First Dark Souls no damage run - all bosses

[hanselthecaretaker]

There are chosen undead...and then there are Chosen Undead. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=424nURd8lzw]

That?s ?no damage?; not the same as ?no hit?.


Bbbut Dark Souls is tooo haaarrd.

 

[Dalisclock]

Good luck.

You're gonna need it.

 

[stroopwafel]

Didn't someone already played DkS 1-3 + Bloodborne 0 damage back to back? But yeah, not only some crazy skill but tremendous concentration as well.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The game is super easy if you just play carefully and with the mindset of "every action taken is to avoid death". Playing the "fun" way is how most people want to play and that's why the games are considered hard. I literally randomly skipped to somewhere in the middle and dude is arrow spamming an Ice/Crystal golem.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Didn't someone already played DkS 1-3 + Bloodborne 0 damage back to back? But yeah, not only some crazy skill but tremendous concentration as well.

Yep, same guy.


He?s also did a deathless DS3 run with three other guys on a single controller.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Didn't someone already played DkS 1-3 + Bloodborne 0 damage back to back? But yeah, not only some crazy skill but tremendous concentration as well.

Yep, same guy.


He?s also did a deathless DS3 run with three other guys on a single controller.

Hit isn?t the same as damage though (you can still take damage without getting hit), which is why this is the most impressive yet.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

But can you do it on a toaster?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The game is super easy if you just play carefully and with the mindset of "every action taken is to avoid death". Playing the "fun" way is how most people want to play and that's why the games are considered hard. I literally randomly skipped to somewhere in the middle and dude is arrow spamming an Ice/Crystal golem.

Is that why it took nine years for someone to do this?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The game is super easy if you just play carefully and with the mindset of "every action taken is to avoid death". Playing the "fun" way is how most people want to play and that's why the games are considered hard. I literally randomly skipped to somewhere in the middle and dude is arrow spamming an Ice/Crystal golem.

Is that why it took nine years for someone to do this?

There's runs of all 3 Dark Souls games played in a row with no damage, there's a Sekiro no damage run too. There's ways to do pretty much everything in these games with very low execution skill required. I don't personally get the point of doing these runs because of the time commitment along with the fact that playing that way isn't fun.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Pfft. Real Dark Souls players were those drunk goggles from DARE, use a toaster as a controller and even then only press 1 button every 5 minutes. That's getting gud.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The game is super easy if you just play carefully and with the mindset of "every action taken is to avoid death". Playing the "fun" way is how most people want to play and that's why the games are considered hard. I literally randomly skipped to somewhere in the middle and dude is arrow spamming an Ice/Crystal golem.

Is that why it took nine years for someone to do this?

There's runs of all 3 Dark Souls games played in a row with no damage, there's a Sekiro no damage run too. There's ways to do pretty much everything in these games with very low execution skill required. I don't personally get the point of doing these runs because of the time commitment along with the fact that playing that way isn't fun.

Again, for the third time in this thread, ?damage? ≠ ?hit?, which is what the previous records actually were for. Hence the video?s title literally being prefaced with ?World?s First? in the description.

Everyone here is well aware of how ?easy? these games are for you (though I?m sure everyone would also love to see actual gameplay to back it up), but that doesn?t make this feat any less impressive. You act like he cheesed through the whole game just because you saw him spamming some arrows, when in fact it?s the culmination of almost a decade of learning every enemy attack type, pattern and range, environmental hazards, character and weapon animations including I-frames, stat limits, etc. to attain a run like this.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Again, for the third time in this thread, ?damage? ?? ?hit?, which is what the previous records actually were for. Hence the video?s title literally being prefaced with ?World?s First? in the description.

Everyone here is well aware of how ?easy? these games are for you (though I?m sure everyone would also love to see actual gameplay to back it up), but that doesn?t make this feat any less impressive. You act like he cheesed through the whole game just because you saw him spamming some arrows, when in fact it?s the culmination of almost a decade of learning every enemy attack type, pattern and range, environmental hazards, character and weapon animations including I-frames, stat limits, etc. to attain a run like this.

My fault, there is a no damage Sekiro run though.

Highlight a spot in the video that's as skillful as what's in this Vanquish video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWGfXaXlzoI], Moment 37 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0], or really any top level play in any competitive game?

Sure, figuring out how to make some of the stuff takes mental skill (not execution skill) but so does figuring that stuff out in other harder games and you don't even know if he figured it out himself or saw someone else do it in a video. After watching the run, with a little practice, I can duplicate it (I'm sure you can too). The hardest part is the endurance aspect.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Again, for the third time in this thread, ?damage? ?? ?hit?, which is what the previous records actually were for. Hence the video?s title literally being prefaced with ?World?s First? in the description.

Everyone here is well aware of how ?easy? these games are for you (though I?m sure everyone would also love to see actual gameplay to back it up), but that doesn?t make this feat any less impressive. You act like he cheesed through the whole game just because you saw him spamming some arrows, when in fact it?s the culmination of almost a decade of learning every enemy attack type, pattern and range, environmental hazards, character and weapon animations including I-frames, stat limits, etc. to attain a run like this.

