Evolve Community Mgr Fired After Tweet on Donald Sterling - Update

Tradjus

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Apr 25, 2011
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I'm perfectly happy with this guy getting fired, know why?
Not because I just disagree with his point, but also because he was doing a very bad job.
True, this was his personal twitter feed and he wasn't representing the company as he stated that opinion, but unfortunately he is the community support manager, a public facing PR position, and he created controversy. Excuse me if I'm incorrect, but a perhaps unspoken obligation of a PR type position is endeavoring not to create controversy, isn't that correct?
 

Xan Krieger

Completely insane
Feb 11, 2009
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Just another story that teaches if you have a job don't express an opinion ever, you'll piss off someone somewhere and you'll get fired for it.
 

Deathfish15

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Nov 7, 2006
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jetriot said:
The people that boycott people for having opinions different than their own are no better McCarthy era witch hunters in my book. I understand boycotting a Nazi, I even understand boycotting Sterlin... but boycotting a company because an employee had an opinion about a racist??!?! Its anti-democratic, pro-fascist behavior to want to destroy people that disagree with you at such a mundane level.

The same can be said for the Mozilla CEO issue. A man fired because he donated to a cause that at the time was supported by a majority of California and was supported by President Obama himself. I hope the people that said they were going to boycott this game realize that their inner fascist won yet again this day... Perhaps someday they can crush all descent to their narrow world view. Although maybe in the future instead of just blacklisting people we disagree with we can just get it over with and start burning them alive like actual fascists would. That would be the fastest route to cleansing the world of unholy world views after all.

Whoa, slow down there fella. It's perfectly reasonable -and very much Capitalistic- for consumers to boycotte a product because they disagree with the company's views or the views of major figures within their company.

The guy's 'personal' Twitter page looks like this on the left:
https://twitter.com/JD_2020



Josh OlinVerified account
@JD_2020

Present: @TurtleRock & @EvolveGame.
Past: Community Programs Designer
@RiotGames, Community Manager
@Treyarch. All my tweets are belong to
me.




See that? He's advertising that he represents that particular company AND their product from his own page. Which stands to reason that anything he mentions there is now the shared opinion of the company/products he represents.
{Hyperbolic example inc:}
That's like walking into a different McDonald's than the one you work at, but in full McDonald's uniform and shouting "I support racists and their 1st Amendment rights!". Do you not see the kind of PR nightmare it would be for that store and the company as a whole? Ya.....you'd get canned, even if you were doing this on your own personal free time... {/end hyperbolic example.}






As for the Firefox thing, it was a bit more than just "Free Speech". To make the statement "I don't support gay marriage" is not the same thing as paying $1,000 to actively try to BAN it from your state. He was appointed the head honcho of a major corporation and has made very public, open opinions expression a hate towards specific groups of people. Not even at all what Obama supported -in fact being the exact opposite- as Obama openly supported gay rights during his 2007 campaign in mentioning that homosexual couples should be given the same rights as heterosexual couples. He even promised to and has sense repealed the Don't Ask Don't Tell military policy against homosexuals. Here's source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policy_of_Barack_Obama#LGBT_issues and another 30sec of Googling could find way more source for that. Don't go spouting lies just because you feel that racists, bigots, and ignorant folks shouldn't be punished for their backwards, redneck views in this day and age.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Apr 28, 2010
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Sorry man, but you had to know this was coming. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want and expect no consequences from anyone.
And if you are a public figure, or hired to be a public figure, then you need to understand that, even if you're not saying it on behalf of the company, people are still going to attribute your words to the company. It might not be fair, but that's the way the world works, especially in this day and age. Just like you don't post certain things on Facebook.
 

ecoho

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Jun 16, 2010
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while I do not support his comments the guy should be aloud to say what he wants in his own home. I mean from what I understand he didn't publicly support racism he did so in his home, and while it may be wrong of him to speak in such a way its his right to do so in his own home. Honestly the guy should sue the person who recorded him without his knowledge for invasion of privacy.
 

chikusho

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Jun 14, 2011
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DrOswald said:
The fact that none of what happened was legal action makes it even worse. We aren't talking about legal rights but rights as an ideal, which are what legal rights are based on. Everyone should be able to live, everyone should be free, and everyone should have the right to pursue happiness. Everyone should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In the case of Sterling we threw away out ideal of privacy because we don't like him. How quickly we abandon our ideals.
I don't know about you, DrOswald, but I haven't thrown away a single ideal. In fact, I have done absolutely nothing related to this event whatsoever. I don't understand why you feel the need to take responsibility for what an unknown agent may or may not have done.

