Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers Part 3

[MatsVS]

Since when does posting anything on a forum gain anyone anything? I don't see your point there.

Then you're dense. Discussions on internet forums is part of the public discourse, and by Bioware's own admission, invaluable to the game creation process. That means we matter! Right? ...right?

 

[ryo02]

Id really like to listen to these podcasts but they freeze up on me right at the start allways have and Im not sure why.
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Not done listening yet, but I wanted to post this (again) before I forget by the end. I did some math on the ending(s). For funzies.


<quote=me>

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson, ME3 Project Director

ending A B or C is exactly what we got.

we were lied to why wouldnt we have a problem with that? why wouldnt we ask for ending options we were promised I.E. not A B or C.

Technically you got ending A(1), A(2), B (1), B(2), or C. Just different enough to be true. Don't like it? Tough. Learn to not trust marketing people.

Hell you can go a lot deeper than that depending on how you look at it.

Let's say you only consider the "ending" to be everything after your final choices. So that means there are 7 endings that are different, right?
1) Destroy - Very Bad
2) Destroy - Bad
3) Destroy - Good
4) Destroy - Good + Shepard lives
5) Control - Bad
6) Control - Good
7) Synthesis

But wait! The people who get out of the Normandy at the end aren't always the same. So the Synthesis ending would have 7 distinct variations (Joker + Edi + 1 of the seven other squadmates). Just including that we already on 13 different endings. Adding just the other two(three) "good" version of the ending where it's Joker + 2 squadmates, we get 56 different possibilities each (8 potential people stepping out first, 7 potential people stepping out second). I think the bad versions have only 1 person step out, so that's about 8 variations for them. So now it's:

Ending 1: Destroy - Very Bad
Endings 2-9: Destroy - Bad (EDI can't step out so it's only 7 variations)
Endings 8-50: Destroy - Good
Endings 50-92: Destroy - Good + Shepard lives
Endings 92-100: Control - Bad
Endings 100-156: Control - Good
Endings 156-162: Synthesis

Holy crap, that's a lot of endings. Then if move the marker for the "beginning" of the "ending" to the conversation with the starchild (it's different' based on your EMS and if you destroyed the collector base in ME2) you have even more! Holy crap!

Now, taking it one (large) step even further. If you consider the entirety of Mass Effect 3 as the ending to the Mass Effect series, then you have a incredible amount of "endings."

Okay, there you go people. BioWare didn't lie about how many endings there were.

Please no one assume I'm defending the ending or the "promise" that was made. I'm simply pointing out that it's very silly to attach to one statement and use that as a basis for being "lied" to.

Edit: did some math wrong. I think it's right now.

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson, ME3 Project Director

ending A B or C is exactly what we got.

we were lied to why wouldnt we have a problem with that? why wouldnt we ask for ending options we were promised I.E. not A B or C.

yes yes 162 endings all virtually identical to A B or C and if your going to quote me please do me the courtesy of allowing me to defend myself.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

Id really like to listen to these podcasts but they freeze up on me right at the start allways have and Im not sure why.
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What browser do you use? And have you tried other browsers? Apart from that you can wait for them to be uploaded to iTunes. All the podcasts are there.

Here's a link.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/escapist-podcast-video-podcast/id478341667

So if all else fails listen to them in iTunes. =)

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Guy Jackson's statement about the war assets is also true. They did lie there. I've done practically every side quest in the game and I still never had 5000 in war assets that were "ready".

Actually, someone ran the math once, and if you make the "right" decisions throughout all three games, you CAN get over 8,000 War Assets (with the right choice, you only need 4,000 EMS I think instead of 5,000). Don't remember the details, but sounds believable...

Even if you're right (and I don't think you are) 4000 still does not get you the ending where Shepard lives. That needs 5000.

Edited to add:
Complete List of SP War Assets (including all bonuses from ME1, ME2, and all DLC)

Alien: 1000
Terminus Fleet: 200
Rachni Workers: 100
Volus Dreadnought Kwunu: 50
Shadow Broker Support Team: 40
Elcor Flotilla: 40
Shadow Broker Wet Squad: 25
Spectre Unit: 40
Volus Bombing Fleet: 75
Hanar and Drell Forces: 58
Batarian Fleet: 155
Citadel Defense Force: 217

