ESRB to Valve: Mind Your Fingers - UPDATED
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Wow... I made that image before valve did... As seen on my thread from december! http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.80979#1068660
Okay, so it could be seen as the english version of the finger.
But wait a minute, I was under the impression that ESRB just RATED them, not that they got to muscle in on advertising...
I have been grossly misinformed...
Yeah I don't see any reason for it either...WTF ESRB?
But wait a minute, I was under the impression that ESRB just RATED them, not that they got to muscle in on advertising...
I have been grossly misinformed...
Yeah I don't see any reason for it either...WTF ESRB?
I certainly hope not, you'd probably get misinformed pricks trying to ban games with any violence because THEY URR MAKE POEPL MURDAR RITE?orannis62 said:
I'm not a fan of censorship in general, and I'm probably going to get quite a backlash here, but this is for poster advertising and the like, right?
So, considering this could go up where anyone could see, perhaps a chewed up, dismembered hand is innapropriate for a public display, and I've seen the two fingers gesture blurred out in TV shows too, its such a mild thing, really, like saying 'bugger' or 'arse' over here in the UK, and tbh, I haven't seen it really used since the days of the 'Young Ones'.
If it was internet banners and magazines only, that's fine, but if it's going up where, and I hate this part, as I'm usually against 'protecting the children', it will be seen by very young children, then it could cause nightmares and the like, and I don't think it's worth it if it can be changed to a non damaged hand for public advertising.
As for letting the Government take over from the ESRB and BBFC, we have our own Jack Thompson in the UK, Keith Vaz, and I don't need him getting a say in if I get to play GTA 5 in the UK.
Also, and I've done no research and could be completely wrong, isn't it the government deciding what videogames Australia gets to play and how censored they need to be? Lets learn from others, folks!
As far as I know, the only things getting stopped from release are Manhunt 2 and Punisher, which needed to be edited to lower the amount of voyeuristic sadism, which is actually fair enough imo, the game play is still the same, you can still splatter their skull across the nearest wall, even if you're not allowed to jam a screwdriver into each eye first.
I didn't think I'd say this, but I generally trust the BBFC to allow sex and violence thru when its justified and integral to plots, and does anyone think Manhunt 2's plot was ruined by a reduction of torture?
So, considering this could go up where anyone could see, perhaps a chewed up, dismembered hand is innapropriate for a public display, and I've seen the two fingers gesture blurred out in TV shows too, its such a mild thing, really, like saying 'bugger' or 'arse' over here in the UK, and tbh, I haven't seen it really used since the days of the 'Young Ones'.
If it was internet banners and magazines only, that's fine, but if it's going up where, and I hate this part, as I'm usually against 'protecting the children', it will be seen by very young children, then it could cause nightmares and the like, and I don't think it's worth it if it can be changed to a non damaged hand for public advertising.
As for letting the Government take over from the ESRB and BBFC, we have our own Jack Thompson in the UK, Keith Vaz, and I don't need him getting a say in if I get to play GTA 5 in the UK.
Also, and I've done no research and could be completely wrong, isn't it the government deciding what videogames Australia gets to play and how censored they need to be? Lets learn from others, folks!
As far as I know, the only things getting stopped from release are Manhunt 2 and Punisher, which needed to be edited to lower the amount of voyeuristic sadism, which is actually fair enough imo, the game play is still the same, you can still splatter their skull across the nearest wall, even if you're not allowed to jam a screwdriver into each eye first.
I didn't think I'd say this, but I generally trust the BBFC to allow sex and violence thru when its justified and integral to plots, and does anyone think Manhunt 2's plot was ruined by a reduction of torture?
I have to say, I always thought the missing thumb was too graphic for store shelves. I think Valve should have made the L4D cover more clean in the first place. A violent game is fine, because it can just be played by those old enough for it, but if the box art is violent, that could be seen by anyone who walks through a store selling it, including children. The whole thing just needs more thought put into it.
Although, as a whole the ESRB still makes WAY more sense than the OFLC in Australia. That organization is just a massive joke to me. Don't get me started.
Although, as a whole the ESRB still makes WAY more sense than the OFLC in Australia. That organization is just a massive joke to me. Don't get me started.
Hey, if you don't want ESRB, the Australian government would be happy to rate and control the sale of violent games for you.
Ninja'd by Obisean, but he's right.
