Fire Emblem Birthright v Conquest. (Conquest wins)

[Story]

I bought the collectors edition of Fire Emblem Fates and its...not super great to be honest. I mean I had fun with the game and I don't regret my buy, but it was disappointing.
The other posts nailed it to be honest. Conquest has the better gameplay by far and more interesting characters too but a story that's just rubbish, I mean just awful.
Birthright's story is better only because it's not awful but instead just bland. All the characters in Birthright are bland with the expection of one or two and the Nohr siblings who got more characterization in this game than in Conquest. Birthright's gameplay is also bland, same-y "rout the enemy type of maps" it's not as linear but who cares when it's all so dull.
I got half way through Revalations but I stopped playing mostly because I was tired of the game having played Conquest and Birthright back to back. So you know, I'd pick one and then Revalations if you would really want to play.

 

[ErrrorWayz]

Bought Conquest and frankly not recommending any of them, the plot of Conquest might be the worst plot I have ever seen in a game, and I play a lot of JRPG's with shitty stories. The gameplay is also a mixed bag for me, I just don't like the reinforcement feature, it makes a lot of stages pure trial and error rather then fun.

The writing of Conquest was so terrible that I have lost faith in the entire Fire Emblem franchise. Maybe Birthright and Revelation are better, but I can't bare to bring myself to spend $20 a pop to find out.

2 posts within a single of post of each other - it's agreed then, Conquest is some of the greatest game writing of all time, the Citizen Kane of the games industry.

 

[go-10]

I played all 3 and honestly the story suffers greatly because of the three paths, the game play is till fun but Revelations is the only path that feels somewhat realistic but in the end the games difficulty is downright either impossible or lack any challenge at all.
I've been playing FE games since Tharcia 766 and I gotta say that Fates is by far the worst in the series, story and character wise and the main reason is because of the division in 3 "paths"
if you just have to play one then I'd suggest you play Conquest as the maps have variety and different goals, Birthright is a chore of route all enemy units and nothing else. Conquest at least has seize the throne, route enemies, defend X point, survive X turns, etc. it retains some of the classic modes.

due be warned though that Revelations is the only path that actually delivers a somewhat credible and complete story. Birthright and Conquest feel like they're missing 2/3 of the story

 

[NPC009]

I played all three iterations of Fates, and I can say for certainty that none of those were present in any form. Seriously, what kind of large-scale killing is there in Fates? Certainly nothing on the scale of the Serenes plotline in FE:9.

Moral ambiguity? Don't make me laugh. The most insulting thing is that they pretended this game would have some in the marketing and setup, but when you actually play the damn game you realize that it's completely black and white, good guys vs bad guys, saints vs sinners. The villains have no redeeming qualities, or the heroes damning ones.

To name one point? You massacre a village of Kitsunes because you're just passing through.

There are criticisms of the game you COULD have, but what you're currently identifying is not one.

Those kitsunes attacked you despite your unwillingness to fight (as you were just trying to pass through), so that chapter was pretty much self-defense.

And holy crap, that chapter is a pain in the ass. I can't imagine a bunch of peace-loving bird people putting up a fight like that...

 

[Souplex]

Those kitsunes attacked you despite your unwillingness to fight (as you were just trying to pass through), so that chapter was pretty much self-defense.

And holy crap, that chapter is a pain in the ass. I can't imagine a bunch of peace-loving bird people putting up a fight like that...

They initially attack you because they want to protect their village.. So you massacre literally the ENTIRE village. There are other points too, but the massacre of the Kitsune village is the point where the characters really doubt themselves.

I understand not liking the story of Fates, but claiming that the story is somehow worse than the other Fire Emblem games is just absurd. None of the other Fire Emblem games feature anything that Fates doesn't, aside from a few deeper characters who are portrayed in more in depth support conversations.

Interestingly, that's the only fight in Conquest where stabbing people who you don't want dead actually has consequences.
In literally every other fight you manage to just knock out the people who you smacked in the face with axes, but not that one. It was so fucking melodramatic. All of conquest was.
As someone who has played every other US released FE, the story is notably worse. Even the more cartoonish villains had some form of believable motivation for their actions in other games, and there never seemed to be any forced melodrama.
You sir are objectively wrong.

 

[NPC009]

Those kitsunes attacked you despite your unwillingness to fight (as you were just trying to pass through), so that chapter was pretty much self-defense.

And holy crap, that chapter is a pain in the ass. I can't imagine a bunch of peace-loving bird people putting up a fight like that...

They initially attack you because they want to protect their village.. So you massacre literally the ENTIRE village. There are other points too, but the massacre of the Kitsune village is the point where the characters really doubt themselves.

