EVE Online Players Flip a Lid Over Virtual Clothing

[Fusionxl]

This is a little difficult to explain to non-EVE players, but I will try to clarify as best I can.

EVE is different from, say, TF2, because nearly every item, ship and outpost ( player-built station ) is constructed by the players. The manufacturing process is often so complex there are entire flowcharts dedicated to the various "types". For instance:

1. http://eve-online.info/images/process.png
2. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Luggage/t3prod_flowchart.gif
3. http://www.eveonline.com/bitmaps/img/devblog/boosters.png

Every step and "phase" is nearly always managed by different people. Some mine ore and refine it into minerals, some run space infrastructure and harvest moon resources, some run reactions and turn moon resources into advanced materials, some live in wormhole systems and retrieve valuable components, some manufacture, some take those manufactured materials and manufacture something more advanced, some research and sell blueprints, some people take those different levels of materials and minerals and construct ships and modules, some transport all the abovementioned items between popular market systems, and finally, people buy the ships, equip them with modules and ammo, and lose everything in battle. Such a banal end to such a beautiful and intricate origin story.

Every person in that loooong chain of production is a part of the EVE circle of life. Low-level materials become glorious massive ships and powerful modules, and the entire market is governed by a delicate balance of supply and demand. People who harvest and build create a supply of ships and items. People who fight create a demand for ships and items.

Microtransactions bypass that circle of life.

They come into existence because CCP creates them. No one mined the minerals or moon resources. No one transported the materials. No one built anything. It just is there out of thin air. People who buy MT ships will not buy ships other people created, which lowers demand for those ships, which lowers demand for higher-level materials, which lowers demand for lower-level materials, which lowers demand for all sorts of reactions, which lowers demand for minerals and moon materials, which lowers demand for people to start the circle of life.

Microtransactions for ships and items kills the EVE market with every purchase.

The EVE community is outraged because CCP wants to fuck with the market people have built over the last 8 years. Sure, no one likes the 80 dollar monocles either, but that is a vanity item and does not interfere with the market. Ship skins, clothes, absolutely irrelevant to the circle of life, no materials are needed to create them and no materials are lost when they're destroyed. No player gains or loses anything.

Microtransactions for vanity items is completely OK. Microtransactions for ships and modules is not.

Oh, and sorry for the massive wall of text

 

[eezaak]

CCP has a tendency to talk big about what they will deliver. Then falls short. A good example is balancing/nerfing ships. WoW has almost monthy patchs and fixes to classes and player problems. EVE has not had a major rebalance of ships for over 1 year. As such, combat has gotten a little stale. Thus, when CCP starts talking about the LATEST AWESOME release players become bitter and start raging due to previous disapointments.

I play EVE and have 4 accounts and am very disheartened by what I've seen so far. I'll wait to see how this plays out before spitting the dummy and rage quitting lol.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Some hats go for $20, $30, as well as weapons, I believe. It's still ridiculous, no matter how you twist it, though compared to this EVE stuff it is better. Though, not a better we should like...

The concept is more ridiculous than the practice in this case, I think. As much as I hate the idea that hats are going for $30, it dawns on me regardless than only those so inclined to look a little goofier will be buying it. Or, obsessives. Either which way, since there are very few shop exclusive items, I'm not so fussed about TF2's store. The people who wish to spend money there can, and they leave me alone.

With this EVE thing, I think it's the idea that player advantage can be bought, as many people seem to be saying they're nonplussed but not fussed about the $80 monocle... thing. Same with the TF2 store - and TF2 is barely perpetual, it's a round-based multiplayer shooter, so any advantage is usually circumstantial.

 

[Ferrious]

Spoiler: tl:dr, This changes nothing, you already CAN buy game advantages in EVE.

Given that nothing "binds" in EVE, the only way they could change the current system would be if you could buy either:

A) Faction standing.
B) Skillpoints.

You can ALREADY buy the in-game currency, legally, with real-world cash. You've been able to for AGES. As nothing binds, that means you can buy pretty much anything you want with real-world cash. This "virtual boutique" has only highlighted that microtransactions create a lot more stink than they really should.

Just to clarify: You can ALREADY purchase in-game advantages like ships, weapons, implants, etc with real-world cash. There is no "If they let me buy game-changing...", it already happened.