Also, you're right. Everyone should be able to live, everyone should be free, and everyone should have the right to pursue happiness. That includes everyone's right to condemn, and later stay the fuck away from awful people.

As far as people forgetting it happened? I don't expect that. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak. But that doesn't mean I am happy that people stooped so low in the first place.
I have no idea who these "people" you're referring to are supposed to be.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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I stand by my long held position that freedom of speech is NOT the freedom to speak only what you agree with. I object in principle to the argument that "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences" as the whole idea is to allow people to freely speak their minds even when their sentiments are unpopular. Private citizens having more power to regulate the speech of other private citizens than the government by holding a job over their head, or by controlling the platforms for expression than elected officials in the government is something I feel is wrong. What's more as the line between government and private becomes increasingly blurry with the way PACs and politicians work, it becomes increasingly easy for the government to effectively exercise control that it was never intended to be able to. Sure the government might not be able to silence someone by direct action, but it can have a company with political ties do it for them. This is why there has been so much concern from both parties over the years about the media effectively turning into a political mouthpiece.... beyond the simple point that when you get into the ability of an employer to ruin someone's life, or a private organization to force the sale of something like an NBA team, or simply the ability of someone in control of an informational platform to decide what is said on it, your rapidly approaching the concept of nobility and/or the inherent rights of merchant lords and princes, something the US is conceptually opposed to. The basic idea that simply through the rights of ownership someone has the right to pretty much abuse the people of lower classes with imputiny. This was not considered when the constitution was written because the founding fathers never conceived of things like tiny recording devices, or the kind of mass media we have today.

Right now while things are leaning one way politically it's easy to say "hey, let's establish all these precedents to terrorize the other side of the social and political spectrum and abolish even their simple ability to express themselves or vent!". That's wonderful, but incredibly short sighted as the pendulum always swings back the other way to some extent, especially when your antagonistic about things and force people underground or to operate outside the system. What's more when the pendulum does swing back, you then face all of those rules, standards, and regulations thrown right back at you. At some point if the wind changes, the people making these requirements might very well find themselves being oppressed and unable to say again speak against racism if the other side manages to regain power.

In a very real sense, it shouldn't matter what side of the political and social spectrum your on, everyone being able to speak freely, even saying things you hate, is very important. Every safeguard and balancing factor you remove,like the old "equal time" standards in journalism and reporting, or action to limit the ability to filibuster so things can be forced through without the required political support, is something that can be thrown back at you.

Speaking for myself I tend to think karma balances, not a popular sentiment for sure, but I tend to believe guys like Sterling shouldn't have any action taken against them by groups like the NBA. Rather I think their own words should simply be allowed to stand, and the same effect will be achieved when nobody is willing to play for him no matter how much money he offers to pay. The right way for this to end is not with an NBA crackdown, but with a lot of his players putting their money where their mouths are and walking away despite the millions he pays them and contract violation fines. That will make an appropriate statement, and be far more powerful and meaningful than having one injustice answered with another one.

Likewise it doesn't matter if he's a racist or not, bugging him in his own home is wrong. I doubt anyone on these forums hasn't shot their mouths off about something that wouldn't go over well in the general public behind closed doors. Maybe it wasn't racial, but it was probably something. Recording you, and then using it to ruin your life (no matter what your particular little piece of dirt might be, it's not relevant) is highly illegal. A lot more effort should be being put into finding and punishing who made that recording.

Sometimes I'll agree that the ends justify the means, but really in this case the ends were simply to prove a guy we all kind of knew was a jerk, was indeed a jerk, and to cost him a ton of money. The only way this could have been slimier is if the guy making the recording had tried to use it to blackmail him first.

