EVO 2020 is cancelled, and not because of COVID.

[Cicada 5]

No man, DoA is a real fighting game. It's completely unfair to treat it like it's something on the level of Senran Kagura. You may not have delved into the mechanics of the game but they've always been solid and serious, not an excuse to just have provocative poses.

I'm not knocking the mechanics. But you and I both know that those are not what the developers have used to market that series. Other fighting games have fanservice too but the really successful ones don't use it as a major focus the way DOA does.

The complaints are invalid because they make it seem as though the DoA gameplay experience is notably different than that of other 3D fighting games, because it also has a gallery mode and a spinoff beach voleyball game. Tekken 3 had a beach voleyball minigame too, people didn't judge it based on that.

Did Tekken 3's volley ball minigame (and note a minigame is different from an entire spin off series) have stuff like this?

It basically comes off as either very deeply ignorant about what matters in a fighting game or hypocritical to the max to single it out.

Well the DOA fandom sure didn't present themselves as knowing what matters in a fighting game when they lost their minds over announcements of less fanservice in DOA 6.

 

[Dreiko]

I'm not knocking the mechanics. But you and I both know that those are not what the developers have used to market that series. Other fighting games have fanservice too but the really successful ones don't use it as a major focus the way DOA does.



Did Tekken 3's volley ball minigame (and note a minigame is different from an entire spin off series) have stuff like this?





Well the DOA fandom sure didn't present themselves as knowing what matters in a fighting game when they lost their minds over announcements of less fanservice in DOA 6.

That's not DoA6 that you're linking, that's a spinoff thing, people are talking about the core series in the context we're discussing in the fgc here, the other spinoffs aren't even fighting games, they just use the same world/chars, kinda like how Ninja Gaiden also does that without being a fighting game either.

SonicFox is the biggest catch 22 in fighting games. There is this idea that as long as your good it does not matter. This is true but with SonicFox he shows who actually means it and those who use it as a deflection to not get called out for being ass clown people different from them.

SonicFox can obnoxious but I mostly find it midly amusing obnoxious and he annoys people that annoy me so its a win win.

I don't know anyone who doesn't acknowledge that dude's a prodigy, nobody who is taken serious anyhow.

Also apparently he's also a they-person on top of being a gay furry too. He keeps adding passive traits to his build as he goes haha. Now, I dunno how you can be both nonbinary and gay at the same time, since gay means you have attraction to the same sex. Does that mean you only like other nonbinary people? XD

 

[McElroy]

Also apparently he's also a they-person on top of being a gay furry too. He keeps adding passive traits to his build as he goes haha. Now, I dunno how you can be both nonbinary and gay at the same time, since gay means you have attraction to the same sex. Does that mean you only like other nonbinary people? XD

Like furries in general he most likely dropped out of psychological development as a kid.

Anyway, I only checked out the Nairo stuff because that specific accusation has some funky shit in there.

 

[Cicada 5]

That's not DoA6 that you're linking, that's a spinoff thing, people are talking about the core series in the context we're discussing in the fgc here, the other spinoffs aren't even fighting games, they just use the same world/chars, kinda like how Ninja Gaiden also does that without being a fighting game either.

I'm aware it's a spin off. I only brought it up because you did. But this is what the DOA franchise as a whole is known for. The fighting games have the bouncing breasts and skimpy outfits same as the volley ball games. This is the image that Dead or Alive has cultivated for itself and it's the image fans have been fighting to keep in spite of the harm it has done to the brand. Every time they try to tone down the fanservice the fans revolt and they end up relenting and putting it back.

 

[Dreiko]

I'm aware it's a spin off. I only brought it up because you did. But this is what the DOA franchise as a whole is known for. The fighting games have the bouncing breasts and skimpy outfits same as the volley ball games. This is the image that Dead or Alive has cultivated for itself and it's the image fans have been fighting to keep in spite of the harm it has done to the brand. Every time they try to tone down the fanservice the fans revolt and they end up relenting and putting it back.