The only reason it isn't causing trouble is that most players are veterans who have the skillpoints to be the best at what they want to do, so they don't care that noobs can buy the Super-Carrier-Of-Death? because they know they'll still be more powerful. Whole fleets that have been built on real-world cash have been destroyed, making CCP (and the veterans who sold the ships) very happy.

If you could buy skillpoints in EVE, then this would cause an outrage the like of which even EVE has never seen.

Edit: Point made up higher about microtransactions essentially under-cutting the economy of EVE was something I hadn't fully considered. I'd have to think long and hard on how this would change things in ways PLEX do not. I suspect that the impact would be minimal - who is going to pay CCP prices every time their ship blows up? Combined with the natural price floor of players who are not willing to pay CCP at all, I think that impact would be fairly small.

 

[Ferrious]

You know, even more f***ed up then all of these players whining about Microtransactions and being able to purchase in-game items is the fact that all of them neglect to recall the fact that CCP has freely released expansions to their game, without any charge to their customers.

Only their "Expansions" are roughly on level with "Content Patches" from other developers, and true paid-for Expansions truly outstrip what CCP provide. This combined with a higher-than-average monthly fee points out that these "free expansions" are neither truly free, nor truly Expansions (in the traditionally accepted MMO sense).

 

[Tax_Document]

This isnt the issue at all John.

An internal newsletter was leaked discussing not only vanity items for sale, but new ships, ammo etc etc. Basically GAME CHANGIN stuff.

No one cares about the price of a monacle no one will buy, thi isnt WoW where people buy ponies.

No, EVE you can buy t-shirts for twice the price.

Value!!!!

 

[Slangeveld]

I don't really give a rats ass about the microstore*, but the whole update, ccp's way of handling the anger and several other factors have made me extremely sad over the past few weeks. that his whole captain's quarters façade/gimmick isn't optional makes it all the worse.


Edit: * As it is now.

This business about game changing stuff being sold for real life money is already in the game so not sure why this would only now grab so much rage.

Its more the fact that items for AUR are created out of nothing, while at least with plex the ISK and ships came from somewere. EvE has a few strenghts, and the player drivin market is one core aspect, players just dont what to see it chucked out the window.

This is true, hadn't thought of it that way. D: Hoping CCP won't do this.

 

[Xanthious]

I'm of multiple minds about this first off and most importantly I feel that microtransactions beyond vanity items effectively ruins a game. MMOs are delicate things and introducing the ability to purchase items or privileges that actually have an in game impact for real money is pretty much the quickest way shit all over the spirit of your game. This is the primary reason I despise Free to Play MMOs or games like Farmville. Your failure or success is ultimately directly affected by your willingness to pay or lack thereof. It no longer takes wits or strategy to win, just a healthy amount of disposable income.

Secondly, I feel that a game like EVE Online would be close to the top in terms of games that would absolutely be shattered by microtransactions that give in game advantages. EVE is primarily a game based around a massive economy. It take a great deal of time and dedication to succeed and introducing microtransactions like ships, ammunition, etc would completely devalue the time and hard work invested by many dedicated players. If this goes through I expect it will be to EVE what the "Combat Upgrade" patch was to Star Wars Galaxies. It will cause people to leave in bulk and damage CCP's built up goodwill and trust to a point that it will be unable to fully recover.

Finally, despite how totally and irrefutably wrong this would be there is still something about a game based around greed and screwing over your fellow player introducing something so blatantly designed to fleece their playerbase that strikes me as somewhat comically ironic.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Oh bullshit, the Team Fortress 2 Mann Co. store has had prices like that for cosmetic items, and regular weaponry for months, and yet no news posts or calling outs on that? Pshaw, people, set your priorities straight!

But whatever, that still is pretty ridiculous for a monocle or whatever. There's a limit to microtransactions that developers are testing, though I'm pretty sure $100 for a new red-er glove croses that boundary twice.

You're forgetting that TF2 doesn't have an extensive, almost completely player-run economy. These 2 games just cannot be compared at all on this front.

From what I've been explained [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538167], the worries are not about these cosmetic items, it's about what they want to do with ships, actual ingame items you can use. You see, pretty much everything that you buy in EVE is player made. If you buy a ship then someone made money of gathering the materials, producing the ship, developing the blueprints, etc etc.