I mean go ahead, cheer because you hate what the guy said, but one day that shoe might be on the other foot. Someone airs your dirty laundry and costs you a job or something and you probably won't be singing their praises for it. This is a precedent society should not be in support of.

Of course then again having been in surveillance, I actually have a bit more respect for this kind of thing than most people do. When you start looking behind the curtain everyone is dirty, and I mean everyone. There probably isn't a person you couldn't screw with enough time, some recording equipment, and the desire. My job had a very limited scope (most information was irrelevant, I was merely looking for specific things that affected my employer directly) but it deeply influenced how I think. Sterling is a bloody lightweight when it comes to the "freak factor" even if you just want to limit it to racism, people just care because he had deep pockets.
 

NiPah

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May 8, 2009
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Draconalis said:
the hidden eagle said:
This is not a issue of privacy and it never was.
Except... it is.

This whole thread is not about Sterling, it's about Olin's defending Sterling's right to privacy. Not his first amendment right, not his right to his beliefs. He was defending his right to privacy.

The same thing he is now the victim of.

I'm sorry you lost your job Mr. Olin. At least I understood where you were coming from. And it's a shame everyone is too blinded by their own righteous fury to see what you were saying.
Wait wait wait, it wasn't people with their righteous fury that fired Olin, it was the company that employed him.
It wasn't the righteous fury that the companies cared about either, it was the $$ that they stood to lose due to the actions of an employee, same with the NBA.
 

VoidOfOne

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Aug 14, 2013
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Both men made their bed and now they lay in it.

Sterling had it coming, considering all he has said and done to this point. A man in his position should know better.

And Josh Olin should know better. This isn't the first time someone said something on the internet that led to that person being fired. Whether this is right or wrong is one thing, but this happens all the time. Too much, in fact. Why Mr. Olin decided that what he had to say was important enough to say on Twitter shows, to me, his ignorance on this. Whether people should be punished for expressing their opinions becomes a mute point; people do get punished for their opinions, especially if they make it known.

As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Olin lost his job in part due to his conduct. He can say his tweets belong only to him, but he made no attempt to cover up that he worked for Turtle Beach, and so they responded. You can say whatever you want, in any form you want; just remember the consequences that happen are beyond your control after that.
 

JET1971

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Apr 7, 2011
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If you say it publicly you cannot be a victim when you suffer from the backlash as far as being a bigot or any other ideologies that are popular in the dregs of society. If you are a disgusting human being keep it private, if you make it public you deserve all the bad publicity and shaming. It's that simple and anyone that defends such people deserves the same fate.

1rst amendment works both ways, you have the right to be as disgusting as you want and others have the right to call you scum for saying it. If you do not want to be called out then exercise your rights by not saying disgusting things no matter how much you believe they are right.

*Edit
Also PR rep's and spokespeople... there is not distinction personal and representing the company. you are the face for that company and everything you say and do represents the company. If you say something in a personal manner it can and will be brought up when you are representing the company. That's the nature of the job, If you take a job as a community manager or a company spokesperson you merge private life with company. Getting fired from that position for being a bigot is in every companies right. And I agree with that because you could hire someone and they put up a twitter and try to piss off the whole world and that looks bad for the company.
 

Caffiene

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Jul 21, 2010
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This story makes me facepalm.

Nobody seems to dispute that the mistress took a private recording and sent it public.
It appears likely that making a private recording and publicly releasing it is illegal in California.
Therefore, by definition, Sterling was probably the victim of a illegal act.

His status as a disgusting human being doesnt change that, nor does his wholly deserved banning from the NBA. I dont get where the controversy comes in... And then this Olin guy gets fired for pointing it out. Ok maybe his phrasing was a bit provocative, but still the statement itself shouldnt be controversial. The only ways the statement should be noteworthy in any way is if somebody thinks either that his mistress didnt take the recording, or that taking the recording is legal in California; and I havent seen anybody claim either of those things.

