Escapist Podcast: Bonus: The BioShock Infinite Podcat!
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
So the stealth section isn't spelled out with big letters and short words (but that's being nice; it actually is spelled out, in big letters and short words. And a picture). But if you don't get the idea after the first encounter then that's not the game's fault.
But it's not even necessary - it's a trivially easy section without stealth. The enemies are all slow and melee-only. There's plenty enough health/ammo/salts in the area to clear them all out.
But it's not even necessary - it's a trivially easy section without stealth. The enemies are all slow and melee-only. There's plenty enough health/ammo/salts in the area to clear them all out.
About Comstock's racism:
There's a voxophone you can find from Comstock where he talks about being accused of "Having a few teepees in his family tree" by other soldiers (Slate also mentions something about him being called the "White Injun of Wounded Knee') which was one of the reasons he was so brutal during the massacre - he was trying to prove that he wasn't one of the "others".
Given that Comstock's big thing was that he never truly repented his actions but rather took for granted the forgiveness he'd be granted by God (the difference in Booker being he felt he could never be forgiven), is where Comstock's racism comes from - trying to prove that he's the Great White Messiah he claims to be and not of mixed race with a bit too much zeal.
EDIT: Found a transcript of the voxophone for those who missed it:
There's a voxophone you can find from Comstock where he talks about being accused of "Having a few teepees in his family tree" by other soldiers (Slate also mentions something about him being called the "White Injun of Wounded Knee') which was one of the reasons he was so brutal during the massacre - he was trying to prove that he wasn't one of the "others".
Given that Comstock's big thing was that he never truly repented his actions but rather took for granted the forgiveness he'd be granted by God (the difference in Booker being he felt he could never be forgiven), is where Comstock's racism comes from - trying to prove that he's the Great White Messiah he claims to be and not of mixed race with a bit too much zeal.
EDIT: Found a transcript of the voxophone for those who missed it:
Zachary Hale Comstock said:
Really enjoyed the podcast and thank you for doing one. While I will save whatever disagreements I had you what you guys have said; I will say that I really wish you guys touched on a theme that resonated for me throughout the game was the cyclical nature of the game and how (as the title suggests) the game has been played on infinitely. The idea of the main objective of the game to be, as Elizabeth's song suggests, to break the cycle ("will the circle be unbroken?" a nice meta moment for me). I also really latched onto how certain things were labeled as variables and constants. The whole there is always "a man, a city, and a lighthouse" as well as that coin flip moment apparently being a constant. It was a nice bit of Sci-Fi that I really enjoyed. Coming to the realization that every time Booker died (w/o Elizabeth around) was a Booker from an alternate world doing exactly the same things this Booker did up to the point of his last fight was a great way to open my head up to the possibilities of what the game could do with the premise.
Also, it is my theory that the pendant was used as a way to mark to the Lutece's to help differentiate the Bookers and Elizabeths from one another. That or it really didn't matter at all, which I am fine with. Hell with the cyclical theme, I took away from the game you could say that the drowning didn't work at all (since you don't see Anna after the credits) and that Booker is just hearing things because of his guilt.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the game flaws and all and really want to start a 2nd playthrough.
Also, it is my theory that the pendant was used as a way to mark to the Lutece's to help differentiate the Bookers and Elizabeths from one another. That or it really didn't matter at all, which I am fine with. Hell with the cyclical theme, I took away from the game you could say that the drowning didn't work at all (since you don't see Anna after the credits) and that Booker is just hearing things because of his guilt.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the game flaws and all and really want to start a 2nd playthrough.
I just got to the bit in the podcast where you talk about the choices not affecting the ending, which I thought was actually really clever and one of my favourite things about the game.
'Moral' choice systems have been one of this generations biggest game mechanic fads, but there's also always been a bit of a backlash against them. They've been accused of being arbitrary, being a gimmick only used for cheap replay value, and also on some occasions having a very skewed view of morality itself. One particular game that, in light of all it's other praise, got particular stick for it's moral choice system... was the original Bioshock.
