Favourite Fantasy Fiction

Hawki

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So, at work, we're going to be discussing fantasy fiction. As a lead up to the discussion, I went through every fantasy book (and series) I went through where the writing was the primary media (so in other words, this excludes tie-in fiction), and did a ranking. Going to be posting stuff here because:

a) I'm in lockdown, and got plenty of time on my hands.

b) It allows me to collect my thoughts.

c) It'll allow me to get feedback, and may remind me of installments that I've missed.

d) This is based on personal preference more than objective literary merit, though that still factors in

My personal rule is that for inclusion, it has to be a series. So while the list on my desktop has stand-alone novels, here, it has to be part of a series, but it can be included if I've only read a single book in that series. So, having scrounged up a top 30 list, I'll present the following:

36: Malazan

I've only read the first book, and...it's bad. Really bad. Like, I say without exagerattion that it's "broken." The author flings you in straight into the action with no time to get your bearings, and no context given, bar what you can piece together. The author 'justifies' this in his author's note at the start, but I'm sorry, if you're going to throw around proper nouns and other terms like there's no tomorrow, you can't be surprised that the reader has no idea what's going on. Maybe this gets better later, but I've never gone beyond the first book.

35: Medoran Chronicles

Read the first book. It's bad. It's your stock "teenage girl is sucked into fantasy world, and everyone fawns over her, and she's good at everything, and yawn." Got the first book for free, gave it away for free, never dreaming that it would somehow become a series. Bleh.

34: Night Angel

It...was fine? Read some of it, barely remember anything.

33: Kingkiller Chronicle

Read the first book. I hate Kwothe. He's annoying, he's a Gary Stu, and...well, those two by themselves are enough to drag the book down. The world around him isn't that interesting either. Meh.

32: The Dark Tower

I've read the first two books and a graphic novel. The first book is okay, but only as far as setting scene and atmosphere goes. I could barely tell you anything about the characters or plot. The second has the same problem, but takes place in the 'real world,' so I'm even less invested. I get that this is a series that's on slow burn, but after the second, had no desire to return to it.

31: Throne of Glass

Read the first book and...huh. Now I think about it, everything I said about Kingkiller could be said here. Replace Kwothe with Celaena, replace "Gary Stu" with "Mary Sue," replace one dull world with another dull world, and, well, you get this. I guess this is higher because it's at least over faster.

30: Fairy Tail

Read a few volumes, and...well, meh. Characters are okay (even if the females are absurdedly sexualized, because of course they are), but it...I dunno, I just never really got into it. There's no one thing that it does particuarly wrong, but nothing it does particuarly right, either.

29: One Piece

THIS IS A MANGA WHERE PEOPLE TALK VERY LOUDLY AND SHOUT ALL THE TIME

Okay, snark aside, that's my summary of what I've read of One Piece. A lot of people shouting, and fighting, and shouting while fighting, and zzz...I guess the only reason it's not even lower is because there's some fun to be had at least.

28: Stoneheart

So, this is a book that matches an interesting concept (the 'spirits' of London's statues fighting their own war out of sight and out of mind) with bland characters. I read the first two books, and I recall liking the second more, but I really couldn't tell you much about this series.

27: The Amulet

Description pending

26: The Book of Lies

So I read the first two books in this series. The first is pretty decent, the second is one I've almost completely forgotten about, and from what I do recall, it doesn't really follow on from the first in any meaningful way. If anything, it's the inverse of Stoneheart.

25: Skullduggery Pleasant

I've read a single book in this series. Again, it's...fine? Reasonably humorous, but that's all it is. Reasonably humorous.

...next.

24: Elantris

I've read a single entry in this series, namely The Emperor's Soul. It's...fine? Really, that's all I can say. Very slow and meditative, which is, um, fine, but it's, well, fine.

23: Stormlight Archive

So, we get into some weird territory here, where I've read part 1 of book 1, and Edgedancer. And...well, I'm mixed. Stormlight gets a lot of points for worldbuilding and scene-setting. Reading book 1, a lot of time is taken to delve into the nature of the world, how it works, its cultures, etc. However, that's really all it does, as the plot basically doesn't move at all for over 500 pages. I get that this is meant to be a slow burn, but not at the extent of plot development.