All the things you buy aren't just poofed into existence out of thin air, but that will happen if CCP is going to sell ready-made ships for real money, especially if they're going to be superior ships. Miners, industrialists and businessmen will be massively undercut. For example, think what'll happen with mineral prices when the best ships are bought with real money, ships that don't need to be manufactured.

That's what players are worrying about, sure the prices of these items are outrageous, but that's not where the huge rage comes from. The rage comes from CCP wanting to, basically, unfairly compete with it's own subscribers and undermine it's own game's economy.

And I just joined this game... *sigh*

 

[theultimateend]

Once again EVEs out of game drama generates amusement & excitement its actual gameplay never can

I wanted to like it.

Got up to owning a hulk.

But frankly, the gameplay is better suited for the regular human as a single player.

Otherwise its just tedious because everyone around you is an extreme pvp pirate bandit murder fiend.

 

[Jumplion]

Oh bullshit, the Team Fortress 2 Mann Co. store has had prices like that for cosmetic items, and regular weaponry for months, and yet no news posts or calling outs on that? Pshaw, people, set your priorities straight!

But whatever, that still is pretty ridiculous for a monocle or whatever. There's a limit to microtransactions that developers are testing, though I'm pretty sure $100 for a new red-er glove croses that boundary twice.

You're forgetting that TF2 doesn't have an extensive, almost completely player-run economy. These 2 games just cannot be compared at all on this front.

From what I've been explained [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1538167], the worries are not about these cosmetic items, it's about what they want to do with ships, actual ingame items you can use. You see, pretty much everything that you buy in EVE is player made. If you buy a ship then someone made money of gathering the materials, producing the ship, developing the blueprints, etc etc.

All the things you buy aren't just poofed into existence out of thin air, but that will happen if CCP is going to sell ready-made ships for real money, especially if they're going to be superior ships. Miners, industrialists and businessmen will be massively undercut. For example, think what'll happen with mineral prices when the best ships are bought with real money, ships that don't need to be manufactured.

That's what players are worrying about, sure the prices of these items are outrageous, but that's not where the huge rage comes from. The rage comes from CCP wanting to, basically, unfairly compete with it's own subscribers and undermine it's own game's economy.

And I just joined this game... *sigh*

Yes yes yes, I get it, it's been explained how the two situations are different a few times now. I don't mind the TF2 store as much as I may show, but it is still a bit ridiculous.

 

[uc.asc]

For serious though, the monocle thing may be ridiculous but it's not the reason for the protests. We're angry because:

a) OVER 9000 (maybe even literally) players have asked if CCP will be introducing non-vanity items. CCP has not replied, so we have high confidence that they intend to do just that. We need for this to not happen, hence protests.
b) The complete and utter contempt that CCP, and in particular CEO Himlar, have for eve players, as shown in internal correspondence which has been made public, and the incredibly insulting way that this scandal has been dealt with.

Items c through z are all the other instances of CCP shitting on us over the last oh, say, 18 months.

 

[MrGalactus]

Why would the developer entitle the memo "Greed is Good" unless they want to be seen as some sort of dark corporate overlord like Ultor or something?

 

[Cowabungaa]

Yes yes yes, I get it, it's been explained how the two situations are different a few times now. I don't mind the TF2 store as much as I may show, but it is still a bit ridiculous.

Well, at least that store isn't game breaking. But yes some of the item prices are just silly, and the crate system is just pure evil, but overal it works.

 

[MajorDolphin]

So many people missed the point of this and have no idea why the fans are actually angry. I have to admit, it is Escapists fault this time. The article focuses in on the silly cosmetic items and not on the real issue..... game changing items for sale for real money which creates an imbalance between the players and rewards those who are willing to BUY their way through the game.

Lets apply that to FPS and TPS games. Imagine if you could buy a one hit one kill handgun for 20 bucks. How about a heat seeking rocket launcher for CoD? It'll only cost you 100 bucks. Ooh! For a grand you can buy a weapon that instantly kills the other team!

If you can't imagine why people are angry about this then you're likely the same type of person they want to milk for money.

EVE will be nearly dead within a year of they move forward with this shady business practice.

 

[JIst00]

Yes you can already buy an advatange in that you can buy ISK and with ISK whatever, this is as opposed to earning i in game.