The attitude to choice that this game took seemed to me like a rather meta way of Irrational Games saying that they got it wrong in regards to choice in the first Bioshock, as well as a commentary on choice in games in general. No matter how much illusion of choice a game is giving you, you're still being guided by a game world that runs on a very strict set of rules. No matter what the game is, in order to progress in the game, you have to do things the game's way. Therefore choice in games, even when it does have narrative consequences, is inherently cosmetic. As such, I actually thought it was both very clever and appropriate how they used the issue of choice as a red herring, and made pretty much the whole point of the game about how, even when you think your fate is in your hands, you are being guided by forces that you can't control and don't entirely understand, and that your choice is only possible because the opposite choice was also made an equal number of times in a different world.
EDIT: I also found that a lot of the things Susan is calling out for not being explained properly were explained perfectly adequately in my experience. For example it's stated more than once (and not just in the voxophones) that Elizabeth was kept in the tower because they needed to siphon her ability to create and control tears, otherwise she could just escape no matter where they put her. Until they were able to control her personally and use her as a figurehead, they needed to restrict her abilities so she couldn't use them against them. Comstock's racism manifests because he interprets the baptism not as a chance to repent, but as a way to justify the things he did, which was helped along by the 'White Man's Burden' attitude that was still potent in a lot of fringe Christianity at that time.
'Moral' choice systems have been one of this generations biggest game mechanic fads, but there's also always been a bit of a backlash against them. They've been accused of being arbitrary, being a gimmick only used for cheap replay value, and also on some occasions having a very skewed view of morality itself. One particular game that, in light of all it's other praise, got particular stick for it's moral choice system... was the original Bioshock.
The attitude to choice that this game took seemed to me like a rather meta way of Irrational Games saying that they got it wrong in regards to choice in the first Bioshock, as well as a commentary on choice in games in general. No matter how much illusion of choice a game is giving you, you're still being guided by a game world that runs on a very strict set of rules. No matter what the game is, in order to progress in the game, you have to do things the game's way. Therefore choice in games, even when it does have narrative consequences, is inherently cosmetic. As such, I actually thought it was both very clever and appropriate how they used the issue of choice as a red herring, and made pretty much the whole point of the game about how, even when you think your fate is in your hands, you are being guided by forces that you can't control and don't entirely understand, and that your choice is only possible because the opposite choice was also made an equal number of times in a different world.
EDIT: I also found that a lot of the things Susan is calling out for not being explained properly were explained perfectly adequately in my experience. For example it's stated more than once (and not just in the voxophones) that Elizabeth was kept in the tower because they needed to siphon her ability to create and control tears, otherwise she could just escape no matter where they put her. Until they were able to control her personally and use her as a figurehead, they needed to restrict her abilities so she couldn't use them against them. Comstock's racism manifests because he interprets the baptism not as a chance to repent, but as a way to justify the things he did, which was helped along by the 'White Man's Burden' attitude that was still potent in a lot of fringe Christianity at that time.
The thing I love most about games is the world it creates. It can have flaws story wise or bugs in its mechanics but as long as they're not to extreme I can still enjoy myself.
Its one of the reasons I enjoyed Bioshock 2 but at the end of the day HAD to admit that it made no sense. By allowing the Big Daddy character Delta to CHOOSE weather or not to harvest the little sisters they killed the idea of what a Big Daddy is for me, and don't give me that shit about how he's a proto-type, thats such a fucking cop out! This sucks especially as I really became attached to both Eleanor, who I thought was more bad ass then Elizabeth, and Sinclair, whos death was damn depressing seeing how much he wanted out of Rapture.
I loved Bioshock Infinate but it definatly has its flaws in terms of continuity and a very watered down combat system. The world it creates is easily enough for me to recomend it though, that Beach Boys cover isn't going to listen to itself.
Its one of the reasons I enjoyed Bioshock 2 but at the end of the day HAD to admit that it made no sense. By allowing the Big Daddy character Delta to CHOOSE weather or not to harvest the little sisters they killed the idea of what a Big Daddy is for me, and don't give me that shit about how he's a proto-type, thats such a fucking cop out! This sucks especially as I really became attached to both Eleanor, who I thought was more bad ass then Elizabeth, and Sinclair, whos death was damn depressing seeing how much he wanted out of Rapture.