On the flipside, Edgedancer is on the oppostite end of the spectrum. Little worldbuilding, but damn it, Lift is awesome. And adorable. Um...adwesome? Awedorable? Yeah, let's go with that.

22: Dinotopia

So, this is a weird entry, in that I've read two books (Windchaser, and one I can't even recall). Dinotopia gets points for the nature of its world, but...it's fine, I guess? Dinotopia kind of feels like a relic of an earlier time - 20th century books having stories with 19th century characters. I bet if I asked kids these days what Dinotopia even was, they'd draw up blanks. And it's arguably a shame, but...I duno, Dinotopia feels antiquated somehow. Still, I had fun with it.

21: The Wheel of Time

I know, I know, sacrilige that this is so low, but I'm sorry, I just don't like WoT. I read the first three books and the New Spring graphic novel, and I still don't like it.

That's not to say it's bad, but, well, Book 1 is basically Lord of the Rings compressed into a single installment, and while the series does get its own identity later on...I'm sorry, I really don't like Jordan's writing style. He has to describe every little thing in excruciating detail, regarldess of pacing. Also, it's arguably this weird mix of trying to mix high fantasy (chosen ones, dark lords) with political intrigue, and I dunno, it just doesn't work for me. Maybe the TV show will.

20: His Dark Materials

So, this is a series I have a very mixed relationship with. One one hand, I agree with its themes. On the other, I can't stand how those themes are expressed. On one hand, it's got creative worldbuilding. On the other hand, Lyra is the one we're seeing it from when we're not seeing it through Will's eyes. On one hand, it's...well, it's mixed, okay? All I can say is that this a case of good idea, flawed execution. If I was ranking these purely on the creativity of their setting, this would be much higher, but as is? Yeah...

19: Discworld

I'm sorry, really. I respect Terry Pratchett. Really, I do. I even did a stage play of Guards, Guards! back at secondary school. But I just can't get into the Discworld books. I've read The Colour of Magic (bleh) and Guards, Guards itself (decent), but...I know, I'm sorry! I think Pratchett is a very good writer, but that comes mostly from Only You Can Save Mankind. Discworld itself? I'm sorry, I just can't get into it.

18: Shannara

If I was ranking these based purely on literary merit, Shannara would be ranked much lower. Brooks is...I'm sorry, he isn't that good a writer. He's not bad, but his plots are recycled, and he has a tendency to simply summarize plot and character rather than interweave them. Show, don't tell, as the saying goes. Also, the Shannara setting itself is kind of wasted. We start off with a Lord of the Rings rip-off via Sword of Shannara, then learn that the Four Lands are really a post-apocalyptic United States, and many of its fantasy creatures are simply human mutations, but it never really goes beyond that. And with the grand finale of the series being nothing of the sort, and the best installment still being the second Shannara book (Elfstones), I'm left with a series that's functional, but that's it. Functional.

Still, it gets the job done. Again, mix of literary merit and personal feelings. Shannara doesn't do anything particuarly well, but it doesn't do anything particuarly poorly either. Sort of. Maybe. I frankly feel guilty having it so high, but I'm still reading Shannara books, even if I've never read a genuinely good one. They're...they're pulp fantasy, alright? That's it.

17: Ranger's Apprentice

So, here we have another situation where my take on the series depends on which books in the series I'm talking about. If we're going to talk about the first book, it's bleh - evil guy wants to do evil things, good guys do good things in preparation to stop evil guy. However, having read some later books in the series, things have improved - more moral ambiguity, and the books have more of an identity. While like a lot of Western fantasy it takes its cues from Medieval Europe, it's far more down to earth. Little, if any magic, with emphasis on realism, such as the discussion of siege tactics. Still a children's book series that I didn't grow up with, so I can't be that invested, but honestly, the series does deserve some credit.

16: Percy Jackson

So, this is a weird one. I've read The Lightning Thief, and it's good...but only "good" in the sense that it's good for its target audience. Not being the target audience, it was meh, but looking at it objectively, as a work specifically designed for YA readers? Yeah, it was good. That's really the only reason the book is this high, because if this was purely subjective, it would be much lower, as I don't particuarly care about PJ, or the wider "Riordanverse," but factoring in objectivity? Yeah, it's decent.