True, they do doubt themselves, because they couldn't find a way to prevent the fight. Those kitsune really though the only way to protect their village was to fight to the death... (Which felt kind of out of character to me, because Kaden is a total sweetheart in the other routes, and is happy as long as his fur is groomed and he can help people. Plus, in every other fight your army was all like 'don't worry, we just knocked them out!' Like wow, why was that tactic suddenly impossible?)

Also, the characters should have had major doubts way before then, because holy crap, Garon isn't even trying to hide he's evil.

I understand not liking the story of Fates, but claiming that the story is somehow worse than the other Fire Emblem games is just absurd. None of the other Fire Emblem games feature anything that Fates doesn't, aside from a few deeper characters who are portrayed in more in depth support conversations.

it's not so much about what fates does or doesn't, but about how it does things. Many character do things that make little to no sense just to get the plot moving or create drama. It all feels very forced and stupid. Like Corrin not seeing through the worst disguise ever. Or that thing with Xander or Elise near the end of Birthright. Or simply the whole 'sure, we trust you, let's all jump off a cliff!' thing.

(And good lord, how I hated the endings of Birthright and Conquest. They pretend everything is just totally okay again while both countries would be facing a political disaster in a rational story. Not to mention the losses the remaining characters will have to live with.

Spoiler

Leo at the end of Conquest? Poor guy is fucked. He lost most of the people that actually care about him (Xander and Elise are dead, Camilla and Odin ran off, Corrin is probably living in Hoshido), and the death of Garon must have created a power vacuum in an already unstable country. Sure, Leo is sitting on the throne, but that doesn't mean people want him to. The epilogue of the other two games made it pretty clear Leo wants to do the right thing (reform the country) and suffers as a result. Things are not fine. Things are terrible.

Birthright is possibly even worse. Hoshido was invaded, both princes were killed by Nohr (okay, sure, not technically, but the invasion was the cause of their deaths) and the eldest sister who has no experience ruling (as she never had any intention to do so) is sitting on the throne, having to play nice with the country that invaded her country and took away half her family (aside from Corrin being kidnapped and eventually siding with Nohr, there's her father, stepmother and her two brothers).

Other Fire Emblems weren't exactly of literary quality either and some did have some very dumb twists (bloodpact, anyone?), but they were cohesive, if not a bit standard, fantasy stories.

 

[ArcaneGamer]

I greatly enjoy the Fire Emblem series. I thought that Awakening was the weakest of the games but overall, I still enjoy it.

So the family vacation is starting and you know what that means; I need to stock up on booze! a new 3DS game!

So I am wondering from those of you who have actually played the two; do you recommend playing both of them or should I go with just Conquest (which I've heard is more like the FE of ye olden times)? If you recommend both, do I start with the easier Birthright or the harder Conquest?

Yes, you do need booze. But not for you. For your family. They can't bother you if they're drunk, can they? But in all seriousness, I say start with Birthright, and use an Action Replay Power Saves Pro if you got one. (VERY useful for getting the good gear and consumables) Although, once you've played enough of Birthright, if you have the cash...get Revelations. (Ah, the options for bonding you have! Which way will you go, I wonder...)

 

[Quellist]

Bought Conquest and frankly not recommending any of them, the plot of Conquest might be the worst plot I have ever seen in a game, and I play a lot of JRPG's with shitty stories. The gameplay is also a mixed bag for me, I just don't like the reinforcement feature, it makes a lot of stages pure trial and error rather then fun.

You mean the plot is worse than Awakening? Oh man, that's gotta be epic crapiness

 

[NPC009]

Bought Conquest and frankly not recommending any of them, the plot of Conquest might be the worst plot I have ever seen in a game, and I play a lot of JRPG's with shitty stories. The gameplay is also a mixed bag for me, I just don't like the reinforcement feature, it makes a lot of stages pure trial and error rather then fun.

You mean the plot is worse than Awakening? Oh man, that's gotta be epic crapiness

Here's an example of what to expect in Fates:

In Awakening, the whole children mechanic made sense within the plot. Fates has hyperbolic time chambers for babies, pocket dimension where people dumb their kids. Like: marraige -> instant baby! -> throw baby into baby dimension because it's 'safer' (in half of the paralogues these dimensions turn out to be anything but safe) -> instant recruitable character!

 

[NPC009]

The worst is the fact that basically NONE of the family likes Garon, meaning just straight up murdering him and quitting the war is a choice no one would object to yet is impossible ingame, another really big problem is that every non-playable character tangently related to Nohr is evil, every single fucking one, it's amazing, meanwhile every Hoshido character should have an halo above his head. As meaningless as the word became today, the game seems pretty racist because of it.

Seriously, I can understand them fearing him, but it's not as if they never had any options. Dude put his kids in high positions, even handed them armies.