The moral of the story is: "High emotion subjects. Just dont."
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Ok, lets summarize the facts.
A person is being racist. He gets fired/banned for being racist (ironic, as that is discrimination itself).
Another person posts a tweet about him being a victim here on his personal account.
He gets fired by his employer. presumably because the employer thinks its fine to disregard privacy and punish people for speech they did inside theri private homes.

Wow, this and the OKCupid deal lately, what the hell is wrong with people?

Pickapok said:
Just because one guy out of the HUNDREDS associated with the game, somebody who doesn't even WORK ON the game but manages its forums and community plays devil advocate, you are going to punish the entire group, developer and publisher? Granted in the end your handful of purchases won't amount to much damage, but seriously? How would you feel if someone recorded something you said or did in the privacy of your home and publicized it for the world to see? Would you want the world at large to know the kind of porn you look at? Or something else equally embarrassing?
I cant speak for others. Personally i will no longer buy the game (even thought it was one im interested in) because they fired the guy. What he does or says on his personal account should not in any way effect his employer, EVER. It is his personal account.


chikusho said:
I don't get why anyone is defending this guy.

Imagine you heard a friend of yours saying that they hate your guts and find you repulsive.
Would you reason that:
"oh, but he said that in a private conversation, so it's fine. he has a right to hate my guts and find me repulsive without any reaction or consequences from me. we can still hang out and stuff, it's all good!"?
That "friend" has a right to think of me whatever he wants as long as he is not inciting others to harm me or forcing anyone to change their opinions about me. Not sure if i would hang out with him, because its unlikely that somone that finds me repulsive would be hanging out with me, but i wont go and try ot ruin his life for it if thats what your asking.

the hidden eagle said:
He has a right to say racist things behind closed doors,and anyone has the same right to get tired of his crap and expose the filth being spewed for the public to see.

People can and are fired for doing or saying things that are out of line based on the notion that there's nobody around.Why is Donald Sterling so special?

Police and public officials get caught doing something they're not supposed to all the time,because someone is recording their every move, yet I don't see anyone calling them a victim.Save your defense for someone who deserves it instead of a racist who got exposed.

This is not a issue of privacy and it never was.
No. thats called invasion of privacy and is actually illegal. so no, you dont have a "Right" to expose anything.

Yes, people are fired for doing things somone doesnt like. THAT IS BAD.

NO, this is an issue of privacy and freedom of speech, and it is not one about Sterlink but about Evolve.


King Whurdler said:
So... no Mr.Olin, Donald Sterling was not a victim, and I think it's just a bit silly that you think of him as such. Not to worry though, I still think your game looks interesting and I'm eager to check it out. I won't stop myself just because you're a bit of a tool, and honestly, I hope this doesn't cost you your job. I mean that sincerely.
Donald Sterling was illegally surveyed inside his private home. so by the definition of a law he is a victim of a crime that is illegla surveilance. His right to pribacy is broken. And law works for everyone, even racist bigots.

Easton Dark said:
No controversial opinions. People don't understand what being a representative means.
people dont understand what private account means.

MeChaNiZ3D said:
Cannot fucking believe this.
Welcome to the world where people who pretended to fight for equal opportunities have gained the upper hand.
 

Easton Dark

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Strazdas said:
Easton Dark said:
No controversial opinions. People don't understand what being a representative means.
people dont understand what private account means.
Private account on a social networking site seems like an oxymoron. This is not private speech.
 

shirkbot

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Apr 15, 2013
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Caffiene said:
To be fair there are a lot of people (myself included) who are basically ignorant of pretty much all the fine details you just mentioned. My understanding of the story to this point was/is literally "Racist dude with a history of being a generally terrible person is banned for life from the NBA, and an unrelated community manager said he was a victim." That understanding is what makes it controversial because without any details it sounds like Olin was defending a terrible person. I can see now that I'm missing a lot of information, and I knew that going in which is why I refrained from commenting, but a lot of people don't. We're human, and humans are stupid.

I agree though, emotional subjects (ESPECIALLY on the internet) are a bad idea, but I'd like to add that if you're considering posting something on Twitter, just don't. Just... Just don't.

