Finnish Hearthstone Tournament Changes Policy on Women - Update

[ex2katana]

I'm...not sure why they kept the female-only tournaments. Still, a step forward!

 

[Nielas]

Wait... so they had both male and female only competitions? I came into this thread thinking something wrong was happening. I don't give two farts from Sunday (or whatever other folksy phrase about not giving a shit) about female only competitions so why would I care about male only competitions? Is it only wrong if it's men only but ok if it's women only? Double standard if you ask me, which you didn't, but I'm saying it anyways.

As long as both groups are properly represented, I couldn't care less. It's only sexist if they only had a male competition but no female competition.

What the title should say is that a Male-only tournament prohibits females from playing in it and vice versa. Which shouldn't matter to anyone.

Now basically they've removed the male-only tournament and now have two tournaments that females can join with only one that males can. Hurray for inequality I guess?

No. There was only the male-only Hearthstone competition. Only Starcraft and Tekken had a matching female-only competition.

The reason why the two female-only competitions are still happening is because they would have to do refunds if they cancelled them.

 

[weirdee]

I think it's interesting more than anything else. korean culture has until recently been pretty male dominated and the very idea of being beaten by a girl would crush some fellows I guess. Weird. Its interesting that the finnish were "umm fuck you, girls fought in WWII buddy. I think they'll be fine in COD.". I'm paraphrasing obviously go fins!

I'm...not sure why they kept the female-only tournaments. Still, a step forward!

I'm sort of ok with it. I kind of like the idea of showing off how big a female community we have in gamerland. You know instead of seeing mostly team with one or two girls on them, we can show hey its big enough to have its own tournament. Kinda like that Gaycon or whatever it is. Like "hey were dedicating this convention to LGBT but everyones invited". Definitely do not think the intention is bad.

did you see the schedule? it's like, a third as large as the other side and they were running it parallel to the other tournament, so nobody would have been watching. they probably put them next to the coffee maker or something. if this had gone through it would have been a joke.

 

[JarinArenos]

Changes the policy... still kinda misses the point. Whatever, at least they didn't let the bad publicity keep building and instead decided to get out ahead of things. Ubisoft, take bloody note.

 

[Zulnam]

Translation:

"Look guys, we know you want only one group and dividing males and females is wrong... So what we did is create two groups[...]"

Basically, for the games where there are enough female competitors, there will still be a female-only rule. Don't know if that's what the ladies want.

 

[kael013]

So, they've changed from emulating physical sports to emulating chess. Can't say I'm against that, but why do we need a female-only circuit? Seems a bit like overkill.

"People are complaining we aren't giving women the same opportunities as men? Quick! Open all tourneys to women too; also make a women-only circuit, that'll show we're all about gender equality."

(NOTE: I'm not trying to be sexist here, I'm just pointing out how the overreaction and jump to positive discrimination here didn't quite get the point.)

 

[PunkRex]

Oh for fu- GET RID OF SEX BASED TOURNAMENTS ALL TOGETHER! There is no need here, the differences in male and female brain chemistry is not as big an issue as physical differences.

It's a nice sentiment but you're just widening the gap.

 

[StriderShinryu]

If they were really looking to showcase different players than in the main tournament, then they should have done it as some sort of "up and comers" invitational side event rather than doing a "Hey, girls only" side event. It;s still an improvement but does seem more of a reaction to the backlash than an honest reconsidering of the issue raised.

 

[Sanderpower]

I didn't know that logic-processing was so bloody different that you have to consider the "different wirings within the male/female brain" to separate competition. God forbid the girl might use a card differently than a dude. Puh-fucking-lease. This isn't Starcraft (and then I'd have an actual pro-player example thanks to Scarlett), it's a turn-based card game.

As well as segregating males and females because they might think differently, I guess we'll have to segregate it further for those who are neurotypical and those that are not neurotypical. There's no real reason to, but segregation is good? Right guys?

It's a hard question how and when to segregate and not. It depends where you draw the line. For me, it comes down to: "Does feature X of group Y offer them a huge advantage over other groups?". If yes, segregate based on feature X, else do not segregate.

....This is a video game. A fucking video game. Are you seriously going to argue brain chemistry in a video game? Can you give me an example of how gender is going to give somebody an advantage/disadvantage in a VIDEO GAME?

See in sports, it's somewhat understandable because men are on average stronger then women. But this is a video game, there is no physical activity required, hell in online games you can't even tell the gender of the player your facing against behind the computer screen.

This is one of those situations when segregation is not only illogical, it's wasteful and insulting.

 

[Rawbeard]

This is so sad and stupid.

 

[Lilani]

You know what I know? That I communicate with females on a daily basis who seem to function exactly the same as me outside of our reproductive desires.

The same? Really?
Based on the study I posted above:

The data, pulled from 10,000 American men and women who took a questionnaire that measured 15 variations of personality traits, records that men and women feel and behave in very specific (and gendered) ways.

