- Dec 7, 2009
It is silly but that was the point, look at the old source books it's just old fashioned English humour. But eh I can see why he dislikes it, I don't really like modern 40k either.
remnant_phoenix" post="6.316240.12856438 said:I've always found Warhammer (Fantasy and 40K) to be a little...underwhelming.
It's basically a "darker" DnD setting where any faction is justified in going into all-out war with any other faction. It's a setting where the lore is meant to serve the game mechanics. And while that's not inherently a bad thing, there are those of us who enjoy the story side of things more. For people in that camp, it is preferable when the mechanics are made to serve the story progression, or better yet, the story and the mechanics develop symbiotically.
I think you're forgetting the dozens of books wriiten in the 40k universe. Sure, most are simple bloodfests, but there are a few gems. Try reading "The Last Chrurch". It'll surprise you.
Although I have an Eldar army, I don't tend to game mich. i'm much more into the background, the lore of the whole setting. It makes a nice break to the cleanliness of Star Trek/Wars.
That's a good one.Da Orky Man said:Try reading "The Last Church". It'll surprise you.
Gildan Bladeborn said:40K is a cautionary tale and a bloody fascinating setting with depths that aren't readily apparent if you're only looking at the wargame or the superficial impressions people are happy to spread about online. Settings like Gears of War are stupid macho bullshit action romps with no substance at all beyond being a stupid macho bullshit action romp - Space Marine and the Warhammer 40,000 setting itself only look like one of those, and if you're 14 (chronologically or mentally), that superficial impression of the universe based on how it contains power-armored giants with chainsaw swords is enough for you to like it.
Those of you out there who feel you have to deride the setting based on its appeal to the 14-year old demographic (perhaps in an effort to prove that you are certainly not a mental 14 year old, no sirree!) are only doing yourselves and everyone else who listens to you a disservice, and also missing the point, just like Yahtzee did in this article. There's no rule that says you have to like the 40K setting but for once I'd love to see somebody who doesn't like it (and then writes an article explaining why) who clearly knows what the hell they're talking about.
So far, I've only ever seen people attack a straw man stand-in for the setting though.
cefm said:It's all just unrealistic bull that only the most juvenile middle-schooler would find engaging.
yeah and that is kinda of a problem with the image of the game and universe. If you actually go into the lore you find out space marines have there own space faring ships that, per definition, specialize in boarding and captures and establishing beachheads for planetary invasions. There are two spinoff games made by the same company called battlefleet gothic, thats about space ship combat, and epic 40K which instead of squad level decisions you're making company level decisions, and in those games the "marine" part of space marines becomes alot more apparent.rda_Highlander said:Although I agree with what you say, it still isn't nearly their definition. All I've seen of them is standing in the field/trees/mud and shooting from heavy weaponry/ripping with swords/bashing with charisma. The Guards are more suited to be called "space marines" as far as I can tell. The marines themselves are more of a paratrooper kind. Oh, right! Space Troopers! That's what I'd call them. Although there are already certain Starship Troopers, but that's beyond the case.rayen020 said:A marine, as a military term, is a type of soldier who specializes ship to ship combat and amphibious or trans-terrain warfare. The US Marines are naval infantry, and in many countries marine (in the military sense) translates almost exactly to that. The term space is applied to the front to note that they are a space going marine, also seen in spaceship, space shuttle, space capsule. They are Marines in that they work both on ships and land and can battle equally effectively on either of them.
Ask and ye shall receive.rda_Highlander said:No, I know precisely what it means. Maybe I didn't pick the right words. At what time do we see that it is a satire? Just because some of you want to believe it is? Or there was some interview where developers said this? I mean, I could say that Tetris is a satire on modern society, and even give some insight, but it would still be my opinion and not the fact.Arontala said:I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Naeras said:From what I understand the Emperor was basically a magic superpowered space Jesus who wanted to protect humanity and teach them the value of science and truth. Then he gets betrayed by his closest, pretty much dies, and then gets worshipped as a god by the masses as a corrupt mashup of the medieval catholic church, communism and fascism runs the machinery: exactly the way he didn't want stuff to end up.
