Far Cry 3 and The Rape of Jason Brody

xorinite

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Adam Jensen said:
I told you already when your argument makes sense. And it doesn't make sense when a man is stimulated by nothing more than the actual rapist being sexually attractive. Put yourself in the situation where the only thing that stimulates you sexually is the actual "rapist". She does nothing unnatural to you. She's not forcing you to swallow some pills, she's not touching your anus, she's touching herself. If you still can't comprehend why that kind of situation is not rape then something is wrong with you or you're simply lying for the sake of trying to win an argument.
Lets try some thought experiments. First imagine you are male (if you aren't already male) and;

You are unconscious, you are having a dream about having sex with someone. When you wake up you find its someone you are not attracted to, or possibly repulsed by. Does the fact that your body had an erection mean you consented?

Now males can have erections at what age? Does that mean they give informed consent to sex at those ages, even if they get erections from someone moaning or exposing themselves to the male?

Lets say you are in a stable long term relationship, and you are as you suggest tied to a chair by a random woman who you don't love, and don't want to have sex with because you don't want to remain faithful to your relationship. Your body responds to visual and audible stimuli and you have an erection. You repeated inform the person that this will harm your relationship, so despite finding the person attractive you do not want to have sex with them. They do it anyway. Is this acceptable to you?

what if they take pictures or videotape it, is the fact that you had an erection while they set up the camera consent to being filmed or photographed, I mean you were aroused while being filmed, surely you had no problem with it?

You walk past a shop, look in at a large screen TV. its a beautiful TV, you really want that TV, but you reason you have other more important things to spend your money on at the moment. The shopkeeper however comes out and tells you he has charged your credit card and the TV will be sent to your house. You explain you didn't consent to this, he informs you that of course you did, your eyes dilated and your heart rate changed, you face became flushed. He can prove you wanted to buy the TV, so now you have. Would that be right?

There is a huge legal and moral difference between; Being aroused by something, having an involuntary physiological reaction (pupils dilating, hair on the back of your neck standing on end, shuddering in repulsion or fear) and giving informed consent only one of those is a valid reason for someone to do something to you. Would you really want this to be any other way?
 

Paradoxrifts

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Most of the audience of Far Cry 3 won't believe that Jason Brody was sexually assaulted by a good-looking native woman.

And the reason why is much like that of the audience of Twilight, when they gloss over some of the more worryingly erratic and domineering behaviour that Edward Cullen exhibits as romantic instead of creepy.
 

Boris Goodenough

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Kopikatsu said:
Well, generally rape causes certain kinds of vaginal tearing. Example, having two black eyes with no swelling near the temples is actually a type of injury consistent with a broken nose received from falling on a flat surface as opposed to having been punched in the face. Different injuries for different situations.

You could always argue that it was just really rough though, I guess. Although there might still be a difference...well, I'm not an expert on vaginal injuries.
It has been shown that rape doesn't causes extra tearing. http://tinyurl.com/d2z4pr2
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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I did like Citra and found her attractive, so I didn't mind that much when it happened.

However, I think something similar happens again at the ending, and then it is much worse. Now that I've finished the game and know about that ending, that first scene does come off as worse.
 

ultimateownage

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Whether or not that's rape is debatable. But one of his friends was undoubtedly the subject of gay rape in the game, and that's been brought up and criticised plenty of times.
 

cikame

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Michael Becket is raped by Alma in FEAR 2, though that event is more implied than viewed explicitly.

In any case, it's a difficult thing to determine whether or not a man has given consent for sex, more extreme cases like being tied up and screaming are obviously bad but, from my perspective, Jason kinda just wakes up thinking "what's going on, this is awesome", which i guess is consent...?
 

Weaver

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Samurai Rabbit said:
I spoke with a friend of mine who had just beaten the game and I asked him what he thought about the first case, as far as I can remember anyway, of male rape in a video game.
At the end of FEAR 2 you're raped by Adult Alma.
 

Prosis

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Kopikatsu said:
Rape is only traumatic because society says that it should be.
But if you disagree, let me ask this; how is rape objectively bad? 'Violates one's right to their own body' or something similar is not an objective statement, it's a subjective belief and so it's not valid.
Sure, I'm bored. I'll bite. Let's define objectively good or bad as "beneficial to the individual" or "harmful to the individual," with no consideration of rights, freedoms, or emotions (I think these things are critical, but for the sake of argument, I'll leave them out, for now).

