FBI Deals Out Major Online Poker Sites

[DevilWolf47]

Poker is a game of skill? Right. And i possess eight ten meter long prehensile dicks.

Poker is a game of skill. Yes, it has a 'luck of the draw' factor, but so does Scrabble, Magic The Gathering, Uno, Monopoly and dozens of other games that rely on dice rolls or random card draws. No-one would argue those games are games of luck.

Luck of the draw isn't simply "A factor" it's THE DECIDING FACTOR. Remembering the incredibly layout of a deck of playing cards and the possible hands and the odds of drawing what you need isn't a major skill, it's basic mathematics.

 

[Connor Lonske]

The house may always win, but the law always owns the winnings.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Fuck anti-gambling laws. Don't get me wrong, I wish that we didn't have the Capitalist system that facilitates gambling being a thing, but if we are going to have a "free market" let people do what they want with the money they have. One thing that above all else I cannot tolerate in a system of laws is inconsistency, and that is exactly what anti-gambling laws are when you have a free market system.

I'm pretty sure "free market" is a Republican thing, which never even really works out all that well (see teabaggers).

OT: So the USA is cool with being home to the world's biggest gambler paradise evar, but they hate online gambling? I guess they got jealous at all the jack the companies were raking in.

 

[Legion]

Anyway, everyone knows PKR is the best online poker game

I am glad I didn't switch over to Full Tilt like I considered now, I still have PKR for when I feel like playing at least.

 

[JDKJ]

Fuck anti-gambling laws. Don't get me wrong, I wish that we didn't have the Capitalist system that facilitates gambling being a thing, but if we are going to have a "free market" let people do what they want with the money they have. One thing that above all else I cannot tolerate in a system of laws is inconsistency, and that is exactly what anti-gambling laws are when you have a free market system.

I'm pretty sure "free market" is a Republican thing, which never even really works out all that well (see teabaggers).

OT: So the USA is cool with being home to the world's biggest gambler paradise evar, but they hate online gambling? I guess they got jealous at all the jack the companies were raking in.

I don't think they mind the jack that's being raked in as much as they're not happy about being unable to tax the piss outta that jack.

 

[cerebus23]

FUnny that poker is considered pure luck but lotteries are allowed to be run by states, this is just another power grab by the feds, while poker in whatever form has a decided bit of luck involved, there is certainly a good bit of skill also certainly more skill then dropping 10 20 50 dollars in lottery tickets and hope to get lucky by getting the right numbers.

Lest on these sites you cna play purely for free and are not required to put money in or play for real money. If they had every noob that shows up to play put money in then i would see a problem but you can learn exactly what is invoved in poker by playing for free so there it is a bit laughable that you can claim people do not know the risks involved in poker or any game of chance, poker has a distinct advantage of lest weighing your risk vs reward vs many other games of chance.

Well, the "run by states" part is the big clincher.

What a lot of people don't "get" about regulations on vice is that in a lot of cases it's not about the activity itself, but what tends to go with it. Gambling by it's very nature is VERY difficult to police, and leads to all manner of scams being run by "the house" and of course predatory loan sharking, and all kinds of similar things. People can deny what goes on around gambling, but as someone who worked in security for TWO differant world class casinos for a decade or so, I can say that the garbage that goes with gambling is pervasive and even legitimizing it as much as possible you can't keep the rot away.

Poker isn't really a game of skill, as some people have pointed out, no matter how well you understand probabilities there is still a massive element of chance. What's more, it's a VERY easy game to exploit in terms of using shills, proposition players, and similar techniques, especially online. A lot of the risk of running an online poker business can be mitigated by just having people, or bots, playing in risky games using the house's money to begin with to greatly increase the odds of the money being taken by the house as opposed to one of the actual players.

It's sort of like prostitution, on the surface you can argue that it's reasonable for someone to decide what to do with their own body. However when you start getting into the nature of those kinds of services, disagreements over payment, providing when and if services were rendered in a satisfactory fashion, and of course the societal pressures around the idea of sex and these ladies operating openly and what they do being known, combined with the desire on the part of clients for secrecy, and everything else, it creates massive messes that go beyond the central issue involved.