It's basically a Bible satire as far as I'm concerned. A Bible satire with chainswords, jetpacks and orcs.
Thanks for an in-depth analisys, though what I meant was, is there any proof from its creators as to its satirical nature. But someone said that it was in first two editions, so I guess it counts.Iron Lightning said:Ask and ye shall receive.
I would fault that about one thing - the beauty of D&D is (unless the players choose otherwise) the lack of a setting. You can take D&D and run a game set in Tolkeinverse 107, or you can run a game in 1400s France, or in 1800s England, or Ancient Greece, or in your favorite fantasy novel, or in the future - I ran a Mass Effect game using D&D rules that was quite successful.Frankster said:The parts where he just says he doesnt like it, bashing one hobby then praising another, is not something that is "wrong" and is why "ignorant" is better, indeed on the tg thread one of the posters took yahtzees paragraph and replaced 40k with d'n'd and it fitted perfectly:
Actually, my biggest complaint about 40K is that it stifles creativity.Frankster said:But as you say you've chatted to 40k players before, I imagine the arguments you would have if you bothered to write a tl dr about it (you don't, that's why you would rather link ppl to yahtzees article) would likely be more accurate then yahtzees.
Yes, I got that. And, just to be clear, I didn't mean the same Warhammer the article was about. Not exactly. I meant this Warhammer [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Roleplay].SilverUchiha said:Cool. FYI, wasn't knocking that Warhammer didn't have story or anything. I was just saying I agreed with his point about D&D and that's it.
I'm playing 3.5 now and I know the potential for great storytelling is there. Perhaps even "combat-oriented play" is not the right phrase... "Rules-oriented" maybe?SilverUchiha said:As for your thoughts on promoting combat-oriented play, it really depends on what version and what books you look at. If you do 3.5 and have a library of digital copies of all a lot of the books, it feels more like a story-telling roleplay experience. If you have 4.0 at all, then it is going to feel more combat oriented. Which is why I have not bothered trying to learn 4.0 yet aside from just not caring enough.
You ARE aware that the Emperor is Incapacitated and on life support right? He can't really do much.ACman said:I has always bothered me that the 40k universe is essentially a massive fascist theocracy where any sort of departure from the dogma of the state is eliminated with extreme prejudice.
There's no one to side with. Space Marines are battle-crazed fanatics. Chaos is hell. Orks are well... orks. Tyranids are insectoid monsters. Eldar would exterminate mankind without a second thought if they could. Tau are space communists. Imperial Guard are part of the aforementioned fascist theocratic space empire. Cultists are either alien or chaos mad. Necrons are space-undead-robot-gods or some shit.
I always thought the emperor should be more like a space-pope. Then there could be multiple human kingdoms/federations/confederacies/compacts.
But no, any difference will be purged by a bunch of insane fanatical jihadist. Bah.
That reads pretty much as "I don't like the setting, not really my cup of tea", as well as "my friends don't like playing the same sort of escapist fantasies as me (and are possibly shit GMs as well)" and that's fair enough, but it's not really what Yahtzee was saying, he's looking at the setting through the eyes of the 13 year old fanboy and assuming that's all there is to it (and IMO quite rightly calling space marine the game a middle of the road borefest).Princess Rose said:Actually, my biggest complaint about 40K is that it stifles creativity.
Hear me out.
Never played 40K in my life and all I know about the setting has been gleaned from my boyfriend.Lord_Gremlin said:Also, it has Ultramarines.
I refer to the psychic Emperor above and question whether that counts as "military fiction". "Saving Private Ryan" is military fiction. 40K is something else entirely!sharpe95th said:Why are any of your surprised the skinny nerdy man who loves fantasy, wears a stupid hat, and has a pretentious beard doesn't like military fiction?