crushing "You have failed. The Universe is lost and it is all your fault." ending.
I love tragedies. Macbeth, I love to pieces. Shadow of the Colossus? So good! But Mass Effect shouldn't be a tragedy, regardless of your actions. Unless the central theme of the game is that one's actions ultimately mean nothing - which it is most certainly NOT - there should be a variety of endings ranging from the mocked "hoorah and cake" ending, all the way to the soul-crushing "You have failed. The Universe is lost and it is all your fault." ending.
WIth me, the ending was pretty much, why have all of my choices gone to nought? I made 3 games worth of choices, I wanted them all to mean something. I didn't get that. What I got instead was here is an ending. I could have stuck this ending at the end of anything else. It is just an ending sequence.
Also, Susan, in response to is this ending broken, if the ending was be bad enough that everyone is now talking about how bad it was but can still play mass effect 3, it's a bad ending. Mass effect twos ending was bad. People did talk about it's lack of choice at the time. However I know a fair few people who are simply not playing any mass effect anymore or replaying ME3 because of how disappointed and/or upset they were by the ending of mass effect 3. It's a broken ending as it stops people from wanting to play the game like an under powered or overpowered class would or a mechanic severely damaged in game mechanic.
To be honest I'd like something to be based around time to be incorporated into the ending. If the citadel were a reaper transmitter as it were you could design a message to shut them off or force them to retreat, but the potency is dependent on the amount of ships you have in the way of you and reapers, as when you do this all the reapers are gonna be coming to the citadel to stop you, It's their lives on the line and they are looking to survive, just as you are and after a certain length of time, you are going to have 0 ships left and no more message to send. Other factors could come into this as well like them not being able to use mass relays severely limiting their movements across space or cutting their communications isolating them in space and forcing them to be picked off one by one giving them an eternal presence in mass effect. That's how I saw it panning out anyway. One would be do we save earth or not (probably one of the most expensive ones) or weather Shepard lives or dies (again pricey something will need to be sacrificed), but something that gives every decision a meaning.
Also, Susan, in response to is this ending broken, if the ending was be bad enough that everyone is now talking about how bad it was but can still play mass effect 3, it's a bad ending. Mass effect twos ending was bad. People did talk about it's lack of choice at the time. However I know a fair few people who are simply not playing any mass effect anymore or replaying ME3 because of how disappointed and/or upset they were by the ending of mass effect 3. It's a broken ending as it stops people from wanting to play the game like an under powered or overpowered class would or a mechanic severely damaged in game mechanic.
To be honest I'd like something to be based around time to be incorporated into the ending. If the citadel were a reaper transmitter as it were you could design a message to shut them off or force them to retreat, but the potency is dependent on the amount of ships you have in the way of you and reapers, as when you do this all the reapers are gonna be coming to the citadel to stop you, It's their lives on the line and they are looking to survive, just as you are and after a certain length of time, you are going to have 0 ships left and no more message to send. Other factors could come into this as well like them not being able to use mass relays severely limiting their movements across space or cutting their communications isolating them in space and forcing them to be picked off one by one giving them an eternal presence in mass effect. That's how I saw it panning out anyway. One would be do we save earth or not (probably one of the most expensive ones) or weather Shepard lives or dies (again pricey something will need to be sacrificed), but something that gives every decision a meaning.
RE: 22:00 -- I don't think we can trust that Shepard can control them. The whole theme between Sovereign and the Illusive man is that any level of collusion with the reapers is death to the person who was colluding.
It reminded me of Morinth, telling Shepard that he is somehow different, and that he would survive. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isARefv1Nvo]
I mean, Synthesis or Control represent an admission that the Reaper's are right. And... even if they are right, I think it should have been hinted at earlier than the last few seconds of the game. Instead, every single "good" character seeks the utter destruction of the Reapers, and every "evil" character seeks to capitulate to or subjugate the Reapers.
RE: 24:00-26:00 -- I don't think synthesis is a "good" option either. Isn't it sort of unethical to force that faith on all Organic life? I don't really want to be part machine, and I don't think developing species like the Yahg or whatever should be forced into that decision as well.
RE: 28:36 -- A lot of people want to tell them to just go away.
RE: 29:00 -- I agree Susan. I don't think any one person has the right to make a decision like "Synthesis" for the whole galaxy.