As for the whole Nohr being obviously evil thing, I have a silly theory: Intelligent Systems just loves stories that draw from Japan and Russia's eternal territorial disputes. I mean, they do seem really eager to make some cold country up north the bad one. And maybe call some other country Crimea. Or create a totally-not-Japan... (Name the leader that might change the north Marx...)

Also another incredibly stupid moment, the entire Hoshido royal family is captured in Conquest, meaning they can use it to finish the war with minimum bloodshed, it's not honourable but will save tons of life, and they let the Hoshido-nians(?) go despite of it.

I guess you could defend that one by Garon being completely insane and happy with just one hostage (Sakura), but it really felt like the supposedly sane characters weren't putting much effort in doing anything that would make political sense. It was like they just wanted to get things over with, no matter the consequences (which were grave, no matter what the games tells you). Really disappointing.

The thing that most annoyns me is the amount of work spent writing every character interaction, and none of it was spent on writing.

Yeah, ugh, that's so true. There are some character I do like. Characters like Takumi and Leo that do recieve some character development during the main plot and have good support convos. However, many characters either act like idiots during the main storyline despite being pretty likable otherwise (hi, Xander!), or just have one or two quirks all support convos are build around (we get it, Soleil likes cute girls... a lot...).

So much quantity, so little quality.

 

[Vahir]

They initially attack you because they want to protect their village.. So you massacre literally the ENTIRE village. There are other points too, but the massacre of the Kitsune village is the point where the characters really doubt themselves.

Self-defense is self-defense, you only kill those who are attacking you. The characters make a big show of regretting it, but really it was completely justified. If the game showed you killing foxes that were not fighting, that'd be one thing, but as is, it's kill or be killed.

And notice that one village, attacked pretty much unintentionally, is not equivalent to the kind of genocide the Herons suffered in the serenes forest. There was a conscious effort to kill every Heron the mob could find in that game. It's on a whole other level than pretty much anything in Fates. I'm not saying incorporating genocide would make it a better game, but it was an example of the kind of serious topic Fates avoids like the plague.

I understand not liking the story of Fates, but claiming that the story is somehow worse than the other Fire Emblem games is just absurd. None of the other Fire Emblem games feature anything that Fates doesn't, aside from a few deeper characters who are portrayed in more in depth support conversations.

There are faults in Fates, such as Corrin being such a bland lawful good character, but some of the complaints in this thread are really are not legitimate.

I guess there isn't much I can say to that except I find all of that to be 100% crap. Call me a fanboy, but I've played a lot of these games, and Fates is nowhere near as good a narrative as the rest (Excluding Sacred Stones and Shadow Dragon, of course).

Leo's plotline with his son is pretty typical of what's wrong with the game, I find: What starts out as an interesting and engaging dynamic (Father being verbally abusive to son as a disappointment) gets resolved with pretty much no explanation (Leo suddenly accepts his son as he is). Just authors writing wish fulfillment, giving everyone inexplicable happy endings.

 

[tippy2k2]

Guys, I appreciate the talk here but remember, I have yet to play the game (that's why we're all here or at least that's why I'm here...)

So....could we not talk about what happens in the game or at least throw some spoilers in there? I'm not sure what's important and what's not so I basically haven't read the last half of my own thread (so maybe there are no real spoilers in there) in order to avoid spoilers.

 

[Quellist]

Bought Conquest and frankly not recommending any of them, the plot of Conquest might be the worst plot I have ever seen in a game, and I play a lot of JRPG's with shitty stories. The gameplay is also a mixed bag for me, I just don't like the reinforcement feature, it makes a lot of stages pure trial and error rather then fun.

You mean the plot is worse than Awakening? Oh man, that's gotta be epic crapiness

Here's an example of what to expect in Fates:

In Awakening, the whole children mechanic made sense within the plot. Fates has hyperbolic time chambers for babies, pocket dimension where people dumb their kids. Like: marraige -> instant baby! -> throw baby into baby dimension because it's 'safer' (in half of the paralogues these dimensions turn out to be anything but safe) -> instant recruitable character!

That straight up just sucks donkey balls! I enjoyed the relationships in awakening and how it lead on to the next chapter but this...thanks for the warning, that game is off my list!

 

[NPC009]

There's no problem in taking historical context (though they could have made Nohr a more Kislev style country, bear cavalry...), but even in Awakening they had a justification for the neighbouring country hating them, not a really good one, but it was there.

I meant the part in the

Spoiler

neutral country

Nohr does actually have a reason to invade Hoshido, and that is asevere lack of fertile land. The poorer part of the population is starving. Of course, they don't really bother to mention this in Conquest itself, so... yeah.

On the other hand, they never really made it clear how the whole climate thing works. Like, Nohr does have natural daylight but it's just always super cloudy? And the sky shifts once every few decades? Wouldn't that mean other countries would face the same problems as Nohr several times per century?

Ugh, the deeper you dig, the more the story disappoints...