15: Peter Pan

This is arguably a cheat, since Peter Pan isn't really one contiguous series, but rather a single story that's branched off into various other works. But judging the original story and some of those works, it comes here. More based on its tone and themes than anything else. It's not something I'd read for pleasure anytime soon, but factoring in everything else, it comes here.

14: Inheritance

So, I know, you're rolling your eyes. "Inheritance? You mean that Star Wars/Lord of the Rings rip-off by Christopher Paolini? What the hell are you smoking?" Well, to that I ask, have you read beyond Eragon? Because by itself, that book is pretty rote, but as the series progresses, it gets far more of an identity. I can't say I love it, but to be frank, I can't deny how the books are increasingly better written, and get more thematically complex. Far from perfect, but again, I think this series is frankly underrated, or at least, overhated. And while not a defence, what were your writing skills like when you were 16? I mean, I can answer, but, well...

13: Nevermoor

Okay, I've only read some of the first book, but it gets this high because it's absolutely hilarious. It's an interesting setting, but I recall smirking throughout it. Maybe someday I'll be able to read all of it, but for now, this gets to be this high through the comedy factor alone.

12: Artemis Fowl

So, Artemis Fowl. It isn't foul. But I threw in the towel as the series went on. But appraising the series overall, of what I read...yeah, it's pretty good. Excellent premise, memorable characters, and it gets extra points for the nostalgia factor.

11: Deltora Quest

So, I only ever read the first DQ series, so this is judging it purely based on that. And again, if this was based on pure literary merit, it would be lower. Still, grew up with this, remember the stories and characters to this day, and while its world isn't really fleshed out, it does avoid a lot of stock fantasy tropes, with unique races and cultures, rather than your usual elves, dwarfs, and whatnot.

10: Mistborn

This is a weird one, because when I say "Mistborn," you might be asking if I'm referring to Series 1, or Series 2? The reason this is where it is in the list is because I have to balance between Series 1 (which is great) and Series 2 (which is...okay).

Still, I do like Mistborn overall. It's got one of the best fleshed-out magic systems in fantasy fiction, and the first trilogy manages to do something unique in each book (heist, political intrigue, apocalypse), while still being one congruent story. Not one that sticks the landing perfectly, but everything up to that, from its characters, to its world, is stellar. Series 2 is...okay, but...well, if Series 1 is Avatar: The Last Airbender, Series 2 is Legend of Korra, and not just because of the time jump and improvements in technology. Still good, but not as good.

9: Thursday Next

Okay, serious question - why isn't Jasper Fforde more well known? He's Terry Pratchett 2.0 in my mind, in that he's got a deft touch for absurdist writing, and making it engaging. Only unlike Discworld, I could actually get into the Thursday Next series. Only read a handful of books, but they're absolutely hilarious.

8: Wizard of Oz

Betcha didn't know The Wizard of Oz was a series, did you? Oh wait, you did? Um, well...

Anyway, this book gets to be this high in large part due to nostalgia factor, but even that aside, I think the book remains very solid. Creative setting, good themes, etc.

7: The Wind on Fire

Back in the 2000s, I once said that this was one of the best series of fantasy books ever written. From a purely objective standpoint, no, I don't think that's the case. Still, since this is a mix of literary merit with personal preference, WoF gets to be this high regardless...but mainly because of its first two books. Book 1 is an excellent take on a caste system based on intellectual merit. Characters are solid, world is solid, themes are solid, etc. Book 2, the best in the series, extends on the themes of the former by delving into slavery and the nature of freedom. Book 3 is...well, it's fine, I guess? Really, if I was to sum up a core theme or idea from Book 3, I couldn't, since it's mainly a conclusion to an overall story.

Still, solid work.

6: Rowan of Rin

Again, subjective list, people. I know these are kids' books. I know that RoR's been completely overshadowed by Deltora Quest, despite being by the same author and in the same shared universe. Peh. But even that aside, the books are solid, and I'd arguably far more thematically rich than DQ. Themes of heroism, nature vs. nurture, etc. At least for kids, I can't reccommend these books enough.

5: The Chronicles of Narnia

Another bunch of children's books here, but these get to be higher because I think CoN does have literary merit, while also being highly accessible. You can read them as Christian allagory, or as simple fantasy. Either way, through a combination of theme, nostalgia, and personal appraisal, they get to be this high.

...but seriously, Book 7 is bleh.

