Examples of how Feminism works to benefit men

[rbstewart7263]

Who says that Jane and I don't both have the same amount of Coins and she is failing to realize it?

Unfortunately, this is the part where it would be better if I had a list of statistics to show you, but I don't really have time to look them up (I'm sorry). But really, this question seems to be asking "does gender inequality exist, or is it really just a figment of the feminist imagination?", to which I could suggest taking a diversity course (really, this is the best option, as actual teachers can explain these things infinitely better than I can). I'm also pretty sure, after the jillion threads people have made on the subject, that there are some good sources around this site you could look at (people post them all the time). Sorry I'm not more help.

Just to provide a counter point to this, women actually earn more until they have kids, implying that it isn't sexism at work causing a wage gap, but their own choices.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/reverse-gender-gap-study-young-childless-women-earn/story?id=11538401#.UBHH3_WjKlw
http://www.9news.com/moms/article/273342/499/Study-Young-women-earn-more-than-young-men

I've seen it in other places to about the jobs and choices women take regarding work leads them to earn less over a lifetime than men. They amoer likely to work part time and take less overtime etc and this all adds up

Not to mention other studies that suggest that Women are more likely to choose comfort over money, avoiding things like longer hours and longer commutes. Other Studies imply that Men are also more likely to ask for a raise while Women tend to expect to just get said raise for doing their jobs well, ignoring that a company is not going to pay you more if they can get away with avoiding that.

The wage gap tends to be the biggest womens issue I ever see people wheeling out, so if it is bullshit, what else is left.

I shall now file this thread and debate as DESTROYED! yes thats right there is a clear winner winner chicken dinner. I would give you guys the chicken dinner but with patriarchy ruling for so long its only fair to give the chicken that you won....to a woman.

Lmao!!!

 

[rbstewart7263]

Who says that Jane and I don't both have the same amount of Coins and she is failing to realize it?

Unfortunately, this is the part where it would be better if I had a list of statistics to show you, but I don't really have time to look them up (I'm sorry). But really, this question seems to be asking "does gender inequality exist, or is it really just a figment of the feminist imagination?", to which I could suggest taking a diversity course (really, this is the best option, as actual teachers can explain these things infinitely better than I can). I'm also pretty sure, after the jillion threads people have made on the subject, that there are some good sources around this site you could look at (people post them all the time). Sorry I'm not more help.

You do realize that there is more than one type of discrimination, right? Women are treated differently in the media as well as in what kind of job they are expected to get (same for men). In the top 100 CEO's, less than 5 of them are women. There are more women, however, in elementary education. Stereotypical "female" jobs earn less than jobs that are seen as being for men or more masculine (engineering, sports, CEO again). Society has expectations for what kinds of jobs women should hold. This is why people get so bent out of shape when the "girl" aisle for toys is completely pink and filled with "domestic" barbies while the "boy" aisle has science-y spy toys and superheros. They're telling young kids where they should focus and what they should be.

Additionally, relationships tend to be uneven. Women end up doing more household work, despite holding a job, and going to school if they're still a student. People talk about how feminism has begun to pave way for women to be more loose sexually, but it doesn't always benefit women. Most hook-ups don't lead to full blown sex, and most of them are concentrated on bringing the guy pleasure (blow jobs, hand jobs). Even during hookup sex (if I remember the article correctly) women feel more pressure to pleasure their partner (based on a survey). If you want a source for any of this just ask.
Basically, pay is not the only area where women are at a disadvantage.

OT: Feminism is about changing society's view on gender in order to alter a power balance. Making society view males and females as having the same value on most fields could lead to less pressure on men to be super macho and emotionless, etc. Women might not be as pressured to be as girly girl (pink every where, shopping focused, high pitched voice, whatever). So if those people annoy you, I guess that would be another plus.

Yes but women doing said masculine/ physical labour get paid the same as there cock swinging brethren so whats your point?

If you want teachers to get the same as road workers you need to educate on the equal importance of brains and brawn equally. Saying that teachers get the shaft cause most of the ones going for those jobs is fallacious logic. ask any male teach about his pay and youl hear the same complaints about how hes underpaid.

Weve always paid brawn more than brains no matter what was between the legs. thats actually pretty equal far as gender issues go.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Who says that Jane and I don't both have the same amount of Coins and she is failing to realize it?

