finite or infinite?

[ezeroast]

Ok I accidently got into an argument with a creationist on youtube. This isn't a particularly religious topic so that's why its here.
He was stating that space and time is finite and I was basicly telling him that his reasoning was wrong.

Here is the part of my comment he is replying to

"Ok there is a distance between 2 object BUT that distance is forever expanding, how is that not infinite?"

Here's a quote from him

"Imagine a balloon that is always expanding. At any point, it still has a finite size, and that's why it can keep getting bigger. If it was already an infinite size, how could it get bigger? Size is a statement of measurement, and measurement only works if something is finite enough to measure. Therefore, if space is expanding (like science proves, and The Bible says),It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens then we know space is finite."

"We also know time is expanding (space-time), since each moment "expands" on the moment before it."

My reply to that

"Just because something can be measured does not mean that it is finite. I don't understand your reasoning here."

His reply to this

"Something that is infinite is non-finite. Measurements require finite digits to measure with. Imagine a ruler without finite points. How could you measure anything with it?"

and my reply to that

"A ruler with infinite digits still has numbers on it yes? so there are an infinite numbers placed along the ruler to measure things with.
This conversation is going nowhere and if we keep this up it could go "Forever". So if you were to keep replying to me and I kept replying to you forever there would be no end to it correct? Would that be infinite?"


Just wondering what you guys thought.

TLDR : Is anything infinite? If so why and if not why not?

 

[Miumaru]

Well, time is infinite, but not all time has happened. Just saying. Though I guess you must factor in the impossibility of the begining of time.

 

[pope_of_larry]

you are rite and debates that dont start as religious but quote the bible will always end up going on and on no madder what the subject on less someone stops them like one of newtons laws dont care to look it up.
and yes things are infinites and if any one says others whys ask them what the last number is.

 

[The_Healer]

Time is a tricky one because we can only measure what has past, not what will come. We assume that because time has not stopped yet, it will keep going until infinity.
Though if time does stop this will make it finite.

As for size, I believe nothing is infinite. There may be immense values associated with the measurement of space or size, but it can still be measured given the right tools.

 

[lacktheknack]

This is absolute religion bait, ask to have it moved to the religion and politics section.

And I don't believe that time is infinite, because I believe there must have been a beginning.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

That guy loses the battle... -600 HP. At any one time an expanding balloon is not finite, because it is, get this, growing, and the size is increasing. For it to be finite, it has to stay the same size and not grow at all. Our universe is going to keep expanding until it pops, so at the time right before it pops it will be finite. But until then it will be infinite. At least scientists say it will pop.

 

[Disaster Button]

Well, time is infinite, but not all time has happened. Just saying. Though I guess you must factor in the impossibility of the begining of time.

Well, time began when the Universe first showed up and will cease to be once the Universe is gone. Time can't exist without a place for time to pass by in. So it isn't infinite in that respect. But because thats a bit far off, it may as well be called infinite for now.

 

[grimsprice]

That guy loses the battle... -600 HP. At any one time an expanding balloon is not finite, because it is, get this, growing, and the size is increasing. For it to be finite, it has to stay the same size and not grow at all. Our universe is going to keep expanding until it pops, so at the time right before it pops it will be finite. But until then it will be infinite. At least scientists say it will pop.

Um. When? Where? Who?

 

[ezeroast]

This is absolute religion bait, ask to have it moved to the religion and politics section.

And I don't believe that time is infinite, because I believe there must have been a beginning.

I have to disagree about this being religions bait, if someone want to add religion as a reason for time being finite/infinite that's cool. But in essence its a scientific question not a religious one.

 

[gigastrike]

I'm actually agreeing with that guy on most of these examples. I also think that it's impossible for us to tell if anything is infinite.

And I don't believe that time is infinite, because I believe there must have been a beginning.

A ray is as infinite as a line, it's just infinite in one direction.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

That guy loses the battle... -600 HP. At any one time an expanding balloon is not finite, because it is, get this, growing, and the size is increasing. For it to be finite, it has to stay the same size and not grow at all. Our universe is going to keep expanding until it pops, so at the time right before it pops it will be finite. But until then it will be infinite. At least scientists say it will pop.

Um. When? Where? Who?

The guy that argued with *looks up at original post*...ezeroast. He lost.

 

[ezeroast]

I guess as a side note
Does time exist if there is nothing to measure it against?

 

[ajofflight]

Well, as long as the length of a ruler with finite digits on it expands at the same rate as the universe, then yes, it can be "infinite", while at any one point in time, it will have a finite length.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

I guess as a side note
Does time exist if there is nothing to measure it against?

There is no way for time not to exist. There just isn't. Man didn't always know how to measure time but it still existed.

 

[grimsprice]

That guy loses the battle... -600 HP. At any one time an expanding balloon is not finite, because it is, get this, growing, and the size is increasing. For it to be finite, it has to stay the same size and not grow at all. Our universe is going to keep expanding until it pops, so at the time right before it pops it will be finite. But until then it will be infinite. At least scientists say it will pop.

Um. When? Where? Who?

The guy that argued with *looks up at original post*...ezeroast. He lost.

No. I'm asking about the "scientists who say the universe will pop".

 

[Reverend Del]

His definition of infinite is flawed. He assumes infinite means unmeasurable, which as stated by folks here, is false.

 

[Miumaru]

Well, time is infinite, but not all time has happened. Just saying. Though I guess you must factor in the impossibility of the begining of time.

Well, time began when the Universe first showed up and will cease to be once the Universe is gone. Time can't exist without a place for time to pass by in. So it isn't infinite in that respect. But because thats a bit far off, it may as well be called infinite for now.

Well, conceivable time anyways. But for time to not exists, nothing can exist either.

 

[klakkat]

OP: Just because something can have infinitely many divisions does not make its extent infinite. Because EVERYTHING can have infinitely many divisions, with the sole exception of abstract concepts; considering everything 'infinite' is a particularly useless worldview for any practical applications. For practical terms, an object is infinite in extent only if it is fundamentally impossible to measure its extent directly.

A ray is as infinite as a line, it's just infinite in one direction.

Here we get to another key point in physics. THERE ARE DIFFERENT QUALITIES OF INFINITE. That's right; just because it's infinite doesn't mean it is unmeasurable; you simply can't measure it directly (there are generally ways to measure quantities indirectly).

I guess as a side note
Does time exist if there is nothing to measure it against?

"Time" as we know it is a perception largely based on the processing speed of our brains. This is why time seems to speed or slow due to your mental state; your brain's processing ability is speeding up or slowing (the approximate synchronization we observe between humans is a physical and social effect). As for the direction of time, thermodynamics ensures that we perceive it the way we do; while time could run backwards in most systems, thermodynamics would still cause our brain to record data in the direction we perceive as forward. So far, no system has been conceived that can bypass the thermodynamic arrow of time issue as far as data storage.

 

[YawehG]

He's right, to the best knowledge of physics we live in a finite but expanding universe. It has boundaries. Granted, those boundaries are constantly changing, they still exist. The balloon metaphor is valid. He's sounds like a pretty smart guy actually. Except for that whole creationist thing.

 

[OneKlicKill]

Time must always exist and always have existed, or as some propose on a loop. But there cant be a start to time, just the start we are able to mesure it from. Just because you dont have a ruler to mesure something does not make it not exist. Religious or scientific it does not matter. If there is a god then he must have existed forever? If there is no god, then something must have caused the big bang which existed before that(or whichever theory you support) and something must have came befor that. So time must have always been. And there may be an end to us, to our universe but that does not make time stop.