My fault, there is a no damage Sekiro run though.

Highlight a spot in the video that's as skillful as what's in this Vanquish video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWGfXaXlzoI], Moment 37 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0], or really any top level play in any competitive game?

Sure, figuring out how to make some of the stuff takes mental skill (not execution skill) but so does figuring that stuff out in other harder games and you don't even know if he figured it out himself or saw someone else do it in a video. After watching the run, with a little practice, I can duplicate it (I'm sure you can too). The hardest part is the endurance aspect.

With a little practice, people can duplicate a lot of feats; especially those involving videogames. What makes them most impressive is the lack of duplication in general over X amount of time passed.

There are plenty of examples on YouTube of beating Vanquish challenges, and considering that one was made around two months after the game?s release shows it must have been pretty manageable.

The EVO clip is of course a rarity, but that?s a given when we?re talking about possibly the most competitive fighting game series in history. He also probably practiced many hours defending against supers like that vs just pulling it out of his ass too, so chances are he already duplicated the hell out of that encounter. What makes it impressive is the fact that he denied the opponent victory with only a sliver of health left in an actual tournament.

Having said that, it?s ultimately comparing apples to oranges; hell, apples to meatloaf. Dark Souls was never meant to be anywhere near the most difficult game ever made. Avoiding ?unreasonable? difficulty is Miyazaki?s mantra [https://www.vg247.com/2016/03/02/dark-souls-3-miyazaki-bloodborne-interview/], as in choosing instead to design something the player could eventually overcome. The main reason they?re considered difficult at all is due to the lack of a difficulty select, which is intentional. [https://twinfinite.net/2018/06/from-softwares-hidetaka-miyazaki-talks-about-why-souls-games-dont-have-difficulty-settings/]

What makes the no damage run impressive is that it took this long to be accomplished, and that it set a record doing so. Perhaps someone will be able to duplicate it or outdo it sometime, but once again when it?s anything regarding the Souls series, you?re dismissively quick to exaggerate the ease of which it could happen.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

With a little practice, people can duplicate a lot of feats; especially those involving videogames. What makes them most impressive is the lack of duplication in general over X amount of time passed.

There are plenty of examples on YouTube of beating Vanquish challenges, and considering that one was made around two months after the game?s release shows it must have been pretty manageable.

The EVO clip is of course a rarity, but that?s a given when we?re talking about possibly the most competitive fighting game series in history. He also probably practiced many hours defending against supers like that vs just pulling it out of his ass too, so chances are he already duplicated the hell out of that encounter. What makes it impressive is the fact that he denied the opponent victory with only a sliver of health left in an actual tournament.

Having said that, it?s ultimately comparing apples to oranges; hell, apples to meatloaf. Dark Souls was never meant to be anywhere near the most difficult game ever made. Avoiding ?unreasonable? difficulty is Miyazaki?s mantra [https://www.vg247.com/2016/03/02/dark-souls-3-miyazaki-bloodborne-interview/], as in choosing instead to design something the player could eventually overcome. The main reason they?re considered difficult at all is due to the lack of a difficulty select, which is intentional. [https://twinfinite.net/2018/06/from-softwares-hidetaka-miyazaki-talks-about-why-souls-games-dont-have-difficulty-settings/]

What makes the no damage run impressive is that it took this long to be accomplished, and that it set a record doing so. Perhaps someone will be able to duplicate it or outdo it sometime, but once again when it?s anything regarding the Souls series, you?re dismissively quick to exaggerate the ease of which it could happen.

You can practice just about anything and get good at it; however, with Dark Souls, it'll only take a competent gamer a few retries to get each one of the boss fights down using the methods in videos vs the practice time that goes into getting good a fighting game. That's why I say it isn't nearly that impressive vs other things. I'd rather spend my time mastering something that takes high execution skills (something you always feel like your improving at) vs Dark Souls. Not to mention, the skill of anticipating what a human opponent is going to do in just about any competitive game invented (part of why that Evo moment is so hard) vs the real simple AI of Dark Souls.

Having something accomplished over X amount of time isn't near a perfect way of determining how hard something is. When did these Souls runs even start being attempted? The fact that Sekiro has already been done and that game is harder than Souls means Souls could've been done much faster. Vanquish challenges were obviously labeled as challenges so people wanted to do them because they're literally a mode of the game vs a created challenge by the community. Also, you have to consider how many people even care to do such challenges.

 

[CritialGaming]

You can practice just about anything and get good at it; however, with Dark Souls, it'll only take a competent gamer a few retries to get each one of the boss fights down using the methods in videos vs the practice time that goes into getting good a fighting game. That's why I say it isn't nearly that impressive vs other things. I'd rather spend my time mastering something that takes high execution skills (something you always feel like your improving at) vs Dark Souls. Not to mention, the skill of anticipating what a human opponent is going to do in just about any competitive game invented (part of why that Evo moment is so hard) vs the real simple AI of Dark Souls.