4: King Arthur

This is arguably cheating, and arguably doesn't count as fantasy fiction. Like, are real-world mythologies "fantasy fiction," or are they something else? I'm not including Greek mythology on this list after all. That said, I'm counting King Arthur because it's had a literary tradition built around it that I feel is close enough to the fantasy genre (as I understand it) while mythologies of cultures really belong on their own lists. So, if I'm amalgamating every King Arthur work I've read, plus personal feelings, plus its influence on fantasy, then I'm placing it here.

3: Harry Potter

...

...

...it's Harry Potter. Do I even need to explain why it's this high?

2: A Song of Ice and Fire

Again, do I need to explain?

Okay, fine. ASoIaF gets to be this high because, among other things, it's got excellent characters, excellent writing (well, mostly), an insanely well fleshed out world, and for me at least, was an absolute breath of fresh air in the fantasy genre. I'm sure you can point to other works that are free of the fantasy tropes Tolkein pioneered, but even that aside, ASoIaF is stellar.

Which leaves us with:

1: Lord of the Rings

Alright, truth be told, I don't actually enjoy reading the LotR books that much. I think they're stellar in of themselves, but not books I'd want to read lightly. But factoring in everything, from personal feelings, to literary merit, to its influence on the genre, to everything from The Hobbit to The Silmarillion, I mean, I can't really rank anything higher than this. Maybe by pure personal enjoyment, sure, but factoring in everything else? Yeah. Half a century on, and the genre's still in LotR's shadow.

So yeah, that's just me. Comment, make your own list, tell me how wrong (or right) I am, at least now I've got something I can turn to.
 
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Drathnoxis

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Why does it have to be a series?

I haven't read most of your list but I would Discworld a lot higher and Inheritance Cycle a lot lower. Narnia I would definitely put lower, I don't even really remember if the rest of the series was that good because the last book was so terrible and all I think of when I think of the series is how it was all a religious allegory and dying in a train crash is supposed to be the happy ending. I'd probably like to bump LOTR down from top spot, but I'm not really sure what should go in its place. I might put HP there, just because I loved those books so much as a kid, but The Deathly Hallows is quite bad and just makes a complete mess of the ending.

The only other Fantasy Series I've read that aren't on the list are some of the Xanth books by Pierce Anthony which, re-reading a few recently are so terrible they would be pretty close to King Killer Chronicles and Inheritance Cycle. Then there are The Song of the Lioness and The Immortals series, both by Tamora Pierce, which I remember liking a lot as a kid, but I haven't read them since 8th grade and are youth fiction so would probably end up around the middle of the list. Does The Hunger Games count as Fantasy? As a single installment I'd put it pretty high, but considering as a series probably would drop it down to upper middle. Then there's the Iron Elves trilogy, which was ok 'dark fantasy', but just that. Middle of the list. Also I read The Merlin Conspiracy which the second in a series, I guess, it was middle of the road youth fantasy, lower middle.
 

Baffle

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I don't really read that much any more, but Robin Hobb's stuff is better than a lot of that list IMO.
 

Hawki

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Why does it have to be a series?
I think stand-alone fantasy works and series-based fantasy works occupy different niches. The former has the chance to do worldbuilding on a scale that the latter doesn't.

Narnia I would definitely put lower, I don't even really remember if the rest of the series was that good because the last book was so terrible and all I think of when I think of the series is how it was all a religious allegory and dying in a train crash is supposed to be the happy ending.
Last Battle is my least favourite as well, but it doesn't retroactively drag the rest of the series down for me.

TBH, the train crash part isn't my main gripe with Last Battle. If I had to sum it up, it would be:

-How it handles Susan and the dwarfs - allagory for loss of faith that doesn't work in-universe.

-The sense of a lack of climax. This is meant to be the equivalent of Judgement Day, and instead of Hell, and demons, and whatever else, we get...a Calormene invasion. Yay...

-By extension, literal deus ex machina. I know, I know, Christian allagory, but that doesn't make for good writing in of itself.

The thing about the books prior is that prior to Last Battle, they still functioned as stories regardless of allagory. Last Battle, however, puts allagory first, and it comes at the expense of the plot.

I might put HP there, just because I loved those books so much as a kid, but The Deathly Hallows is quite bad and just makes a complete mess of the ending.
Deathly Hallows is definitely my least favourite of the original series, but then there's also Cursed Child, so...