No that's just the marketing that is instantly replaced by mechanics once you actually play the game. You literally have to not have tried playing the game and only seen footage of it to have that opinion.

I didn't mention spinoffs. I mentioned the Tekken 3 volleyball minigame that was actually a part of tekken 3 and not a spinoff.

I'm not interested in discussing the public relations aspect of the game here, I'm discussing the actual experience competitive fighting game players of the game get out of it. You're working from some imaginary place of assuming what people play the game for based on what it's marketed as, not realizing that the people who actively support its scenes and are participating in the community that plays it competitively is a small subsection of the general number people who just simply purchase the game. This is the context we're working within at the moment. It's irrelevant what people who don't play fighting games and just wanna play anime dressup want out of their games when talking about the FGC and to supplant the competitive community's experience with that is insane.

 

[Jarrito3002]

I'm aware it's a spin off. I only brought it up because you did. But this is what the DOA franchise as a whole is known for. The fighting games have the bouncing breasts and skimpy outfits same as the volley ball games. This is the image that Dead or Alive has cultivated for itself and it's the image fans have been fighting to keep in spite of the harm it has done to the brand. Every time they try to tone down the fanservice the fans revolt and they end up relenting and putting it back.

Yeah DoA shot it own self it the foot this is true. Like some the best countering system in fighting games has fallen by the way side for try smexy times. Also that DLC debacle https://store.steampowered.com/dlc/838380/DEAD_OR_ALIVE_6/ where they just got obsessive. If this doesn't where the mind frame is and anyone who left got tired of this nonsense and dipped and I don't blame them.

I don't know anyone who doesn't acknowledge that dude's a prodigy, nobody who is taken serious anyhow.

Also apparently he's also a they-person on top of being a gay furry too. He keeps adding passive traits to his build as he goes haha. Now, I dunno how you can be both nonbinary and gay at the same time, since gay means you have attraction to the same sex. Does that mean you only like other nonbinary people? XD

I know SonicFox is a they. Makes sense they don't subsribe to a gender but are attracted to the male sex. Its the internet you can always just ask somebody about it themselves.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah DoA shot it own self it the foot this is true. Like some the best countering system in fighting games has fallen by the way side for try smexy times. Also that DLC debacle https://store.steampowered.com/dlc/838380/DEAD_OR_ALIVE_6/ where they just got obsessive. If this doesn't where the mind frame is and anyone who left got tired of this nonsense and dipped and I don't blame them.

DOA6 was really just a worse version of 5. Like I said before in a different thread. KT/Team Ninja have no idea what they're doing anymore when it comes to all things Ninja Gaiden or DOA.

Well the DOA fandom sure didn't present themselves as knowing what matters in a fighting game when they lost their minds over announcements of less fanservice in DOA 6.

They freaked out over nothings. There was only slightly less fan-service, but still a lot at the end of the day. Especially when it came to the DLC.

 

[Aiddon]

Isn't the fighting game community more open then most gaming communities? I mean their best player is a gay black furry who plays in full fursuit.

That's relatively recent. The fighting game community was infamous for misogyny, homophobia, racism, etc for years. SonicFox has made it very clear in the past that he wanted to bring visibility and accountability to that kind of behavior because it had been stewing for so long. The reason strides had been made to getting rid of all that was due to how EVO blew up into a huge videogame event. When money and sponsorships start piling up, people tend to want to create a better environment, if only for the sake of PR.

 

[Gordon_4]

DOA6 was really just a worse version of 5. Like I said before in a different thread. KT/Team Ninja have no idea what they're doing anymore when it comes to all things Ninja Gaiden or DOA.



They freaked out over nothings. There was only slightly less fan-service, but still a lot at the end of the day. Especially when it came to the DLC.

Koei Tecmo's DLC method is nickle and dime par excellence. On Steam there are close to 500 pieces of DLC you can buy, and as far as I can see they're all costumes (or collections there of) and buying all of it adds up to roughly $1200AUD. Man, the bouncing tits aren't the most shameless thing about Dead or Alive any more.