Injury is common during rape. Bruises, wounds, and broken bones/missing teeth all weaken the individual, and open the door to infection. In a society where physical appearance/charisma is important for securing work and interaction, a physically damaged face can impact ones ability to function. Likewise, damage to limbs or bones reduce one's ability to move and perform manual work.
STDs can be transmitted during rape. While some STDS are minor nuisances, some, such as HIV, can result in the individual's death. I don't think I need to define how that is detrimental to the individual.
Pregnancy can be very detrimental to the individual. A pregnancy severely reduces ability to function for 9 months, demands consumption of a huge amount of additional resources, can kill the individual, and usually creates a child. Certain biological traps make it difficult for the mother to give up the child, which leads to (at mininum) a dozen years of expended resources for the child's sake.

Ok, so we conclude that objectively, rape is bad for the individual. But what about society? Wouldn't needs of society trump needs of individual, in accordance with most social species' evolution? Let's redefine good or bad as "beneficial to society" or "harmful to society."
The benefit is obvious. More rape = more people. However, the cons outweigh the pros, although I'll have to take some time to explain why.
Unlike most animals, humanity's accomplishment is not based off genetic information passed onto the offspring, but intellectual information passed to the offspring. That is, the modern human is superior to the human 2000 years ago not due to genetics, but due to access to a larger pool of information. This pool of information confers many benefits to individual (longer life cycle, able to produce more children, able to reduce risks and threats to children and self such as disease) and society (elimination/reduction of disease, higher production of food resources). This can be seen in the rapid growth of world population since the industrial revolution. That is, intellectual info passed down is improving humanity's ability to survive at a much more rapid rate than genetic evolution is.

So, what does that have to do with harms of rape in society? A rapist does not stick around for the offspring. That is, the duties of providing resources, securing resources, and educating the child all falls to the mother. While it can work, it reduces the child's ability to learn. The mother must designate more time to resource gathering (working), leaving less time for the child. While the child benefits from genetic information from both mother and father, his ability to learn from the pool of the info (which is more beneficial to humans than genetic evolution) is severely hampered. That is, the child produced of a rape is less valuable to society than a child produced by a couple devoted to raising the child.

Now, I know that you can argue a thousand different scenarios where these things can be avoided, and rape is beneficial (many of the individual harms can occur during consensual sex, etc.)

So that leads to the next question. What are the harms and benefits of consensual sex? That is, what are the harms and benefits of a woman dictating her sexual partners, and having control of her body?
The harm is obvious. Most women have way less children than they are physically capable of, and thus, there are less people in society.
But the benefit is that a child is more likely to be produced of a father who will stick around (that is, the father must prove he is a worthy mate, and will stay after the child). Yes, true, fathers often abandon the offspring, and oftentimes sex is initiated by seduction rather than "you are worthy to father my babies". But by having an increased chance of the father sticking around, there is an increased chance of the child being able to learn from both parents, and be more beneficial to society.


And finally, while not objective, emotions/rights are critical to society. If people do not have basic rights, society is less productive. This can be seen in how in times of peace/stability, great contributions were made to the pool of humanity's information. The Greek's accomplishments, the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, and the Industrial Revolution all occurred in societies that were stable, and guarenteed certain rights (life, property, etc). That is, when less time had to be contributed to ensuring one's own survival, things could be discovered to benefit humanity. This has mostly been done by men throughout history, as women were forced primarily into caring for children.

The majority of modern studies have concluded that women and men, although different, are intellectually equal. That is, a woman is capable of making the same advances as a man, if guaranteed the same rights. However, if a woman has to devote resources to caring for a child she did not choose to have, then she has less time to make the advances which benefits humanity further than reproduction.


TLDR: Rape makes the victim less capable to survive. Man is less likely to stick around, which impacts the child's ability (and the child's contribution to society). For humanity, fostering and passing on intellectual info is more important than making more humans (which is different from every other animal species on the planet, where rape is a benefit). Finally, forced to deal with a child reduces the victim's ability to contribute to humanity's pool of information.
One objective arguement on the problem with rape, and why it is bad for humanity. Enjoy.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Samurai Rabbit said:
I?ll give you the details: in one of the games story missions, a mission that must be completed in order to advance the plot and thus complete the game, the protagonist Jason Brody is given a ?magic potion? by Citra, the leader of the Rakyat Tribe. Upon consuming the potion Brody experiences hallucinations and after a trip-like gameplay segment Brody awakes during a non -consensual sex act with Citra.
Okay, a brief thing here. First, note, I haven't (yet) played the game and while I watched the video, I couldn't turn on the sound (I'm at work - it was risky enough without the sound).