Does The Hunger Games count as Fantasy?
Sci-fi, IMO. It explicitly takes place in a post-apocalyptic North America.

I mean, so does Shannara, but ones has elves, and one doesn't, so...

As a single installment I'd put it pretty high, but considering as a series probably would drop it down to upper middle.
Odd. For me, both the books and the films, they get better as they go on, not worse.
 

09philj

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I haven't really read any fantasy since I stopped reading children's' books. There's not really anything that interests me; sacrilegiously for a British geek, I don't even like Terry Pratchett. Even where comics are concerned, sci fi and drama take precedence. I'd quite like to give The Wheel of Time a go but there's a lot of other media I'm more compelled to try.

I do have an abiding love for the visual novel version of Fate/Stay Night, which is deeply silly and does often drift into being quite portentous, but manages to balance it out with quite powerful overall arcs and moments of darkness that make me feel genuinely queasy. Also the character of Saber is brilliant on every level. The only anime figurine I own is one of her.
 

happyninja42

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I don't really read that much any more, but Robin Hobb's stuff is better than a lot of that list IMO.
*furious cat hiss* Ok you and I tend to see eye to eye on most things, but on THIS point you and I must draw blades and fight to the death sir! Fuck Robin Hobb! :p

OT:
I don't really enjoy much Fantasy anymore, and have found I'm definitely more of a scifi kid at my heart.

But, I'm going to include Urban Fantasy in this, as it's got demons and magic and elves and shit...just, in a modern setting.

Dresden Files - While I was very underwhelmed with the last 2 titles he released, the series overall has had more emotional impact for me, than probably any other series I've read.

If we include isekai settings in this list, then there is the entire LitRPG genre (VRMMORPGs but Fantasy setting), which I have fallen in love with for the past few years. They vary wildly in quality, but hey, the actual story itself takes place in a fantasy setting...it's just a video game people are playing. A lot of them fully transport the person to live in this new world, so for all real purposes, it IS a fantasy series.

With that in mind, I've fallen in love with Eric Ugland's 2 series "Good Guy Series" and "Bad Guy Series" Both follow 2 dudes from our world, that get sent to the game world due to strange circumstances, that imply it's not a fabricated world, but that they are part of a larger thing going on. Regardless, they're very fun reads.

Let's see, more traditional choices. I enjoyed the Shanarra series for the longest time as a kid.

Oh! The Dragonriders of Pern series was a foundational aspect of my childhood, probably the single most influential series I can think of. I distinctly remember the situation where I found one of those books in 2nd grade. Really changed my life as a kid
 

JUMBO PALACE

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Here's a recommendation - The Black Company. I've seen many refer to it as one of the progenitors of "grim dark" fantasy. It's extremely grounded and reads more like war fiction than traditional fantasy. Bad dudes doing questionable things just to survive while somehow always coming out on top of the likeability index.
 

Baffle

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*furious cat hiss* Ok you and I tend to see eye to eye on most things, but on THIS point you and I must draw blades and fight to the death sir! Fuck Robin Hobb! :p
TBF, when I've read some of it again a little later in life it isn't as good as it was at the time, but I think I'll always love the original Farseer trilogy (a little too much weird shoehorning of magic used to allow the final Fitz/Fool series to go ahead IMO).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I swear to god, I'm gonna have to start loading Delicious in Dungeon into a t-shirt cannon and start shooting it at people.

Witch Hat Atelier is fantastic as well.
 

Agema

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Here's a recommendation - The Black Company. I've seen many refer to it as one of the progenitors of "grim dark" fantasy. It's extremely grounded and reads more like war fiction than traditional fantasy. Bad dudes doing questionable things just to survive while somehow always coming out on top of the likeability index.
I fear if the OP did not like Malazan, he's not going to like The Black Company. I think Glen Cook is clearly a major influence for Steven Erikson.

* * *

So, I guess my favourites fantasy series by some way are Gormenghast (Mervyn Peake) and Lyonesse (Jack Vance).

As I think on it, I often don't value fantasy series very highly these days, even though I read a lot of fantasy: too many seem to be kind of ho-hum, rolling through stock settings and cliches. It's often authors doing standalone books I find more interesting. Interesting is a really major thing: I've found I've read enough dudes with magic swords and dragons and dark lords and so on that it's hard to really get stoked up about them.