From what I know being British, and what I remember of my history lessons at school, the meaning of the reversed double finger salute was used against the French by the English long Bow soldiers. Basically it means defiance, because if the french army caught a Long Bowman he would loose his two bowstring fingers (and they would probably kill them eventually as well).
So if anyone is offended by this it would be the French.
From what I know being British, and what I remember of my history lessons at school, the meaning of the reversed double finger salute was used against the French by the English long Bow soldiers. Basically it means defiance, because if the french army caught a Long Bowman he would loose his two bowstring fingers (and they would probably kill them eventually as well).
So if anyone is offended by this it would be the French.
This makes more sense than having them ripped off anyway. I've always liked it because it's a LEFT hand with 4 fingers that I'm guessing is DEAD and in the sequel, he still has his 4 fingers but only 2 of them are sticking up. And yes I did have fun taking advantage of the bold.
Khell_Sennet said:After reading this entire thread (yeah, all you lazy TLR'fags can suck it. If you're gonna post, read what others before you have said), I'm greatly amused that so much of this debate (whine-fest) has been focused on irrelevancies and solutions for things that aren't even the problem. As Maly said, the whole 2-finger-salute isn't even part of it.
What DOES concern me is how the ESRB has overstepped their boundaries as a civil monitoring authority. Yes, we call them a censorship board, but in truth they are just the harbinger of censorship, never actually censoring anything themselves. They present a rating to the game developers, and a list of complaints. The devs can address the complaints (or bribe the ESRB) and hope for a more lenient rating (which increases the potential consumer base), or stand up to the ESRB and get the rating they were first presented with. The ESRB does not censor, it extorts. It extorts developers and/or distributors to cave in to their demands, or face financial difficulties with their product. It's the developers who censor their own work, caving in to a civil board with no legal authority, but plenty of clout.
At the absolute extent of their authority, the ESRB's two strongest acts against a game developer are giving an "unrated" or an "Adult's Only" rating. Arguable which is more damaging to a company's product, either of those two ratings can mean many-to-most retailers will not carry the game, and in the more naziesque states, sale of AO/Unrated games to anyone under 18 can cause legal blowback. The threat of an AO is often enough to make even the most uncompromising developer concede to the ESRB's wishes.
Now what the Ethicless Society of Religious Bastards, or ESRB for short, has done to Valve, oversteps their authority. They cannot actually specify what the company can and cannot do. They can threaten the AO rating, they can petition stores not to sell the product, and if very persistent, they could even ask the government to intervene. But they themselves are not a legal authority, and have no grounds to tell Valve what they can and cannot do. Doubly so with promotional artwork, as it is not actually "the game", they have no jurisdiction whatsoever over the marketing of products.
That, boys and girls, is the troubling thing behind Malygris' original post. Not that the ESRB are dicks, which we knew already, but that they have stepped beyond their sphere of authority and nobody has slapped them back down. This is how censorship expands.
Fear not, for I have a solution too...
The ESRB is like a bully. Well, not like, they ARE a bunch of bullies. And nothing makes a bully back down like a bloody nose, broken jaw, and or a good curb-stomping.
[i]Valve[/i] needs to stand up to the ESRB, and they of all developers/distributors, are the single best entity in the world to do so. As much as I hate Steam, it is the solution to this problem. The only reason people go along with the ESRB ratings is because of retailers. Valve is its own distributor, and is trying to go more digital, less retail.
So... Make L4D2 Steam-Exclusive, or a very VERY limited retail run but still largely Steam. Take the AO or Unrated penalty, the customers don't give two flying shits what the ESRB icon says, and they can't do [b]anything[/b] about products sold via Steam. Keep the original artwork, don't actually provoke them or increase the questionable content, and release on YOUR terms, not theirs. It would shatter the illusion so many developers hold that the ESRB rules the industry, when a game that truly doesn't even merit a Mature rating goes AO, sells like hairspray at an Anime convention.
If Disney's "Toy Story" were rated "R", faith in the MPAA's rating system would lose all credibility in the public's eye, and the MPAA would die quite soon after. An AO rating on Left4Dead2 could do the same for gaming and the ESRB. So the question becomes...
[b][i]Does Valve have the balls to do this?[/i][/b][/QUOTE]
Damn... I bow my head to your post, your take on how to stop this problem and the MUCH better definition of the ESRB acronym.
Also, the 'two-finger' salute is irrelevant because most people in England use the middle finger now. I know I do.