Unfortunately, this is the part where it would be better if I had a list of statistics to show you, but I don't really have time to look them up (I'm sorry). But really, this question seems to be asking "does gender inequality exist, or is it really just a figment of the feminist imagination?", to which I could suggest taking a diversity course (really, this is the best option, as actual teachers can explain these things infinitely better than I can). I'm also pretty sure, after the jillion threads people have made on the subject, that there are some good sources around this site you could look at (people post them all the time). Sorry I'm not more help.

You do realize that there is more than one type of discrimination, right? Women are treated differently in the media as well as in what kind of job they are expected to get (same for men). In the top 100 CEO's, less than 5 of them are women. There are more women, however, in elementary education. Stereotypical "female" jobs earn less than jobs that are seen as being for men or more masculine (engineering, sports, CEO again). Society has expectations for what kinds of jobs women should hold. This is why people get so bent out of shape when the "girl" aisle for toys is completely pink and filled with "domestic" barbies while the "boy" aisle has science-y spy toys and superheros. They're telling young kids where they should focus and what they should be.

Additionally, relationships tend to be uneven. Women end up doing more household work, despite holding a job, and going to school if they're still a student. People talk about how feminism has begun to pave way for women to be more loose sexually, but it doesn't always benefit women. Most hook-ups don't lead to full blown sex, and most of them are concentrated on bringing the guy pleasure (blow jobs, hand jobs). Even during hookup sex (if I remember the article correctly) women feel more pressure to pleasure their partner (based on a survey). If you want a source for any of this just ask.
Basically, pay is not the only area where women are at a disadvantage.

OT: Feminism is about changing society's view on gender in order to alter a power balance. Making society view males and females as having the same value on most fields could lead to less pressure on men to be super macho and emotionless, etc. Women might not be as pressured to be as girly girl (pink every where, shopping focused, high pitched voice, whatever). So if those people annoy you, I guess that would be another plus.

Yeah, I know, I was using coins as a metaphor for inequality. I chose "coin" because other people were discussing money earlier (so, where I got the idea) and it was easy to visualize. I've thought about using water, but it's not as easy, and could be picked apart with "well, what about rain/oceans/lakes/etc.?" I actually agree with all of what you've said, I just picked a simplistic and confusing metaphor. I'm sorry for the confusion.

I disagree a mans masculinity is measured in lays and how many orgasm's he gives a girl before cumming himself.

If a guy cums first hes shamed. If a woman comes first its whatever.

Nay Sex pressure has always benefited women at the expense of men I myself in my younger years am an example of this.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Did you just seriously draw a direct line of comparison between the consensual choices that are made by grown adult women, and the academic under-performance of adolescent boys due to environmental and biological factors largely out of their control?

If you want I could talk about the enormously higher crime rates amongst adult men, I could talk about diminished health awareness and lower levels of fitness among adult men, I could talk about higher suicide rates.

The point remains. Wherein these things can be rationalized, do you think we should just shrug our shoulders and assume they don't matter, or that we shouldn't attempt to fix them, because they are the product of "choices".

Don't insult me and yourself by citing "environmental and biological factors" as if they somehow excuse inequality. The former is condoning sexism, the latter has never even been demonstrated to be relevant.

It is not about recognizing what are and are not "consensual choices", if boys choose not to study in school, it's a "consensual choice", if men choose to behave violently or kill themselves, it's a "consensual choice". Whether or not it is, however, is absolutely fucking meaningless. What we should be looking at is not a pointless definition of "consensual choice", but a much more inclusive definition of personal agency, the way in which these choices are limited. Why are boys choosing not to study in school? Why are men behaving violently and killing themselves? What is inclining or limiting their choices towards these outcomes?

If people are predisposed towards certain self-defeating behaviours based on their sex by "environmental factors", then the environment they are living in is sexist. It is predetermining the quality of their outcomes based on something utterly circumstantial. Whether or not they get a "choice" is not relevant if the "dice", the terms on which they make that choice, are structured to incline them towards a specific outcome on the basis of nothing more than what they have in their trousers.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I see what you're getting at. The question is, what can the average person do other than take on this outlook? I guess it's the kind of thing that is just going to take some time to get sorted. Sure, it's easy for you and I to treat women as equals but until everyone does the same we are just going to go in circles.

Bit off-topic, but I'm going to challenge the assertion that it's easy for people to treat women as equals, if they have grown up and currently live in a society in which many/most people do not.

Not saying it's impossible, it's just that there are a lot of people who like to assume that the societal pressures that affect everyone else somehow don't work on them, or that in the absence of any large obvious immediately influences, everything defaults back to equality.

People called out on their privilege tend to deny it, and they generally often aren't lying, they totally don't/won't understand there could be a problem.