Fighting game rosters, is bigger better, or is less more?

themistermanguy

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As the fighting game genre evolves, major fighting franchises are expected to have bigger and bigger rosters, especially once DLC and updates come into the picture. Some modern fighting games, like the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, have a whopping 65+ characters. But is a bigger roster necessarily a better roster?

A common argument against big rosters is that the game gets harder to balance, as you have to worry about each character each time you balance the game. However, I believe the opposite is true. Bigger rosters are actually easier to balance than smaller ones, simply due to counter picks. Counter picking is a huge component of fighting games, as it let's you change your strategy to exploit your opponent character's weak-points to gain an advantage, adding a flavor of Rock-paper scissors to the game. This means that as a roster gets bigger, a character simply gets more potential counters to their weak-points, thus the invisible nature of counter-picking does most of the game's balancing itself. Meaning the developers can focus more on buffing low-tier characters, or nerfing ones deemed too powerful by the community with each patch.

While not technically a fighting game, Blizzard's Overwatch shares many elements of the genre in its core gameplay, and counter-picking plays a much bigger role there since the game allows you to change characters mid spawn, thus letting you change your strategy on the fly, while you have to wait until after the match to swap off in most actual fighting games. Several new characters were added, and the meta has changed so much because the inclusion of more new characters created new counter pick possibilities, thus not as much work needs to be done when balancing.
 

Silvanus

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Rock-Paper-Scissors might be well balanced, but it's a repetitive and uninspiring experience, which is why people rarely actually play it for fun.

Bigger is better for fighting game rosters. More choices means more diversity of playstyles, which in turns means less predictability and more likelihood that people will be able to go with something that suits them.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Uniqueness is key. This is why arc system works games with smaller but completely unique rosters tends to be some of the deepest games around.
 

Bad Jim

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Counter picking is bad. It's not fun to lose just because your opponent counter picked you. What you really want is for all matchups to be reasonably balanced. And it's a lot easier to balance all matchups when there aren't too many of them.
 

Drathnoxis

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Ideally you would have a fighting game with a roster consisting of every popular character from anything ever.
 

PapaGreg096

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Silvanus said:
Rock-Paper-Scissors might be well balanced, but it's a repetitive and uninspiring experience, which is why people rarely actually play it for fun.

Bigger is better for fighting game rosters. More choices means more diversity of playstyles, which in turns means less predictability and more likelihood that people will be able to go with something that suits them.
Yeah but more choice also means that characters will play similar to another.

On-Topic I believe less is more and that a standard for a fighting game should be at least 12 character
 

Yoshi178

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Drathnoxis said:
Ideally you would have a fighting game with a roster consisting of every popular character from anything ever.
So basically Super Smash Bros lol
 
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Drathnoxis said:
Ideally you would have a fighting game with a roster consisting of every popular character from anything ever.
Far from ideal, since so many characters would mean many moves would simply repeat.
 

wings012

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I'm not sure if counter picking is a good thing to have in a 1v1 fighting game. It doesn't actually make it truly balanced when a match begins - whoever is being counter picked against loses. In tournaments, then the best player might not necessarily win - just whoever got the best matchups. If you get to pick more than one character then maybe it could be a thing?

I also find that fighting games with a lot of characters end up having clones. Most famously there's Ryu and Ken, not to say they don't have differences and it kinda depends which SF we're talking about. But rather than having characters with really similar animations and movesets, isn't better to have something a bit more different entirely? Or instead of separating them out into different characters, have a mechanic where you select a 'style' which alters your parameters of your character to favour certain styles of play or whatever.
 

Saelune

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Ideally they would keep building on themselves. Like, each new game would keep the same roster and same general playstyle of last game and add new ones. I love Mortal Kombat, but it is hard to have a 'main' in that series since they change so often, both cast and playstyle.

Street Fighter keeps the characters styles mostly consistent...until that mess called V, but unless you like Ryu, it is hard to know if your character will show up.
 
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I think there is a sweet spot for these kinds of games where there is a right number that's higher than "not many" but lower than "too many". I will reference the SF2 family of games as it is still likely the best 2D fighter there has ever been.

The original SF2 had 8 playable characters (each with two costumes) and 4 bosses who were only opponents. SF2 Turbo added these 4 bosses as playable characters for a total of 12 playable characters and the final evolution, Super Street Fighter 2 (Turbo) introduced 4 more entirely new characters bringing the roster up to 16.

Now when there were 8 characters, each was clearly defined and had a good mix of abilities which were varied and could be memorised. Playing it in depth, we could memorise all a characters moves and have experience in how to fight other combantants. Going to 12 I don't think hurt it a great deal, particularly since the 4 bosses were already in the base game and we knew their moves. The four new ones (Dee Jay, Cammy, T.Hawk, Fei Long and arguably Akuma) weren't as well received and I'll admit it messed the game about a bit but I think was overall a good thing. As a player of prior games, it wasn't hard to adjust to the new ones since the moves were similar and playstyles had analogues already.

So my answer about roster sizes is that the correct answer is no less than eight and probably no more than sixteen to twenty max. More than that is too many. Too many characters to learn, too many to add any real personality to them, too many to learn how to counter and all the moves, etc. I'd rather a rich, vibrant and detailed cast with personality and well defined styles than more for the sake of more. It's easier to have favourites, disagreements over how my favourite is better than your favourite, how a good X player would always beat Y player, etc, etc.

I don't mind larger casts mind you, I just think more isn't necessarily better. It might be fun to have the odd X vs Y crossover game with say 12-16 from each of two different franchises, and they do those tag team things as well f.ex. But SF2 and it's ultimate incarnation were sublime. So 12-20 tops would be my suggestion.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Counterpicking doesn't really work in most high level deep fighting games cause you can only get so good in X amount of time and usually someone who has mastered a single char will win even if he is fighting a bad MU vs someone who is spreading his time around various chars. The only exceptions are REALLY unbalanced fighters where you have matchups beyond the 6-4 rate where it's just suffering for one char, but most games I play thankfully don't have any such ones.
 

themistermanguy

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I?d love to see the next MK with a 15-18 character limit. Of course there will be DLC, but trying to balance even half of that is a nightmare. 24+ characters is nice on paper, but then you end up with only a few actually being any good, and the rest are largely ignored.
 

EscapeGoat_v1legacy

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I'd rather have a larger roster when it comes to fighting games, more choice tends to be better I think. If you've got casual players, more characters means a bit more variety and fun to experiment with, especially if you're just sitting around and messing about with friends. More serious players will probably only gravitate to and learn a handful of characters but it's more of a test then to be able to try and learn and counter a wider pool of characters and moves.