So here's my questions for you - how do you know your character didn't give consent?

Again, haven't played and couldn't hear, but what I saw looked like two people getting stoned and having sex (of some sort - the boss fight that precedes waking up looked, to me, like a rather obvious metaphor for oral sex).

To be distinct, when two people choose to get stoned and have sex, then it's consensual because they both knew what was coming. This is distinct from the rape version where only one side imbibes the drug and is then raped while unconscious or in an altered state. To me, from the video alone, it appeared that she was stoned as well. Can't be sure, but that was my impression.

Just the "normal" versions make it look kinda of rapey, but if you take the boss fight with the giant snake woman to be stand-in gameplay for a sex scene (to avoid becoming Indigo Prophesy's Press X to Have Sex scene) then things suddenly seem a lot more mutual.

Again, there may be subtext that I'm missing. However, just watching the video, I saw two people getting stoned and having (oral) sex while stoned.

As for the pants issue - meh, it's a video game. The sex scenes in Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 had far more clothes on than that, and we were supposed to believe sex happened then.
 

daveman247

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Paradoxrifts said:
Most of the audience of Far Cry 3 won't believe that Jason Brody was sexually assaulted by a good-looking native woman.

And the reason why is much like that of the audience of Twilight, when they gloss over some of the more worryingly erratic and domineering behaviour that Edward Cullen exhibits as romantic instead of creepy.

Yup, the well known and sad saying of "its only creepy if they are unattractive".

haha, societies messed up :/
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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If it's any consolation the idea of a male character being raped makes me as uncomfortable as female character being raped.
It's pretty disturbing either way.

As to why there wasn't an uproar well it could be that it was hidden away in the game rather than the Lara croft incident that was shown in a trailer quite clearly.

That and of course I wouldn't want to tell guys when they should and shouldn't be offended.

It's kind of messed up that rape is in games at all.
 

Abomination

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Bara_no_Hime said:
So here's my questions for you - how do you know your character didn't give consent?
The entire game is from a first person perspective, there is no mention of relations with Citra at any time before the hallucinations start. The one thing that happens to any person playing it for the first time is surprise that it is occuring.
Again, haven't played and couldn't hear, but what I saw looked like two people getting stoned and having sex (of some sort - the boss fight that precedes waking up looked, to me, like a rather obvious metaphor for oral sex).
There is no evidence that Citra consumed any substance before she engaged in sex with Jason, it could have happened but Jason is not aware of it.
To be distinct, when two people choose to get stoned and have sex, then it's consensual because they both knew what was coming.
Jason most certainly did not know he was going to have sex with Citra before he consumed the potion.
This is distinct from the rape version where only one side imbibes the drug and is then raped while unconscious or in an altered state. To me, from the video alone, it appeared that she was stoned as well. Can't be sure, but that was my impression.
Even if she was stoned, Jason was not aware she was going to be. Jason did not know what the potion would do to him but Citra would. I understand that being under the influence of the same drugs might have excused Citra of rape because she also would not have been in full control of her actions but given how Citra acts it was a surprise she was engaging in sex with Jason but she remained fully in her usual character.

Just the "normal" versions make it look kinda of rapey, but if you take the boss fight with the giant snake woman to be stand-in gameplay for a sex scene (to avoid becoming Indigo Prophesy's Press X to Have Sex scene) then things suddenly seem a lot more mutual.
The hallucination was part symbolisim of the story but it was still from a first person perspective, it was exactly what Jason saw in his mind. He was never consenting to sex, he was fighting for his life.
 

keneth231742

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Yes, the 25 year old party boy Jason goes to Citra for help after days of stress and fighting wearing a tight T-shirt to show off his body, and you want to tell me he wasn't asking for it, hell as he woke up he didn't seem to mined, or say anything. To top it off Citra is the leader of that culture and her right to take him.

So how many people to punch me in the face for saying shit like that? Hopefully all of you. If there is no consent given by a person able to give it, THEN IT IS RAPE simple as that!
 

