Evolve Community Mgr Fired After Tweet on Donald Sterling - Update

Easton Dark

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Strazdas said:
Easton Dark said:
Private account on a social networking site seems like an oxymoron. This is not private speech.
No. There is a clear seperation between a persons personal account and the companys account. they are two different accounts. On the official account he needs to be representative. What he does on his personal account is nobody's business.
I would argue that when he accepted the job of community manager, his personal account became an official account. Expectations are set for interaction with the community. Food for thought.

Kmadden2004 said:
Okay, so... somebody tell me honestly...

Who "won" in this instance? Has the progressive cause progressed any further by Olin's sacking? I look at this sorry mess and I just can't see what good has come out of it.
Nobody really, but no one would have won if he wasn't fired either. He was a bad PR guy. So it's a pyrrhic win for Turtle Rock in that he wont cost them more sales down the line, but they've already lost sales and continue to do so because they fired him.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Kmadden2004 said:
Okay, so... somebody tell me honestly...

Who "won" in this instance? Has the progressive cause progressed any further by Olin's sacking? I look at this sorry mess and I just can't see what good has come out of it.
Who won? probably the only people that won here are the people that think laws and rules only apply when its them in trouble.

Easton Dark said:
I would argue that when he accepted the job of community manager, his personal account became an official account. Expectations are set for interaction with the community. Food for thought.
You would argue incorrectly. This is the official account: https://twitter.com/EvolveGame
Here is his personal account: https://twitter.com/JD_2020
see - they are two different accounts.

Expectations from official account is to be about the game. Expectations from personal accont is tweets that cosists that person opinion. Sometimes they coincide, however in no way they are supposed to represent eachother. If you considered his personal account to be official representation - you are part of the problem with this.

I dont know how good or bad PR guy he was as i do not use twitter and reply on more traditional media (like this site) for my gaming news. however the reason he got sacked is that he supported freedom of speech, and that is wrong.
 

Deathfish15

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Strazdas said:
Deathfish15 said:
See that? He's advertising that he represents that particular company AND their product from his own page. Which stands to reason that anything he mentions there is now the shared opinion of the company/products he represents.
{Hyperbolic example inc:}
That's like walking into a different McDonald's than the one you work at, but in full McDonald's uniform and shouting "I support racists and their 1st Amendment rights!". Do you not see the kind of PR nightmare it would be for that store and the company as a whole? Ya.....you'd get canned, even if you were doing this on your own personal free time... {/end hyperbolic example.}






As for the Firefox thing, it was a bit more than just "Free Speech". To make the statement "I don't support gay marriage" is not the same thing as paying $1,000 to actively try to BAN it from your state. He was appointed the head honcho of a major corporation and has made very public, open opinions expression a hate towards specific groups of people.
It would be nice if you had read the last sentence of his info as well. the one that said that his tweets belong to him and not the company.
As for your hyperbolic example, its false. a better one would be if you were to follow a mcdonalds employee home after work, find him in his back yard and he would say "yeah, i believe everyone has a right to free speech, even racists".

As for Firefox, Supreme Court of US declared donations as an act of speech. It was free, legal speech. Except it wasnt free, as he got fired over it.
And no, he did not made public open opinions and expressions of hate.
1) It doesn't matter if he claims that his own posts are his own [thoughts/opinions]. If he truly wanted them to be his own, then he really shouldn't have posted his association and representation of the company and product. By doing so he was tying everything he said/did on his personal Twitter account to both those things.

2) And no, a back yard =/= a PUBLIC TWITTER PAGE, with plasterings of his job and the product they make. My example was spot on as he was openly, in the public, while wearing a 'virtual uniform' of the company, defending a bigot and saying that the individual in question was a "victim". Maybe if he posted it on a privately locked Facebook page that nobody could view it would have been a different issue altogether, but he publicly shared this opinion openly to everyone knowing full well that others could view it.


3) Alright, you're contracting yourself on your thing about the Firefox. If the USSC declared that donations are an act of Free Speech, then by making the donations himself, he was making a speech about his hate towards homosexuals and a stance against them. See how that works? You can't have it one way or another, it either is or it isn't. It's also a political action by him against a select group of people. How do you not see that as being similar to rich German individuals giving money to the Nazi party during it's early iteration? I'm not kidding you in that thought, as it's on par with what he's doing (supporting political parties with motivations to ban select individuals from shared rights of other individuals so as to eventually push those banned individuals out of the system). HE WAS WRONG for what he did; whether you agree or disagree is your own opinion. HOWEVER, there were many companies, public groups, and general citizens that disagreed with him and voiced their opinion by using FREE SPEECH to publicly call to boycott his company and don't support anything that he's working for/supporting. Their actions of FREE SPEECH against such an ignorant fool (yes, he's an ignorant fool) worked as it got the company to get him to remove his position because the public FREE SPEECH against him and the company hurt their image.