With things like a state lottery, we have the authorities themselves running things, and tons of watchdog groups keeping an eye on it from a lot of differant directions. It's a far differant situation than what you see in a casino, or people running back room poker games.

Another example of an exception besides the lotteries is of course racing, horse and dog tracks are run legitimatly all over the country. Due to the nessicary scale of the operations, it makes them relatively easy to keep an eye on. However at the same time, those kinds of establishments DO become hotbeds of criminal activitity even with those eyes on them, especially in terms of things like loan sharking. As a result there is a lot of pressure in places to have them shut down.

With the state lotto, it's largely beyond criticism because really, there is little you can do around it other than try and find a way to rig the game itself. Nobody is going to run a loan sharking or book keeping operation around lottery tickets. There just isn't enough of an investment on the part of the individual players.

Well the mob ran the numbers back in the day aka lottery. You can argue that the rates credit card companies charge are well and truely more blatant gouging of peoples wallets than anything the mob ran loansharking. And you can argue that dog and horse racing is inhumaine to the animals being used for sport.

Many studies show that state lotteries hit the poorest people that cannot afford to play the lottery in hopes of winning big. And many studies on poker show over the long haul people that play the game by the book so to speak win more and consistantly than the people that just play whatever cards fall in their lap and make silly bets and calls. Yea luck does have alot to do in poker, but still you if you know your odds with any given hand, know what the stakes are and know how much you can afford to risk on any given hand vs pot odds, and number of outs for your hole cards, speaking texas hold'em as i am a texas player.

Look people like these games, people like to play for free and on poker stars you can play free as much as you want with no risk, there is no gun to anyones head saying you must invest to have fun. Or that you cannot put 50 dollars in and play the nickle tables for small stakes to have some enjoyment. YOu can play no limit or limit you have all sorts of options that are not going to harm anyone if you keep within your means and use your head.

The biggest gripe the feds have is that there is billions in online poker that they are not getting a cut of. Many states have outlawed home games that would go in in fire depts and the like, because god forbid people have some fun on the weekends playing poker rather than blowing your paycheck on lottery funds that go to the state directly.

And i doubt the locals are going to start a criminal enterprise around home games in their town. I also doubt that in normal tables there is much rigging going on, and if there is i can move to a new table out of the 100s or 1000s. I also doubt that in a free roll tournament with about 4000 people per that anyone can stack a turney to skew an outcome, to win 10 seats for a pay event.

Yea playing tables online i have seen odd patterns between groups of players and i take my chips and leave the table, or sit out, or hope i get a big hand to take one of both of them out. I have all sorts of options online vs a private game i can leave when i want for whatever reason and just pop over to to a new table, something i cannot do in a private game.

And for my money all this anti poker by the states and the feds just comes down to they want that money in their pockets vs your or someone elses pockets. Rather than some overwhelming concern for fair play and possible criminal activities. There is no altruistic motives on the governments side, when they raid places like this, its is just money pure and simple.

 

[PolarBearClub]

All the more for me! I just downloaded the .co.uk version of FullTilt instead (I'm from Ireland) and it worked fine. Took down $180 in two games, which I would partly attribute to the decrease in American players and therefore a diluting in the talent of the current players. However, over the past couple of days I've still played Americans, so there are ways around everything.

I'm also in the camp that Poker is a game of skill, noticeable by the fact that I have improved since I began about 10 months ago. Someone earlier mentioned Blackjack and being able to count cards, well professional poker players know the odds of virtually every hand, even after the flop, which makes it a game of some skill. It's also possible to determine other peoples' hands by their playing patterns: how much they bet at particular times, etc.

Of course luck is a factor. If I'm holding two aces (the best pre-flop hand in texas hold 'em) and go all in, and someone calls with a 2 and a 7 (the worst, both based on the statistical probability of winning), I will win somewhere between 80-90% of the time. The other part is the luck factor which would result in my opponent winning.