I loved Bioshock Infinate but it definatly has its flaws in terms of continuity and a very watered down combat system. The world it creates is easily enough for me to recomend it though, that Beach Boys cover isn't going to listen to itself.
I know the Podcat crew may have said why before, but why is it that you guys dislike BioShock 2 so much? Granted, I always like sequels better then the originals with just a few exceptions, but in Bio2 the gameplay was tighter, there were more weapons, more plasmids (which also had different ways to use them), a better hacking minigame, more choices with the Little Sisters, more choice period, more endings, more everything. I even liked the story better, because I found Sofia Lamb a much more 'visible' antagonist since Ryan never really spoke to Jack much. And of course, poor, poor Mark Meltzer. What is it about BioShock 2 that's so objectionable that you guys won't even speak it's name? Presumably because saying it would increase it's power?
What you say. I think it is "true".cynicalsaint1 said:
Well done.I have heard some people ask about what/where the vigors came from. That one voxophone from Fink's brother that tells us about how they have been looking through the tears to steal music was also used by Fink to spy on a "brilliant biologist". My guess is that they stole the ideas of the vigors from other people in other dimensions. Maybe even from the Rapture dimension.
That's my guess anyway.
Also, did anyone think naming Fink, fink was a bit too on the nose. I mean, come on. The lying, backstabbing, jackass of a businessman is named FINK. That's a bit much.
To Susan, Justin, Paul and anyone else who struggled with the Siren/Lady Comstock fights:
There is a piece of gear on Harmoney Lane, which is right before Comstock Victory Square(where the last Siren fight happens) that makes these fights a breeze even on Hard(haven't tried 1999 yet). It's a hat called "Storm" and it's inside a locked store that requires 3 lock picks to enter. Sorry I can't be more specific. I wasn't paying that close attention at the time, but I am sure there are FAQs that can help out anyone who can't find it.
Description: Killing with Devil's Kiss, Shock Jockey or Bucking Bronco causes effects to chain to nearby enemies.
She always resurrects enemies in clusters. I shock one with Shock Jockey and kill him with one of my firearms. Then the electricity spreads to all the others and I finish them off. The effect also renews itself everytime you kill one of the subsequent enemies. It works great for that last fight where you have to protect the generator too.
So hopefully that helps alot of people out.
There is a piece of gear on Harmoney Lane, which is right before Comstock Victory Square(where the last Siren fight happens) that makes these fights a breeze even on Hard(haven't tried 1999 yet). It's a hat called "Storm" and it's inside a locked store that requires 3 lock picks to enter. Sorry I can't be more specific. I wasn't paying that close attention at the time, but I am sure there are FAQs that can help out anyone who can't find it.
Description: Killing with Devil's Kiss, Shock Jockey or Bucking Bronco causes effects to chain to nearby enemies.
She always resurrects enemies in clusters. I shock one with Shock Jockey and kill him with one of my firearms. Then the electricity spreads to all the others and I finish them off. The effect also renews itself everytime you kill one of the subsequent enemies. It works great for that last fight where you have to protect the generator too.
So hopefully that helps alot of people out.
You guys also seemed to miss out on the stark reality that America was a deeply racist country during 1912. This was a country where even the social progressives were tinged with the racism of feeling a social obligation to use their superior whiteness to help those unfortunate enough to be born black or Chinese. The people who weren't so high minded were downright evil to everyone not like them.MisterShine said:
Now take a man who committed the next best thing to genocide, tell him that his sins have been washed away and he can take that to mean one of two things.
1. God has forgiven Booker/Comstock for his sins. He has a clean slate, and get a second chance at life. No murder this time son.
2. God understands, and it's cool Booker/Comstock! Wounded Knee was okay. You don't need to feel guilty about it. Go forth and tell the world! Maybe sponsor that zany scientist lady.
I think that #2 is the most likely explanation because Booker/Comstock is an intrinsically violent person and deep down can't successfully deny that aspect of himself. In the Booker universe(s) he decided to try and drown himself in booze and gambling to try and come to grips with the guilt he still felt. In the Comstock universe(s) he decided it was okay by god that he killed a bunch of people at wounded knee and therefore there was no need to feel any guilt at all. That lack of guilt in the Comstock Universe(s) led to the systemic racism of Columbia. This is compounded by the fact that Columbia removed itself from society at large years before, and has had YEARS to fester and feed upon its best and worst aspects. Meanwhile Booker, still holding onto his guilt, won't stone an inter racial couple.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Songbird was a third Booker/Comstock that Comstock snatched from another dimension and turned into a monster.