 

[BrawlMan]

That's relatively recent. The fighting game community was infamous for misogyny, homophobia, racism, etc for years. SonicFox has made it very clear in the past that he wanted to bring visibility and accountability to that kind of behavior because it had been stewing for so long. The reason strides had been made to getting rid of all that was due to how EVO blew up into a huge videogame event. When money and sponsorships start piling up, people tend to want to create a better environment, if only for the sake of PR.

I remember the Killer Instinct tournament during the summer of 2016. There were plenty of women competiting; still more guys of course, but it was not just white women. Plenty of black, latino, and asian, and a lot of them got pretty far in the bracket. At least 3 or 4 of them got in to the top 10. Everyone treated each other no differently, acted appropriate, gave each other proper kindness and respect. As it should be. I thought I'd just share good story of positive and respectful human behavior. The FGC still has a long way to go though.

Koei Tecmo's DLC method is nickle and dime par excellence. On Steam there are close to 500 pieces of DLC you can buy, and as far as I can see they're all costumes (or collections there of) and buying all of it adds up to roughly $1200AUD. Man, the bouncing tits aren't the most shameless thing about Dead or Alive any more.

The DOA5 DLC totaled to slightly more, even if you got the Last Round/Complete Edition on PS4/XONE.

 

[Dreiko]

I know SonicFox is a they. Makes sense they don't subsribe to a gender but are attracted to the male sex. Its the internet you can always just ask somebody about it themselves.

It's not gay to be into men though, straight women are into men too, they're not gay. If you say someone who is into dudes is gay then it'd have to mean being whatever they are is the same gender as being a dude.

Basically, it's just kinda nonsensical to have all those labels at the same time. You gotta give one of em up. Or be exclusively into other nonbinary people.

I remember the Killer Instinct tournament during the summer of 2016. There were plenty of women competiting; still more guys of course, but it was not just white women. Plenty of black, latino, and asian, and a lot of them got pretty far in the bracket. At least 3 or 4 of them got in to the top 10. Everyone treated each other no differently, acted appropriate, gave each other proper kindness and respect. As it should be. I thought I'd just share good story of positive and respectful human behavior. The FGC still has a long way to go though.

In my experience there's barely any white girls (who weren't born a dude anyhow) who play cometitively so I dunno why the expectation is that they'd be the mainstay. It's literally more likely that a white girl at an event is someone's girlfriend there to hang out than an actual competitor. Now, Asian girls, they're by far the most numerous among their gender in the actual event itself.

 

[BrawlMan]

In my experience there's barely any white girls (who weren't born a dude anyhow) who play cometitively so I dunno why the expectation is that they'd be the mainstay.

I never said or expected them to be main stays, just pointing it out. If they became mainstays, you would see no complaints from me.

It's literally more likely that a white girl at an event is someone's girlfriend there to hang out than an actual competitor.

They were actually competing. Saw it with my own eyes on Twitch. Spent nearly the whole day watching the event. They may or may have not known someon, but I do not care. The point is everyone was treating each other with respect. That's the main point I am making.

 

[BrawlMan]

 

[Gordon_4]

The DOA5 DLC totaled to slightly more, even if you got the Last Round/Complete Edition on PS4/XONE.

They are the Piss-Taker General aren't they? Fucking EA wish they can be so bold.

 

[BrawlMan]

They are the Piss-Taker General aren't they? Fucking EA wish they can be so bold.

They're obsession with DLC can actually can be traced back all the way to Ninja Gaiden (Black) and Ninja Gaiden II. With Ninja Gaiden it was just a few challenge missions. With II, it was mission pack/survival DLC, and alternate costumes. The upgraded versions of each game had their own DLC too. NG 3 (Vanilla) is where it got so bad that the weapons became DLC, but ended up being free because of the backlash. I know you are well aware of Dynasty Warriors and spin-off with all of their dlc shit. Koei-Tecmo/Team Ninja is the worst when it comes to this stuff.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Pervy sirs are frigging everywhere. What needs be done is a thorough cleansing perv control, perhaps using pervicide if regulations allow. This isn't a secret to anyone on the receiving end of the pervs. But nice to see responsibility being taken, step by painfully glacial step at a time.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Ok, let me be morbid again.