5) Bottom line is that people like you will support FREE SPEECH for people that are bigots, racists, and have a general opinion that is opposite of the majority public. However, when it comes to the majority public to turn it's FREE SPEECH into movements against such people in a way that it not only exposes them for the hateful person(s) they are, but to bring it's attention to their employer that has to act to save a company's image, that's something you'll completely disagree with and call against? Hypocrite much?
 

chikusho

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Strazdas said:
That "friend" has a right to think of me whatever he wants as long as he is not inciting others to harm me or forcing anyone to change their opinions about me. Not sure if i would hang out with him, because its unlikely that somone that finds me repulsive would be hanging out with me, but i wont go and try ot ruin his life for it if thats what your asking.
And he dodges!

Yeah right, oh woe is me. Whatever will happen with this 80 year old billionare. Surely he's doomed to a life of... continued unimaginable luxury for the rest of his days. I would not wish that upon my worst enemy..?

Your argument basically boils down to that people should deny a truth simply because someone somewhere at some time infringed on another persons personal space. Like if you happen to be watching over your girlfriends shoulder when gets a sext from a dude named "hot stuff", you're supposed to ignore it cuz "personal space" or whatever.
 

Win32error

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You know, I had to think about both of these for a few seconds. But the simple fact is that as a public figure, and the owner of any company, be it large or small, you have to represent that company. Now, nobody has to be perfect, but when remarks like that are leaked, no matter where you're at, your company has the right to fire you. It's simply the fact that you are causing potentially enormous damage to your company, in a way that cannot be defended by saying "hey, it's just my opinion". So I'd say that he's a victim of being taped without his knowledge in his own home, but that doesn't remove that fact that the statements, even if illegally acquired and spread, are still hugely damaging. That's simply enough to throw someone out.

As for the community manager, he is one, if not THE most important face of his company. He should know that his most important job is actually to represent his company, so he should know that everything he says publicly outside of his role as community manager will still reflect on his employer. If he had slightly reworded his tweet it could've maybe been different, but he openly declared sterling a victim. Just not smart at all.

It's actually fairly often that these PR types and community managers slip up by making an inflammatory comment somewhere, does anyone know why? Is it because they need to vent, or because they forget their position? Maybe because twitter doesn't allow someone to reflect before posting or remove a tweet easily? I'm thinking it's all of it.
 

SnakeoilSage

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cursedseishi said:
No. No I didn't. Please try again. I said the "obvious inclusion" of a victim, since the most typically upheld charges of pedophillia are those that include real, living individuals. I don't know how you managed to somehow distill my post into me being dismissive of racism, or claiming it was victimless, but no. I was, however, saying that his mistress (of mixed minority decent) likely only brought this out to light because he was no longer paying out like before, and felt like this would be much more profitable than being with him and dealing with it.
So you're dismissing her possible outrage as mere monetary gain. That she might not have had to put up with his bigotry over a period of time and only recently decided she was going to expose his racism to the people that he not only feels disgust towards, but exploits for his monetary gain?
 

DrOswald

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Apr 22, 2011
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chikusho said:
DrOswald said:
The fact that none of what happened was legal action makes it even worse. We aren't talking about legal rights but rights as an ideal, which are what legal rights are based on. Everyone should be able to live, everyone should be free, and everyone should have the right to pursue happiness. Everyone should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In the case of Sterling we threw away out ideal of privacy because we don't like him. How quickly we abandon our ideals.
I don't know about you, DrOswald, but I haven't thrown away a single ideal. In fact, I have done absolutely nothing related to this event whatsoever. I don't understand why you feel the need to take responsibility for what an unknown agent may or may not have done.
I take responsibility for it because I know that complacent attitudes will only allow this trend to spread. I take responsibility because I helped build the society in which violations of privacy are not only possible but often praised. I don't want violations of privacy to become the norm, so I take responsibility and do what I can about it. I can't do much, but I can try to counter the enthusiasm with which our ideals are cast aside.

And you threw away your ideals as soon as you were ok with what happened. You may not have done anything yourself, but you never said anything against it. You even defend it. You think your hands are clean because someone else got them dirty for you. But I am not worried about who's hands are clean, I worry about the direction our society is moving.

Also, you're right. Everyone should be able to live, everyone should be free, and everyone should have the right to pursue happiness. That includes everyone's right to condemn, and later stay the fuck away from awful people.
Sure, and that is just fine. Go ahead and condemn and stay away from awful people. But the way we found out (or rather, how it became a big deal. Everyone apparently already knew it.) was a terrible, scuzzy, disgusting way. I am not ok with that.