Say you buy 2bil ISK, buy a big nasty ship, thats cool, because I can still compete by going out and making the ISK myself and buying the same thing.

What CCp seem to be doing is selling ships ammo in the NEX that will only be availiable in the NEX


It is truely disheartening how may people fail to grasp that.

 

[Comando96]

Well I do economics and thought I don't play EVE online at all... I can see this as being a bit of a fucking disaster.

As currency exchange and currency values go as there is a vast increase of demand for these cloths, and lots of money for people to flog around... means that the value of other currencies are deflated...

Anyone want that translating... its bad.

Basically the economy stops building ships and creating new wealth, or Aggregate Demand goes down (bad). In technical terms... EVE online may go through an in-game recession xD

Equally... there may be fewer players if they can't get "free" subscription, but I doubt there would be many if any.

Meh...

 

[SyphonX]

The highly-controversial newsletter was a tongue-in-cheek exploratory business strategy. They intentionally exaggerated ideas, and went to the boundaries simply to discuss the matters. All companies do this, and you'd be surprised how unreal, cold and downright evil some of it is.

It doesn't represent their plans for the future, necessarily, and CCP has already stated this as such.

[http://img28.imageshack.us/i/unlediz.jpg/]​

Does this look like a serious, professional business outline to you? Or does it look like a tongue-in-cheek business idea?

 

[Frank Inktomi]

Has anyone here read the entire leaked newsletter. If not read the part on page 11 when they use the chlorine in pools to sell goggles analogy. They are planning to soak players for as much as they can by "monetizing social acceptance in online games."

Every time I read that it makes me feel ill.

 

[direkiller]

EVE Online Players Flip a Lid Over Virtual Clothing

Imagine if Oblivion's horse armor had been sold - in space - for more than the price of a real-life horse.

EVE Online's latest free expansion, Incarna, hit PCs everywhere earlier this week boasting a slew of new features and improvements for the space-empire MMO. One other thing it added was the "Captain's Quarters," a prelude to the long-awaited "Walking in Stations" feature that would allow players to get out of their spaceships and actually see their avatar pilots (and those of others) in the proverbial flesh. The Captain's Quarters allowed players to see their characters and customize their appearance, but it was a solitary feature - only you can see your character.

Unfortunately, alongside the Captain's Quarters came something that has the EVE playerbase in an uproar: Developer CCP added a "microtransaction" shop, where players could buy vanity items to kit out their characters' appearances. This isn't a bad thing - almost every MMO does it these days - but these transactions aren't so "micro" after all.

There's an excellent post on RockPaperShotgun [http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/22/eek-eves-clothing-and-cash-crisis/] summing up how the complex economy of EVE Online has been affected by these items, but here's the skinny: An in-game shirt in EVE Online can go for $25 real-world dollars. That's more than it costs for an actual real-life shirt!

The real offender, though, is the "Looking Glass Ocular Implant," seen here. It's essentially a monocle, and it will set you back $70-80 dollars in real life. That's several months worth of EVE Online subscriptions, or a brand new game on its own.

These prices will eventually stabilize, of course, but for the moment EVE players seem perfectly in the right to be a bit heated about the issue. While paying $25 for a purely cosmetic in-game item is hardly unheard of [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110528-WoW-Adds-New-Purchasable-Mount-Winged-Guardian], it's worth noting that nobody else but the player can see these items (yet). There's no virtual prestige in it, rendering it the sci-fi equivalent of Oblivion's widely-mocked horse armor - for fourteen times the price.

Update: Things are rapidly going downhill for CCP. A leaked internal bulletin [http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/22/greed-is-good-purportedly-leaked-internal-bulletin-shows-ccps-refreshing-new-direction/] titled "Greed is Good" indicates that the developer will be extending its microtransactions to less-than-cosmetic items like spaceships and weaponry - things which would provide a tangible in-game advantage.

An apology from EVE community manager Pann indicated that CCP was aware of the outrage [http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/24/eve-online-dev-responds-to-incarna-anger/], but that doesn't seem to have calmed players any.

(RPS [http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/22/eek-eves-clothing-and-cash-crisis/], thanks for the tip BonsaiK!)

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There is also a leaked email from the CEO of CCP staiting
"Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change."

this along with the greed is good and a dev blog titled "Fearless" now have about 2000+accounts cancelled and active riots in the 2 major trade hubs