General Twinkletoes

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Jan 24, 2011
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Adam Jensen said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasm#In_general Second paragraph.

Are you aware that orgasm during rape is a thing? Are you going to tell me that people who orgasmed during rape enjoyed it? The body is designed to give you an orgasm during sex, or to give you a boner when a hot girl is on top of you. That doesn't mean you have to be willing or enjoying it.
 

Auron

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Warachia said:
Kopikatsu said:
Pure democracy is a terrible idea, which is why most democratic countries are some form of democratic republic. The framers of the US constitution were vehemently against the idea of a pure democracy, because all it did was allow the majority to impose their will on the minority, which was considered unacceptable.

Anyway, I would consider it to be largely based in religion. Rape is only bad because people are told that it's bad. Various cultures in history accepted and encouraged rape, so it's not objectively 'evil'. There are many species of animal and insect whose main form of reproduction is rape. Aaaand finally, rape is only a traumatic event because people are told that it's meant to be traumatic.
Wow, this is so unbelievably intentionally ignorant that I'm not even sure how to respond to it, do you even talk to people or do you decide everything based on your own personal opinions?

How exactly did you get to this conclusion? The reason rape is not legal in modern day first world countries is because it IS a traumatic event, and please show me your sources, show me where people have argued that rape is not evil, that rape should be allowed to happen in modern societies, show me psychological studies that prove it isn't traumatic.
Er... That's a cultural trait like he eloquently pointed out. First of all, being "first" world has shit to do with it, the entire western civilization enforces the same basic principles we're practically all cultures descended from or converted to christian backgrounds. Events are only as traumatic as society decides they are, due to our social paradigm that defines sex as it is it's traumatic. Cold cultures with religions not influenced by Christianism and Eastern cultures are the ones you'll find most examples of different views on that particular subject.
 

Warachia

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Auron said:
Er... That's a cultural trait like he eloquently pointed out. First of all, being "first" world has shit to do with it, the entire western civilization enforces the same basic principles we're practically all cultures descended from or converted to christian backgrounds. Events are only as traumatic as society decides they are, due to our social paradigm that defines sex as it is it's traumatic. Cold cultures with religions not influenced by Christianism and Eastern cultures are the ones you'll find most examples of different views on that particular subject.
Saying that rape is traumatic simply because religion or society says it is, is like saying that surgery hurts because you are told it does, the reason we know it's traumatic is because we have traumatized victims. I might as well copy paste my second paragraph though since the question in it still applies.

How exactly did you get to this conclusion? The reason rape is not legal in modern day first world countries is because it IS a traumatic event, and please show me your sources, show me where people have argued that rape is not evil, that rape should be allowed to happen in modern societies, show me psychological studies that prove it isn't traumatic.
 

Casual Shinji

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I really think people are staring themselves blind on the act itself; Whether it's rape or not, it's not supposed to be a positive scene. It's supposed to represent Jason becoming more and more a savage killer, as another poster already noted, becoming seduced by it.

But by all means, continue the whole "game is bad, cuz scene is bad, cuz rape is bad". Then maybe we should also take note of all the endangered animals Jason has been killing the whole game and throw a hissy fit about that as well, huh?
 

OneOfTheMichael's

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1. It's a game
2. They're in the jungle man! Ain't no rules, No laws, when you're in the jungle.
3. Is this really what we do with our time? Discussing a real life issue in the premise of a video game?
 

Commissar Sae

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keneth231742 said:
Yes, the 25 year old party boy Jason goes to Citra for help after days of stress and fighting wearing a tight T-shirt to show off his body, and you want to tell me he wasn't asking for it, hell as he woke up he didn't seem to mined, or say anything. To top it off Citra is the leader of that culture and her right to take him.

So how many people to punch me in the face for saying shit like that? Hopefully all of you. If there is no consent given by a person able to give it, THEN IT IS RAPE simple as that!
Add to the fact that she drugged him into a stupour and you have an even worse scenario.

OT: I rather enjoyed the game and felt that the scene had its place in it. To me it was further proof of Citra using Jason for her own ends and indoctrinating him through any means necessary. Drugs and sex are fairly effective ways to break down a person, and then you start adding on praise and calling him a hero and you've made yourself a loaded weapon you only have to aim at your enemies.