Alliance: 1701
Alliance Engineering Corps: 290
103rd Marine Division: 145
Alliance First Fleet: 103
Alliance Third Fleet: 105
Kahlee Sanders: 30
Biotic Company: 75
Jack: 25
Arcturus First Division: 60
Alliance Spec Ops Team Delta: 35
Alliance Cruiser Shanghai: 40
Alliance Naval Exploration Flotilla: 75
Communication Arrays: 50
Alliance Sixth Fleet: 90
Dr. Karin Chakwas: 10
Rogue Fighter Pilots: 20
Alliance Fifth Fleet: 113
Kasumi Goto: 25
Zaeed Massani: 25
Diana Allers: 5
Alliance Frigate Normandy SR-2: 115
Mineral Resources: 100
Zhu's Hope Colonists: 30
Ashley Williams/Kaidan Alenko: 25
Khalisah Bent Sinan al-Jilani: 10
Eden Prime Support: 100

Asari: 668
Asari Science Team: 90
Asari Second Fleet: 123
Asari Sixth Fleet: 130
The Destiny Ascension: 70
Asari Commandos: 20
Samara: 25
Dr. Jelize: 25
Armali Sniper unit: 30
Serrice Guard: 30
Asari Cruiser Nefrane: 30
Asari Research Ships: 35
Asari Cruiser Cubaen: 30
Asari Engineers: 30

Crucible: 815
Advanced Starship Fuel: 75
Javelin Missile Launchers: 50
Volus Fabrication Units: 45
Volus Engineering Team: 50
Interferometric Array: 45
ExoGeni Scientists: 40
Prothean Data Files: 75
Shadow Broker Starship Tech: 50
Terminus Freighters: 30
Element Zero Converter: 50
Emergency Fuel Pods: 30
Advanced Power Relays: 50
Haptic Optics Array: 50
Reaper Brain: 110
Optimized Eezo Capacitors: 15
Dark Energy Dissertation: 5
Advanced AI Relays: 45

Ex-Cerberus: 260
Cerberus Research Data: 50
Advanced Fighter Squadron: 75
Ex-Cerberus Scientists: 25
Dr. Brynn Cole: 25
Dr. Gavin Archer: 25
Jacob Taylor: 25
Ex-Cerberus Engineers: 10
Miranda Lawson: 25

Krogan: 790
Urdnot Wreav: 25
Grunt: 25
Aralakh Company: 50
Krogan First Division: 50
Krogan Clans: 340
Clan Urdnot: 300

Geth: 815
Geth Corps: 300
Geth Fleet: 455
Geth Prime Platoon: 60

Salarian: 303
Major Kirrahe: 20
Salarian First Fleet: 150
Salarian Third Fleet: 133

Turian: 638
Turian 79th Flotilla: 40
Turian Sixth Fleet: 143
Turian Marine Division: 90
Turian Seventh Fleet: 140
Turian Blackwatch: 75
Turian Engineering Corps: 110
Turian Spec Ops Team: 40

Quarian: 525
Admiral Daro'Xen: 25
Admiral Zall'Koris: 25
Quarian Civilian Fleet: 150
Quarian Heavy Fleet: 175
Quarian Patrol Fleet: 150

Total Military Strength: 7515
Effective Military Strength: 3757.5

 

[Susan Arendt]

-snip-

Two questions for you, and the rest of the podcast crew if they want to chime in.

One: Did you ever want to have Blasto: The Hanar Specter, or someone similar as a squadmate?

Two: Did you do the Elcor ambassador's mission? If so, would you have liked to see Elcor in combat/have an Elcor squadmate?

Also, just a comment, Mass Effect 3 strikes me as a game that run out of time and resources as they neared the end of production, so the ending was probably rushed and a lot of planned content may have been lopped off.

One: I didn't actually know about the Blasto easter egg until long after I'd finished the game! I know, sad.

Two: Absolutely! Well, probably not a squadmate, as they'd likely get stuck on corners, but I would've really liked to have seen them in action.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Susan is a bit of a bully in conversation.

You consider asking people to explain/stick up for their statements being a bully? It's easy to just say "This is art, but this isn't," but explaining why you believe that or feel that way adds a great deal of context and revelation to the discussion.

 

[370999]

Susan is a bit of a bully in conversation.

You consider asking people to explain/stick up for their statements being a bully? It's easy to just say "This is art, but this isn't," but explaining why you believe that or feel that way adds a great deal of context and revelation to the discussion.

Indeed. You remind me more of like a host of a panel show then a bully. Without your role, the show would be, IMHO, much duller.

That said, in future is there any way you could get two people who disagree on a issue and you act as the moderator between the two. Like I really liked this podcast but I think if we had someone who was very much against changing the ending the discussion could of been livelier.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Susan is a bit of a bully in conversation.

You consider asking people to explain/stick up for their statements being a bully? It's easy to just say "This is art, but this isn't," but explaining why you believe that or feel that way adds a great deal of context and revelation to the discussion.