RE: 43:00 -- Cake [http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-dfFJj7N/0/L/i-dfFJj7N-X2.jpg]
RE: 53:00-56:00 -- Yeah, I personally, as someone who would associate themselves with Retake Mass Effect and who donated to the Child's Play thing, I'm honestly OK with Shepard not surviving this. I just want an ending that makes sense and tells me what happened. I mean, I also wouldn't mind "Hoorah, lets get cake," lets be real.
Great discussion guys! I really appreciate how you guys try to empathize with us unlike Kotaku or IGN.
It reminded me of Morinth, telling Shepard that he is somehow different, and that he would survive. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isARefv1Nvo]
I mean, Synthesis or Control represent an admission that the Reaper's are right. And... even if they are right, I think it should have been hinted at earlier than the last few seconds of the game. Instead, every single "good" character seeks the utter destruction of the Reapers, and every "evil" character seeks to capitulate to or subjugate the Reapers.
RE: 24:00-26:00 -- I don't think synthesis is a "good" option either. Isn't it sort of unethical to force that faith on all Organic life? I don't really want to be part machine, and I don't think developing species like the Yahg or whatever should be forced into that decision as well.
RE: 28:36 -- A lot of people want to tell them to just go away.
RE: 29:00 -- I agree Susan. I don't think any one person has the right to make a decision like "Synthesis" for the whole galaxy.
RE: 43:00 -- Cake [http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-dfFJj7N/0/L/i-dfFJj7N-X2.jpg]
RE: 53:00-56:00 -- Yeah, I personally, as someone who would associate themselves with Retake Mass Effect and who donated to the Child's Play thing, I'm honestly OK with Shepard not surviving this. I just want an ending that makes sense and tells me what happened. I mean, I also wouldn't mind "Hoorah, lets get cake," lets be real.
Great discussion guys! I really appreciate how you guys try to empathize with us unlike Kotaku or IGN.
Well, for me, it's not about a new or different ending, but explaining what they gave us would go miles in the right direction. I mean, the game was awesome, I didn't notice any plot holes because I was so into it they flew right over my head, but the ending had some parts that were really off.
The first time the game had me thinking "wait, what?" was on that last run to the beacon, on foot. After the red-beam-of-death "hits" you (hits on quotes because I'm sure I dodged it, but who am I fooling, an rpg without a little railroading?), Shepard gets up with a different armor, and the guns you took with you have disappeared! At that point I was sure Shep was dead, and then everything made less sense as I went on.
On the citadel, Anderson gets to the controls before you, but the bridge you (and the Illusive Man, I believe) use to get there never retract, but you never see from where Anderson came, because there are no other bridges! And if he was on the same corridor as you, but ahead of you, how did you not see him, since you get a pretty good view of the last ramp leading to the controls before he tells you he found a way there and the radio goes silent!
I'm just confused about the ending, what was accomplished? What happened to everyone? Is Shep dead or not? I think I have a headache...
The first time the game had me thinking "wait, what?" was on that last run to the beacon, on foot. After the red-beam-of-death "hits" you (hits on quotes because I'm sure I dodged it, but who am I fooling, an rpg without a little railroading?), Shepard gets up with a different armor, and the guns you took with you have disappeared! At that point I was sure Shep was dead, and then everything made less sense as I went on.
On the citadel, Anderson gets to the controls before you, but the bridge you (and the Illusive Man, I believe) use to get there never retract, but you never see from where Anderson came, because there are no other bridges! And if he was on the same corridor as you, but ahead of you, how did you not see him, since you get a pretty good view of the last ramp leading to the controls before he tells you he found a way there and the radio goes silent!
I'm just confused about the ending, what was accomplished? What happened to everyone? Is Shep dead or not? I think I have a headache...
Ending is too disjointed from the rest of the game. It is filled with plot holes crappy logic and space magic suddenly appearing in what has been up until that bit very solid and well explained universe. It almost felt like I was playing another game that happened to have the same characters in it.
Normandy magically picked up your squad who are all ground side while the Normandy has apparently been partaking in the space battle and everyone abandoning you to your fate = total bullshit these guys are your comrades your best friends and possible even a lover no way in hell any of them would leave you behind.
Anderson supposedly took the beam after Shep but ends up somewhere else yet manages to reach a circular platform with NO other ways to get to it apart from the straight path from where Shep arrives. Also Anderson is none the worse for wear, you have your armour all but burnt off and can barely move, Anderson doesn't have a rip in his pants.
Last 10 minutes opens up a whole bunch of questions that it doesn't answer and doesn't even offer us up any closure at all about what happened to our squadmates, seriously the final game in the series suddenly pulls in a god like character from left field and space magic out the ass, biotics is one thing but managing to somehow being able to rewrite the DNA of every species to be part organic part synthetic is stretching it.