Men are more:
- Dominant
- Reserved
- Utilitarian
- Vigilant
- Rule-conscious
- Emotionally stable

While women are more:
- Deferential
- Warm
- Trusting
- Sensitive
- Emotionally "reactive"

As a side note, I'm all for gender equality. I believe that it's OK to have mixed eSports competition but that's just that, a belief. I do not have any conclusive evidence to support it or to refute it.

Yes, because generalizations are always helpful in segregating people for sports. I suppose we should separate blacks and whites in sports again as there are more black people in jail, hinting at a higher propensity for hosility and violence, which would affect how they approach situations on the field?

Do you have any information which proves any of these things are reasons to separate people? Or to put it another way, are reasons to not base who gets into tournaments on skill alone?

 

[Razorback0z]

Pushing those buttons can be taxing. Are they sure women can handle the physical requirements well enough to compete with men?

 

[Razorback0z]

You know what I know? That I communicate with females on a daily basis who seem to function exactly the same as me outside of our reproductive desires.

The same? Really?
Based on the study I posted above:

The data, pulled from 10,000 American men and women who took a questionnaire that measured 15 variations of personality traits, records that men and women feel and behave in very specific (and gendered) ways.

Men are more:
- Dominant
- Reserved
- Utilitarian
- Vigilant
- Rule-conscious
- Emotionally stable

While women are more:
- Deferential
- Warm
- Trusting
- Sensitive
- Emotionally "reactive"

As a side note, I'm all for gender equality. I believe that it's OK to have mixed eSports competition but that's just that, a belief. I do not have any conclusive evidence to support it or to refute it.

Yes, because generalizations are always helpful in segregating people for sports. I suppose we should separate blacks and whites in sports again as there are more black people in jail, hinting at a higher propensity for hosility and violence, which would affect how they approach situations on the field?

Do you have any information which proves any of these things are reasons to separate people? Or to put it another way, are reasons to not base who gets into tournaments on skill alone?

Not a bad plan that. It might give us white folks a chance in some of the running events.

 

[Lyvric]

I know, how about we should have it open to everyone. Period. From the start. No male, or female or purple people eater groups. Just everyone altogether. There shouldn't be any excuses from the start and there are no physical
differences in the overall species for trying to play a video game as a sport. People usually won't get hurt or whatever the excuse regular sports use that require physical contact.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Even the update is also stupid. Why have two tournaments at all? Seriously? This is E-sports, there's no reason to have two tournaments. It's not like a female competitor should be intimidated by playing a male. I mean, seriously, if she's that squeamish about playing men, I doubt she'd ever have gotten good enough to compete anyway.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Yes, this makes sense. Just as women are physically inferior to men, the fact that so much of their brain power is taken up with planning dinner, thinking about fashion and worrying about the kids puts them at a disdvantage against men in these kinds of competitions.

But in all honesty I think doing both a free-access and a female specific tournament seems like the most reasonable way to handle things given that they already booked the space and what not.

 

[Sansha]

FYI guys, the only people who consider e-sports an actual sport are the people who play and stand to make a living off of e-sports. For the rest of us, it's called a video game.

Ever consider that just because you have no interest in something, that doesn't mean that other people can't like it? I make absolutely zero dollars off of E-Sports, same as I make off of regular sports, but I enjoy watching soccer and competitive CS:GO just the same. I treat them as equal, no matter what types of skills they require. How about you stop belittling people's interests?

I'll stop belitting e-sports when it stops calling itself "e-sports" and starts calling itself "competitive video games". Otherwise, it's just trying to stroke its own ego.

You don't get what the E in Esports stand for, do you..? I love naysayers like you who have so little to do with their lives that they just run around trying to belittle other peoples interests as dumb because you're not part of it. One of the amazing features of smart people is the ability to understand why others find something interesting or fun, even if you personally don't. Same reason as I completely understand why so many people are obsessed with soccer, even if I personally have zero interest in it. Wouldn't it be silly if I ran around telling people "Its not sports. Its just 22 people fighting over a leather ball, and whoever loses gets to have their fans wreck havoc in the streets with riots. Its a children's game"

"...so little to do with their lives...", Personal attacks already? tsk tsk. None of my responses have targeted people but "e-sports" as a whole. To answer your questions by the way, "Electronic", and websters defines a "Sport" as "a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other." Now I'm assuming that the argument to be made is "Well they have to click the mouse and think quickly, that counts as physical activity." and I simply disagree.

There's a difference between 'click the mouse and think quickly', and pro levels of APM, or 'actions per minute', which is how many moves one can make in the game in a minute's time.

Jaedong, a pro Starcraft II player, holds the record for APM at 818, and averages around 350, which means he makes 350 decisions and moves per minute.

Let's see Tim Howard do that.

You don't get to belittle somebody else's interests because you don't understand it, or don't agree with it. You don't get to decide what it's called, and your opinion has long been vastly outnumbered by the fans, competitors, sponsors and broadcasters of esports.

Whether you don't like it being compared to physical sports (psports?) because you love your football or just don't understand the level of skill, training and dedication required to be competitive, you're little more than just wrong.

 

[Airon]

What a nice surprise to have the male-only competitions scrapped. The right direction.