I don't think you should be giving such specific information about yourself on the internet, that's very dangerous.
Feds are reportedly abducting people in portland
- Thread starter Worgen
- Start date
Don't make presumptions about what I have, have not, am, or am not doing with regards to these protests, locally or otherwise.
In case you have yet to notice, simply being on the street and protesting is putting oneself in harm's way regardless what one is wearing or how they are protesting. Tear gas and pepper sprays don't have IFF's, and if cops are openly firing upon news crews as they have consistently in most major cities including the metropolitan area I live in, you can be damn sure they're not making distinctions between "protesters" and "rioters" or whatever nonsense is being employed this week to justify mass state-perpetrated violence this week as has been repeatedly demonstrated for the past fifty days consecutively. Hell, given the number of members of the press, bystanders, commuters, and homeless that have been caught up in police violence, targeted, apprehended, and/or harmed, during these protests, one doesn't even need to be a protester to be in harm's way.
Spare me your moralizing.
I'm not going to defend the reputations of armed people protesting pandemic restrictions, you could quite fairly call that political larping.
If the feds were intervening in a 50 day long protest for racial equality in literally any other major city in America, I might take it seriously, but Portlandia is Portlandia for good reason. It's the whitest city of its size in the US, and it's full of hipsters with ridiculous politics and even more ridiculous ideas on activism.
Apologies. I understood what you meant. It's my reasoning that the people these 'Feds' would try to nab wouldn't be your typical 'storm the government', 'you can take my ar-15 away from me over my dead body', 'We need a militia to protect from over reach by the government' sort of people.
Those people who believe that stuff are probably at home thinking that it's about time that someone took the protesters off of the street.
I’m already a registered DSA member, if they’re gonna start arresting random Oregonian leftists I’m already fucked for other reasons.
No he can’t because his idea of Portland is informed by a TV show by SNL writers
Edit- that being said, Oregon is a disproportionately white state due to the legacy of colonialism. The public property granted during the 1800’s to settlers was exclusively granted to white men, the state was setup as a whites only free soil state, and the police were heavily infiltrated by the KKK to enforce sundown laws and the like during the 20’s to 50’s. Finally, the redlining and economic inequalities of the Civil Rights era meant that when the migration of Californians to Oregon fleeing the expansion of LA occurred, the ones who could afford to live in the Willamette valley that now make up the majority of the population of Oregon were mostly white.
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Until you read the fine print. Oregon doesn't honor reciprocity, has a certification requirement for concealed carry, and permits are issued at the discretion of county sheriff's offices.
They’re absurdly easy to get, and “reciprocity“ stand your ground laws are utterly idiotic. They cause more deaths than saved lives, always have always will. You can still easily get an AR and hundreds of rounds, and easily carry it around in public (open carry is completely legal of course).
Good news, the Portland Police will not continue to collaborate with federal authorities. They won’t stop them, they actually won’t do anything differently at all, but the Feds are no longer allowed in their clubhouse because the Portland Police respect the rights of the people of Portland to only be extra-judiciously brutalized by cops with electric tape over their names and badge numbers, rather than cops who don’t wear their names or badge numbers.
Gotcha
I guess really what it depends on is if these are just "we're grabbing random protesters to try to put the Fear of God into them" or if they are actively targeting specific people (from what I've read, it sounds like they were after specific people, not just choosing "at random").
But even if they are targeting specific people, I think people have underestimated how much George Floyd and the sheer turmoil we've been dealing with for the past few months has changed things. Granted, it is anecdotal but I know a handful of people whose opinions on guns and gun ownership has shifted with everything going on. Basically deciding "Hey, if Trump does go nutter butters, maybe I should have a gun...". It's probably correct to think that a Left leaning protesters are less likely to have a gun than the Right leaning protesters but it's not zero. Especially in America, it is not a zero percent chance that the guy they're going to try to grab next is going to panic from the two random weirdos trying to force him into their unmarked van and decides to pull out his piece and defend himself.
We'll find out when and if some of these folks racking up disorderly, disrupting, failure to disperse, and resisting charges apply for CHL's, won't we. But, I suppose the irony of vesting the power in choosing who gets to concealed carry, in the hands of those citizens are most likely to need defense from, is lost here.
Oh. Ok that’s fair, most of these bullshit charges are just meant to make their lives difficult until they’re dropped anyway. Just assumed you were playing some bullshit culture wars game.