Where is the final confrontation?
ME, epic battle with Saren with epic final scene
ME2, epic battle with Proto Human Reaper small decision epic ending scene
ME3, limping down a hallway with chat with TIM followed by a scene chatting with Anderson followed by a chat with some god like being who comes from nowhere who pokes holes in everything we have been told up to now and a bunch of circular logic then goes well **** you're here now pick from A, B or C to finish game. No epic final fight no confrontation with Harbinger, just 10 minutes of dialogue and and pickyourending'o'matic.
3 possible closing cinematics that use 95% of the same resources with either a red green or blue colour filter. Felt kinda ripped off by that seeing these are supposed to the ultimate endings to 5 years of games being almost identical.
The ending feels rushed, it feels like someone got pulled in off the street given a basic plot summary and told to come up with an ending having no real context of the games the universe or the story.
Ending wise this is how I think it should have gone
Bad ending: Reapers win, simple as that.
Bitter sweet ending: you die but but beat the reapers. Short cinematic showing you being buried on earth the remains of your friends standing around your grave and if you had one your LI giving a short speech (if not Hackett), camera pans out to show a massive forces of all the species you brought together paying their respects to the greatest hero the galaxy have ever known. Follow this with a synopsis of what happened to the various races/friends based on what you did, either text based al a DA:Origins or voiced.
Good Ending: I think there should be one and it should be all but impossible to get unless you have an imported character from the original ME, so many people have 90+ hours invested in a single save across 3 separate games that not giving the chance at blue babies, a house on Rannoch or sipping brews with Garrus on some beach is imo at least a little on the harsh side.
Normandy magically picked up your squad who are all ground side while the Normandy has apparently been partaking in the space battle and everyone abandoning you to your fate = total bullshit these guys are your comrades your best friends and possible even a lover no way in hell any of them would leave you behind.
Anderson supposedly took the beam after Shep but ends up somewhere else yet manages to reach a circular platform with NO other ways to get to it apart from the straight path from where Shep arrives. Also Anderson is none the worse for wear, you have your armour all but burnt off and can barely move, Anderson doesn't have a rip in his pants.
Last 10 minutes opens up a whole bunch of questions that it doesn't answer and doesn't even offer us up any closure at all about what happened to our squadmates, seriously the final game in the series suddenly pulls in a god like character from left field and space magic out the ass, biotics is one thing but managing to somehow being able to rewrite the DNA of every species to be part organic part synthetic is stretching it.
Where is the final confrontation?
ME, epic battle with Saren with epic final scene
ME2, epic battle with Proto Human Reaper small decision epic ending scene
ME3, limping down a hallway with chat with TIM followed by a scene chatting with Anderson followed by a chat with some god like being who comes from nowhere who pokes holes in everything we have been told up to now and a bunch of circular logic then goes well **** you're here now pick from A, B or C to finish game. No epic final fight no confrontation with Harbinger, just 10 minutes of dialogue and and pickyourending'o'matic.
3 possible closing cinematics that use 95% of the same resources with either a red green or blue colour filter. Felt kinda ripped off by that seeing these are supposed to the ultimate endings to 5 years of games being almost identical.
The ending feels rushed, it feels like someone got pulled in off the street given a basic plot summary and told to come up with an ending having no real context of the games the universe or the story.
Ending wise this is how I think it should have gone
Bad ending: Reapers win, simple as that.
Bitter sweet ending: you die but but beat the reapers. Short cinematic showing you being buried on earth the remains of your friends standing around your grave and if you had one your LI giving a short speech (if not Hackett), camera pans out to show a massive forces of all the species you brought together paying their respects to the greatest hero the galaxy have ever known. Follow this with a synopsis of what happened to the various races/friends based on what you did, either text based al a DA:Origins or voiced.
Good Ending: I think there should be one and it should be all but impossible to get unless you have an imported character from the original ME, so many people have 90+ hours invested in a single save across 3 separate games that not giving the chance at blue babies, a house on Rannoch or sipping brews with Garrus on some beach is imo at least a little on the harsh side.
What the panel seem to not appreciate in my mind is how little of what had been promised over the past 5 years came to pass with this release. It's not that people want a Hollywood ending, we just want our actions to effect the final outcome much like in Dragon Age which is the one most people use as a comparison. They want Mass Effect 3 to be what it set out to be: A conclusion to the trilogy, not just a bundle of unanswered or half answered questions with what felt like a very rushed ending.