Indeed. You remind me more of like a host of a panel show then a bully. Without your role, the show would be, IMHO, much duller.

That said, in future is there any way you could get two people who disagree on a issue and you act as the moderator between the two. Like I really liked this podcast but I think if we had someone who was very much against changing the ending the discussion could of been livelier.

I agree, but we don't want to force anyone to "play" a particular role. We tend to agree on things much of the time, which doesn't make for overly contentious discussion. It'd be great if there was more division on such a hot topic like this, but we don't want to fake it just to facilitate the entertainment. Part of what I personally really appreciate about working here is that we feel it's very important to just be ourselves, because we're nerds just like you guys. Well, we're maybe a bit more boring. But otherwise very similar.

 

[Slaanax]

I don't think you characterization matters that much in a way because, many times people are uplifted despite their personal feeling. I like the thermal change it forced me on the harder difficulties to use more weapons than the first game.

 

[The Deadpool]

Even if you're right (and I don't think you are) 4000 still does not get you the ending where Shepard lives. That needs 5000.

SNIP

Total Military Strength: 7515
Effective Military Strength: 3757.5

I remember reading somewhere that there's a choice that lowers the requirement from 5,000 to 4,000... I think it's the saving Anderson thing, but again, I haven't tested it.

Also, the list is missing some things. The Heart, Wrex, Mordin, Salarian STG, etc...

Not saying you CAN get 8,000 for sure. Just saying, I've seen some convincing posts about it.

 

[Helge]

I'm amazed that with a whole group of game journalists in one room, trying to say what changing the ending was like, no-one made the simile of pulling a review/changing the score based on advertiser complaint or fan outrage.

 

[cardinalwiggles]

my ideas for a mass effect spin-off and possible series.
Mass effect: krogan rebellion,
Mass effect: first contact,
Mass effect Rachni Wars,
Mass effect: rebuilding Tuchanka (set directly after the events of mass effect 3, after the cure is built),
Mass effect: We are Legion (play as a Geth finding sentience and first rebel)
Mass effect: Beginning (play as shepard using the background information on mass effect 3 like sole survivor and war hero (more DLC than anything but still a cool idea IMHO))
Mass effect: Cerberus Uprising (the illusive man when he was less illusive)
Mass effect: Citadel (play within the time of first meeting of the council and bounce around the political ideas of all the new races as they try to come together)


a few ideas formed from the podcast love it. hope it was interesting

 

[Eleima]

Finally finished Mass Effect 3 last night, and immediately listened to part 2 & 3 of the Mass Effect 3 podcast.

I'm 100% behind Justin on this issue, I think the ending is genuinely broken. It's not that I don't like it, it's just that I find it so jarring compared to the rest of the game, indeed the rest of the trilogy itself. I can handle my Shepard sacrificing herself for the good of the galaxy (and leaving Kaidan brokenhearted once more, although it grieves me). I can handle things going down the way they do, because hey, this is basically the end of the world as we know it. What I don't understand is why the mass relays would be destroyed in the process (it's a bit of a silly move on their part, since it means no more traveling, and kinda closes the door for more ME games, barring prequels). Worst still, why would my crew, who was on Earth with me just minutes, okay hours before, have fallen back to the Normandy, and gone through a relay or two. How would Kaidan, who'd just told my Shepard how much he loved her, who was with her during the final push to the beam, how would he end up on the Normandy?? It just doesn't add up, and that's what bugs me the most. Oh, and the crowing "wtf" moment was when they dropped me back at the Galaxy Map after all that, that certainly elicited a "wtf" reaction, right there.
That being said, the first 35 hours were awesome, the journey poignant, the missions interesting. The last 10 minutes... not so much. Like Justin (again), I agree that the ending's broken and that a few extra scenes would be nice. I agree that at the end, it felt like gathering and uniting all these different fleets and races was pointless. Total letdown. I don't necessarily need a "yay, we won, let's go have cake" ending, but I need closure. The magic cupcake ending (loved that term), as it is, just doesn't cut it.

Not buying the indoctrination theory, I really don't like the idea that the whole game was just some kind of acid trip, or something. Really wish there was an option "D", which destroyed the Reapers while sparring EDI and the geth. I went with synthesis, ultimately, because I thought "crap, I didn't jump through all those hoops, get EDI and Joker together, got the geth and quarians to stop shooting each other, to have them all killed". But it really left a bitter taste, because, hey, I'm pretty sure not everybody wants to be a cyborg.

In the end, I don't know how they're going to alter things with the Ending DLC, but... *sigh* In addition to the expected sense of loss which comes from the reaching the ending of a beloved series, I'm just really bummed by this ending.