And what happens when right-wing extremists figure out this is free real estate for dressing up in their tacticool best and committing hate crimes, anteing up on the assumption their lack of visual distinction from federal law enforcement will shield them from reprisal?
According to this Wapo article, they just drove them to a courthouse jail. Huh sounds oddly anti-climactic. Also, they are CBP agents.
Edit: Also a violation of the first amendment.
Edit: Also a violation of the first amendment.
Not surprising. CBP is about the lowest you can go on the federal law enforcement totem pole without resorting to the prison bureau.
It's also helpful that due to Supreme Court rulings and DOJ/DHS policies, they technically have extra-constitutional authority anywhere and everywhere within 100 miles of any "border" including the ocean and international airports.
Counterpoint, notice this only seems to be happening in states with restrictive carry laws and weak stand-your-ground/castle doctrine provisions, and against groups hostile to policing but simultaneously generally anti-gun. I strongly doubt feds would be as willing to cruise around in unmarked non-standard vehicles, looking for people to pluck off the streets without proper identification, probable cause, or due process, in states where people can (and probably would) legally open fire in self defense. Note when CBP/ICE pulls this shit in "if somebody attacks you feel free to blow their ass away" states, they roll in clearly identified and licensed agency vehicles, wear uniforms that clearly signify both agency and law enforcement status, and have their badges/identification on outermost layer.
As far as I can tell this series of decisions has been made with one distinct purpose: to make it impossible for people to tell the difference between law enforcement and violent right-wing extremists.
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I was wondering to myself "So, if they're not IDing themselves as police, what exactly is stopping someone from trying to defend themselves with deadly force?"
Because that's gonna make an interesting court case if/when it does happen.
The acting head of Homeland Security(because why confirm these people when you can just appoint them) sounds like he's pretty much on board with this shit. https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/A...ment-criticizing-local-leaders-571805141.html
Also, I'm not sure why they think is this going to de-escalate the situation at all. Instead it just seems to be amping people up more.
As far as I can tell this series of decisions has been made with one distinct purpose: to make it impossible for people to tell the difference between law enforcement and violent right-wing extremists.
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I was wondering to myself "So, if they're not IDing themselves as police, what exactly is stopping someone from trying to defend themselves with deadly force?"
Because that's gonna make an interesting court case if/when it does happen.
The acting head of Homeland Security(because why confirm these people when you can just appoint them) sounds like he's pretty much on board with this shit. https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/A...ment-criticizing-local-leaders-571805141.html
He makes it sound like the Battle of Berlin has been going on for nearly two months, where it's mostly been fireworks, rock throwing and graffiti on the protestor side. Shit that does not require feds in armored trucks and unmarked cars.
Also, I'm not sure why they think is this going to de-escalate the situation at all. Instead it just seems to be amping people up more.
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Well the good news is tonight the protests were mostly in north Portland around the North Precinct and the police union building, so less random vans tonight and more normal police vs protester shit, with the addition of a fire in the union building (looks like it was a flare from photos, so rather minor). Escalation has clearly occurred on the part of the very obviously very angry crowd, but they’ve made the wise decision to move far away from the courthouse and focus on the police union which is a more comprehensible target. The more mixed news is tomorrow there’s a planned march on the ICE facility, which will obviously go swimmingly.
Edit- nevermind, it’s just that all the journalists and organizers I follow were in North Portland, there was a sizable protest at the courthouse including a line of unarmed women calling themselves the “Wall of Moms” and they’re getting fucked up of course. Great.
Edit- nevermind, it’s just that all the journalists and organizers I follow were in North Portland, there was a sizable protest at the courthouse including a line of unarmed women calling themselves the “Wall of Moms” and they’re getting fucked up of course. Great.
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Yes. Tonight the crowd lighting dumpster fires and blocking doors at the courthouse is made up largely of unaffiliated middle class white women. That, contrary to the accusations of various fash adjacent hacks, is not normal for Portland, where typically these crowds are made up of younger male students as well as the unemployed and homeless in the wake of COVID, though organizers are typically more diverse than the crowd. The organizers went to a different part of the city and crowds still showed up at the courthouse. Snatching people in vans has made more Portlanders extremely mad.
Also appearing tonight, this seemingly pretty cool dude who was somewhere across the line defined as “federal property” by the dudes beating him. Looks to be older and at least trying to be seen as a vet. Honestly excellent civil disobedience provided he follows up with lawsuits.