As far as people forgetting it happened? I don't expect that. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak. But that doesn't mean I am happy that people stooped so low in the first place.
I have no idea who these "people" you're referring to are supposed to be.
The people who violated the ideal of privacy and the people who praise that action.
 

DeaDRabbiT

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Sep 25, 2010
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Church185 said:
Cool, it looks like I have one less game to buy!

It's his right to be an old bigot, but it's my right to not support anyone who roots for him.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of speech without consequence. The NBA isn't the government, they can do as they please.
Yeah, because he's obviously rooting for him. You're the problem bud, not the solution.

What hate btw? The guy was a huge donor to the NAACP, he also seemed to genuinely not care about his girlfriends private associations.

Honestly, you know what it sounded like. It sounded like Sterling was a coward and not a bigot. It sounded like he was more worried about the attention he was getting from (his most likely more bigoted family and friends) was the real problem and not who what's her face was hanging out with.

I do agree with the broader sentiment that his speech should be free, but not free from the consequences it brings. I would however expect that those with adequate brainpower use it critically instead of bleating along with the rest of the sheep.
 

DeaDRabbiT

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SnakeoilSage said:
cursedseishi said:
No. No I didn't. Please try again. I said the "obvious inclusion" of a victim, since the most typically upheld charges of pedophillia are those that include real, living individuals. I don't know how you managed to somehow distill my post into me being dismissive of racism, or claiming it was victimless, but no. I was, however, saying that his mistress (of mixed minority decent) likely only brought this out to light because he was no longer paying out like before, and felt like this would be much more profitable than being with him and dealing with it.
So you're dismissing her possible outrage as mere monetary gain. That she might not have had to put up with his bigotry over a period of time and only recently decided she was going to expose his racism to the people that he not only feels disgust towards, but exploits for his monetary gain?
I'm sorry, but I don't think you have the slightest idea what the word exploit actually means.

Slavery was exploitation. Owning a basketball team and paying the players millions upon millions of dollars isn't exploitation.

Wal-Mart telling their workers to go on food stamps as a "good way" to supplement their income is exploitation.

Hell, the NCAA, and the colleges that reap whirlwind profits off the likeness and talent of student athletes is exploitation.

But no, what you presume to be exploitation, couldn't be further from it.
 
May 29, 2011
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In the real world, when something you say makes your employers look bad, you get fired.

If he doesn't like it he shouldn't have signed a private contract. The company was in a position where it was better for them to kick him out then do anything else, that's all this is about.

It has very little to do with morality, from a PR perspective this was the best thing for the NBA to do.

Same thing with the twitter guy I suppose, if they feel that they're in a better spot if they do something they're gonna do it. This is how companies work.
 

DeaDRabbiT

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Sep 25, 2010
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the hidden eagle said:
theluckyjosh said:
the hidden eagle said:
You know something is wrong when people are actually defending a bigot's right to spew his/her hate without consequence.There's something very wrong with that.
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

And before 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence', I should like to point out that a mob is a mob is a mob. It isn't rational, it isn't discriminating, it just stomps flat everything in it's path.

Wasn't so long ago that a lot of people lost jobs (and liberty) over answering questions like "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?" or "Have you ever engaged in homosexual or bisexual acts?" the 'wrong' way; different mob, different agenda, same torches and pitchforks.

Are you prepared to make a similar statement if the tides of public opinion change (because they always do) and you're the one on the block?
First off that scenario is apples and oranges.Second there's a clear difference in HATE speech or spreading hatred and someone getting fired because of sexual orientation or political views,hell the latter is dicrimination in of itself.

Third I don't have to worry about any of that because it's a imagined scenario that has the same chance of happening as World War 3.Can we please stop trying to make up shit just to defend the privacy of one bigot who got exposed for what he really is?
Umm, the Westboro Baptist Church practices "hate speech" Donald Sterling was privately expressing his views. That on it's face is not hate speech, it's having a fucking opinion (pardon my French)

And you think just because something isn't likely to happen, that it isn't worth discussing? You are aware that rhetorical arguments, and thought experiments are core tenants of philosophical thought right?

Also, as a personal aside, presuming something is about as likely to happen as "World War III" (in the current geopolitical climate) is about as boneheaded a thing to say as can be imagined. I might be inclined to agree with you if the world was enjoying a period of relative calm and prosperity, but in fact the world is probably as sectarian and hostile as it's ever been in the modern period.

So, I wouldn't stake any claims based upon the sentiment that something like that might happen, because it just makes for an easily dismissed opinion coming from you.