Even though fighting games are no where near Overwatch, Mobas, and Fortnite, the fighting game tourney was enough to keep Fighting games as a viable genre to produce for. Evo single handedly got people grinding and made it what it is today.

Fighting Game Companies can not go through another dark age. Will this be enough to force developers to improve game connectivity? The more that comes out, the more that you have to assume the younger members will be forbidden to come to tournaments. That will leave it to old folks like some of us who have jobs and families that need to eat right now.

To remain viable, I can only see connectivity improving to the level that it is virtually indistinguishable from face-to-face set play so that online tournaments can be a thing. Without that... Yeah, I can see this being the demise of fighting games.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yeah I was more tongue-in-cheek with that particular remark. It's more of something that you do as part of shit talking, you build someone up so you have this sense of accomplishment when you beat them or you can brag to your low rank friends that you know this dude who is super good. Harmless stuff like that.

It should really never get to the toxic or pathological level we're seeing here. I mean, it's just WEIRD if you are in that place and are a normal person. I've won tourneys weekly for like a year and a half straight and if I didn't get someone try to criticize something from my play at least a couple times each day it'd feel weird. Living in some environment where everyone is a sycophant isn't really even the real community at all at this point.

I wonder if this all doesn't stem from everyone playing online games all the time where the "trash talk" is even worse, then they suddenly have to go and do it in person with other people and they don't have those social guidelines imprinted into how they act with other people so they just... yeah. I'm just wondering if this is why it can get so much more acidic than physical sports (Though admittedly the trade off might be actual physical violence in cases like Hockey).

 

[Dreiko]

I wonder if this all doesn't stem from everyone playing online games all the time where the "trash talk" is even worse, then they suddenly have to go and do it in person with other people and they don't have those social guidelines imprinted into how they act with other people so they just... yeah. I'm just wondering if this is why it can get so much more acidic than physical sports (Though admittedly the trade off might be actual physical violence in cases like Hockey).

It's way more civil locally because unlike with netplay where a lot of the time it's strangers you see the same people each week/month so it's hard to be genuinely mean-spirited. 95% of the time it's just playful trash talk that just makes the game fun. If someone legit was being like a random netplay shouter he'd be instantly kicked off any venue worth anything.

Though that being said, I'm the kind of player who lets the game do the talking so I don't really care for it personally. Some people try to make it sound like a strategy, like you're distracting your foe or provoking them so they'll make a mistake, but that's still a really inefficient way of doing that. I can piss you off just based on how I play against you way better than by calling you bad XD. (had people legit slam their arcade stick and run off right after the match a bunch of times, and then a bunch of approving nods from the audience lmao)

So yeah, imo trash talk is completely harmless, but also kind of a waste of time unless you're just playing for fun and not competitively. In that case, it's more like a performance so sure, go for it I guess lol.

Ok, let me be morbid again.

Even though fighting games are no where near Overwatch, Mobas, and Fortnite, the fighting game tourney was enough to keep Fighting games as a viable genre to produce for. Evo single handedly got people grinding and made it what it is today.

Fighting Game Companies can not go through another dark age. Will this be enough to force developers to improve game connectivity? The more that comes out, the more that you have to assume the younger members will be forbidden to come to tournaments. That will leave it to old folks like some of us who have jobs and families that need to eat right now.

To remain viable, I can only see connectivity improving to the level that it is virtually indistinguishable from face-to-face set play so that online tournaments can be a thing. Without that... Yeah, I can see this being the demise of fighting games.

Most tourneys are way out of the price range of people who have parents dictating their lives. You usually gotta book plane tickets and hotels and stuff if you're not a member of the lucky minority that lives in NY or Cali. Also a lot more of these things are being turned into online fares anyhow, now doubly so with the couf in effect. So no, there's no issue with that aspect.

If anything, I see this as helping promote the scene because even though it's bad publicity it's still publicity and fighting games are notoriously under-advertised.