But some others I'd rate higher than normal:

LoTR - JRR Tolkein (well, why not).
Babel series - Josiah Bancroft (As yet incomplete. But it's very good.)
Malazan - Steven Erikson / Ian Esselmont. (I can totally sympathise with why the OP hates this. Very few concessions to reader understanding of what's going on.)
Song of Fire & Ice - George RR Martin (like LoTR, an obvious pick)
The First Law - Joe Abercrombie (cynical and funny)
Orokon - Tom Arden. (This is a curio - it'll be very hard to get hold of these days. It is in ways not good, but it was trying to do something distinctly different. The author's standalone novel "The Translation of Bastian Test" is one of my favourite SF&F books... if it even is SF&F, which is not clear)
Ketty Jay - Chris Wooding (Light-hearted, scoundrel adventure. It's not high art, but it's fun)
Book of the Old Sun - Gene Wolfe. (Don't remember it so well, but I remember really enjoying it at the time)
 

Breakdown

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Off hand, I'd recommend --

The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander. I read them back to back a year or so ago after reading them as a kid. They really stand up.

The Abarat books by Clive Barker. Really creative books.

David Gemmell books, in particular Sword in the Storm and Midnight Falcon.

The First Law books by Joe Abercrombie.

Bernard Cornwell's Warlord trilogy. I'm blurring the line between fantasy and historical fiction, but this is the best version of the King Arthur story I've read.

I'm also currently reading the Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny.
 
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AnxietyProne

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The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander. I read them back to back a year or so ago after reading them as a kid. They really stand up.
*Fistbump*

Though I'm all but completely out of sword and sorcery fiction, that was the book series that got me into fantasy, period, as a kid. I still have the old yellow boxed set from Yearling press.
 
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Dalisclock

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The Book of the New Sun series.

This is a weird series that I kinda dug. It's a wierd mix of Sci-fi and Fantasy that takes place in the far, far future where the sun is dying(so much that the idea of a bright sun that lights up the sky is alien to people) and earth has more or less regressed into barbarism partially because most of the resources are gone. Some old(futuristic) tech to us is still around and people occasionally mention spacecraft but earth is more or less a backwater and has nothing to offer anyone so nobody really comes to visit anymore.

It's told from the POV of a kid who starts as a member of the Torturers guild and eventually becomes, essentially the Emperor(though of his small corner of the world) and finds out he's THE CHOSEN ONE to bring a new sun to renew the world and such. However, he doesn't really understand that much of what he's seeing so a lot of details are mentioned but not elaborated on. Oh, and there's time travel near the end. And then Angels show up or something like that.

There are a number of hints that not only is the MC/Narrator unreliable, but that the setting is so far in the future that the words they're using aren't particularly accurate, because we don't have words for certain things the narrator is trying to describe to the reader. Which only adds to the surreal mystery that kinda permeates this whole thing in the background. It's also one of the reasons it'd be hard to film because you have to show all of this instead of an unreliable narrator telling you in his words. There's a lot of mind screw across the entire series, enough to make Evangelion feel straightforward(and there's a fair bit of religion in this, but it's based off the Author's own Catholicism but with a far future fantasy sci-fi twist to it)

It's really wierd, the pacing is a bit slow at times and a number of things feel not well explained, which gives an air of mystery despite the interesting worldbuilding inherent. So while it's far from perfect, I did stick with it and got a kick out of it.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I really liked The Wheel of Time and The Sword of Truth series. Each were long ass fantasy books that blow Game of Thrones out of the water imo.
 

Baffle

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I don't care what the author thinks. His books were fun to read.
Thought, he's dead. Anyway, if you like the books it's quite possible you'll like what he has to say anyway, his books push his ideology apparently (I say apparently because it's many many years since I read one so I can't really say whether that's correct).
 

CriticalGaming

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Thought, he's dead. Anyway, if you like the books it's quite possible you'll like what he has to say anyway, his books push his ideology apparently (I say apparently because it's many many years since I read one so I can't really say whether that's correct).
It is fantasy fiction. If it pushes his ideology it fails in doing so because i just enjoyed the journey.

Didnt know he died though. Apparently he died late 2020 to unknown causes.