OT: You know, I was on board with the Mozilla thing (Do unto others and money = action) and this Sterling guy being banned (from what I've heard/read his actions were awful), but this is troubling because this was purely speech/thought. Again, Twitter + Emotional Subject = Bad Idea, but this is not a positive step for anyone. Is there some way to help Olin?
 

Draconalis

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2008
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NiPah said:
Wait wait wait, it wasn't people with their righteous fury that fired Olin, it was the company that employed him.
It wasn't the righteous fury that the companies cared about either, it was the $$ that they stood to lose due to the actions of an employee, same with the NBA.
The "everyone" I was speaking about were the people in this thread. None of which stood to lose money.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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jetriot said:
The people that boycott people for having opinions different than their own are no better McCarthy era witch hunters in my book. I understand boycotting a Nazi, I even understand boycotting Sterlin... but boycotting a company because an employee had an opinion about a racist??!?! Its anti-democratic, pro-fascist behavior to want to destroy people that disagree with you at such a mundane level.
How about boycotting a company for firing people trying to defend freedom of speech? I for one will be not buying the game not because what the community manager said, but because he got fired over it.

LetalisK said:
Yes, his right to privacy probably was violated according to California law and he could probably sue the dog shit out of his (probably) ex-mistress. That doesn't mean the NBA has to cover their ears and pretend nothing happened, though.
actually, in real court the evidence would be inadmissable and be akin to covering their ears and imagining it hasnt happened. at least technically.

Deathfish15 said:
See that? He's advertising that he represents that particular company AND their product from his own page. Which stands to reason that anything he mentions there is now the shared opinion of the company/products he represents.
{Hyperbolic example inc:}
That's like walking into a different McDonald's than the one you work at, but in full McDonald's uniform and shouting "I support racists and their 1st Amendment rights!". Do you not see the kind of PR nightmare it would be for that store and the company as a whole? Ya.....you'd get canned, even if you were doing this on your own personal free time... {/end hyperbolic example.}






As for the Firefox thing, it was a bit more than just "Free Speech". To make the statement "I don't support gay marriage" is not the same thing as paying $1,000 to actively try to BAN it from your state. He was appointed the head honcho of a major corporation and has made very public, open opinions expression a hate towards specific groups of people.
It would be nice if you had read the last sentence of his info as well. the one that said that his tweets belong to him and not the company.
As for your hyperbolic example, its false. a better one would be if you were to follow a mcdonalds employee home after work, find him in his back yard and he would say "yeah, i believe everyone has a right to free speech, even racists".

As for Firefox, Supreme Court of US declared donations as an act of speech. It was free, legal speech. Except it wasnt free, as he got fired over it.
And no, he did not made public open opinions and expressions of hate.

Sniper Team 4 said:
Sorry man, but you had to know this was coming. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want and expect no consequences from anyone.
Actually, thats exactly what freedom of speech means. If you get beaten because you said what somone else didnt like its not really free now is it?

JET1971 said:
If you say it publicly you cannot be a victim when you suffer from the backlash as far as being a bigot or any other ideologies that are popular in the dregs of society. If you are a disgusting human being keep it private, if you make it public you deserve all the bad publicity and shaming. It's that simple and anyone that defends such people deserves the same fate.
but he did said it privately in his home. he was illegaly wiretapped and then exposed.
also for your PR person part: this is sadly reality when the ideal would be exactl opposite. just another way gaming indsutry as a whole is rotten and needs a good shakeup.

Caffiene said:
I dont get where the controversy comes in
it comes in because there is a large portion of people, apperently including game developers too, who believe that it is fine to commit illegal acts and witchunts as long as the victim can be labeled "bigot".

Easton Dark said:
Private account on a social networking site seems like an oxymoron. This is not private speech.
No. There is a clear seperation between a persons personal account and the companys account. they are two different accounts. On the official account he needs to be representative. What he does on his personal account is nobody's business.
 

Kmadden2004

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Feb 13, 2010
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Okay, so... somebody tell me honestly...

Who "won" in this instance? Has the progressive cause progressed any further by Olin's sacking? I look at this sorry mess and I just can't see what good has come out of it.