I think the gear is randomized, but yeah... this. When Lady Comstock started raising everyone I charged up a Devil's Kiss, dumped it in the middle of her little display and when all the enemies spawned there was a massive explosion that blew the living crap out of everyone. Then I just filled the Lady with lead.
I think the Racism came from just the time period and Americas views at that time (see Shamus's articles) and keeping Elizabeth locked up, I can only assume she would be easier to mold into the person he wants her to be if she doesn't get exposed to alternative view points (as a lot of her the history about her and Lady Comstock was kept out of her knowledge, so they were filtering her knowledge). You only have to see any Fundamentalists websites and the like and how they go on about how the internet is a gateway drug to "the Devil" (yet they don't catch the irony).
And one of my most favorites song inclusions was hearing 'Fortunate Son' through one of the tears and then hear a girl singing it when you go through the tears.
And one of my most favorites song inclusions was hearing 'Fortunate Son' through one of the tears and then hear a girl singing it when you go through the tears.
I just did some checking online and it seems that you might be right. The gear locations are fixed but what gear you get seems to be random. That kinda stinks in my opinion.MDSnowman said:
The reason for Comstock turning racist was never explicitly given anywhere in any of my playthroughs. So unless the few voxophones I am missing fill in those gaps I think that it's just going to be something the player has to figure out for themselves. And whenever you do this, it leaves room for players to have different interpretations.
The way I saw things is that maybe the baptism didn't immediately make him get over his past at Wounded Knee. He couldn't forget and didn't feel that baptism was enough to for him to be absolved. But if he could somehow view his past differently so that his actions were no longer a bad thing, maybe that would allow him to move on with his life. So, the racism that existed in Baptist religion at the time allowed him to change the outlook he had of his actions at Wounded Knee from being a bad thing to being a good thing.
i really enjoyed the game as a whole myself. however i do agree with susan a bit that somethings weren't fully explained but at the same time i think that can be said to play into you being booker and you not fully grasping all of this time and multiple realities stuff and just how random it could be, especially if there are infanite dimensions and elizabeth cant pick where to go untill her powers are unlocked.
that being said it does bring up my one problem with the ending, "smothering comstock in the crib" if theres supposed to be so many difrent worlds, what about the ones where comstock could be a good guy. they killed them off too basically by ending that choice. if elizabeth could see all the dimensions shouldnt she have been able to see them as well. that could potentially play into some dlc or a sequel.
Also, i would LOVE some dlc that takes place in rapture. like they land there but suddenly elizabeths powers are locked again and it turns out theres a syphon somehow in rapture
that being said it does bring up my one problem with the ending, "smothering comstock in the crib" if theres supposed to be so many difrent worlds, what about the ones where comstock could be a good guy. they killed them off too basically by ending that choice. if elizabeth could see all the dimensions shouldnt she have been able to see them as well. that could potentially play into some dlc or a sequel.
Also, i would LOVE some dlc that takes place in rapture. like they land there but suddenly elizabeths powers are locked again and it turns out theres a syphon somehow in rapture
Wait, Podcat?
Am I missing something here? Has it always been "Podcat" or is it just an adorable typo?
Am I missing something here? Has it always been "Podcat" or is it just an adorable typo?
DLC
what are they gonna do with it, if its not more Elizabeth and and the Lutece twins I doubt id be interested.
But Elizabeth either now has the power of gods or was never separated from Dewit, Dewit is dead or now happly living with Anna, and with the Elizabeth matter resolved the Luteces are now content to wander the multiverse
what are they gonna do with it, if its not more Elizabeth and and the Lutece twins I doubt id be interested.
But Elizabeth either now has the power of gods or was never separated from Dewit, Dewit is dead or now happly living with Anna, and with the Elizabeth matter resolved the Luteces are now content to wander the multiverse