Having something accomplished over X amount of time isn't near a perfect way of determining how hard something is. When did these Souls runs even start being attempted? The fact that Sekiro has already been done and that game is harder than Souls means Souls could've been done much faster. Vanquish challenges were obviously labeled as challenges so people wanted to do them because they're literally a mode of the game vs a created challenge by the community. Also, you have to consider how many people even care to do such challenges.

This is clearly coming from someone who doesn't have any idea WTF they are talking about. Sorry phoenix but you couldn't be more wrong here.

At least in regards to how relatively "easy" this feat is. Sure the Dark Souls Ai is simple, but simple AI doesn't mean easy AI and there is a big difference there. An AI with only two or three possible things it can come at you with can still ruin a human player because humans are faulty and we make mistakes. Professional Musicians still fuck up songs that they've played 1000 times over, and there isn't a single concert that goes 100% perfect.

Now is being perfect in Dark Souls easier than something at EVO? Yeah probably because human nature is far less predictable, however if you play against someone long enough you can learn their habits and beat them fairly regularly. But i don't think Evo players practice against each other enough for that to be a factor here.

This Dark Souls run is ridiculous because it's far more than a no-hit run or a deathless run. It's a no damage run, which means you can't fall too far by mistake or on purpose to skip sections of the game (because fall damage is still damage), you can't miss a single dodge from any enemy attack all over the game, and the memorization on top of perfect execution is another level of wild.

You also have to consider the arrogance factor. Ever been so good at a thing that you get a little careless because you just know you can get out of it? This is a problem everyone has. You've done a thing soo much that you just stop thinking about it and it becomes automatic, but in that automation you ultimately fuck up. This is how car accidents happen. How much time driving do you speed actually focused on driving? Probably very little, your mind wanders because you are so automatic with it. You sing-along to a song, or start thinking about what you should have told your boss or co-worker, that kind of thing.

This also happens with games, and most of the guys that can zip through a Souls game blind folded, have to fight against letting their mind wander during challenges, that's what makes the challenges hard. Just watch any speedrunner on Twitch, and you'll be shocked by just how often they have to reset a run because they fuck up.

You make light of a feat that you have never attempted and have no idea what it takes, you just want to bash on it for the sake of bashing it. If you don't think it's impressive then fine, but don't mock the feat like it isn't the big deal it clearly is especially since you don't know for a fact how easy/hard it actually is.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

This is clearly coming from someone who doesn't have any idea WTF they are talking about. Sorry phoenix but you couldn't be more wrong here.

At least in regards to how relatively "easy" this feat is. Sure the Dark Souls Ai is simple, but simple AI doesn't mean easy AI and there is a big difference there. An AI with only two or three possible things it can come at you with can still ruin a human player because humans are faulty and we make mistakes. Professional Musicians still fuck up songs that they've played 1000 times over, and there isn't a single concert that goes 100% perfect.

Now is being perfect in Dark Souls easier than something at EVO? Yeah probably because human nature is far less predictable, however if you play against someone long enough you can learn their habits and beat them fairly regularly. But i don't think Evo players practice against each other enough for that to be a factor here.

This Dark Souls run is ridiculous because it's far more than a no-hit run or a deathless run. It's a no damage run, which means you can't fall too far by mistake or on purpose to skip sections of the game (because fall damage is still damage), you can't miss a single dodge from any enemy attack all over the game, and the memorization on top of perfect execution is another level of wild.

You also have to consider the arrogance factor. Ever been so good at a thing that you get a little careless because you just know you can get out of it? This is a problem everyone has. You've done a thing soo much that you just stop thinking about it and it becomes automatic, but in that automation you ultimately fuck up. This is how car accidents happen. How much time driving do you speed actually focused on driving? Probably very little, your mind wanders because you are so automatic with it. You sing-along to a song, or start thinking about what you should have told your boss or co-worker, that kind of thing.

This also happens with games, and most of the guys that can zip through a Souls game blind folded, have to fight against letting their mind wander during challenges, that's what makes the challenges hard. Just watch any speedrunner on Twitch, and you'll be shocked by just how often they have to reset a run because they fuck up.

You make light of a feat that you have never attempted and have no idea what it takes, you just want to bash on it for the sake of bashing it. If you don't think it's impressive then fine, but don't mock the feat like it isn't the big deal it clearly is especially since you don't know for a fact how easy/hard it actually is.

The feat is rather easy COMPARED to other gaming feats. The hard part of the thing is figuring out the easy ways to do everything (from getting OP weapons to boss exploits), which he may or may have not figured out himself, the execution part of it is really simple. The endurance part is probably the toughest aspect. The hardest execution parts of the video I've seen skipping around (watching a few boss fights and a couple areas) is getting down the parry window for a few enemies and doing a "Dark Souls" jump. Not missing a single dodge is not nearly as hard as you make it out to be because he's skipping over so many enemies because it's Dark Souls and you can do that and the ones he does have to kill, many of them he's killing from afar with a bow and arrow. Dark Souls AI is both really simple and really exploitable, freaking strafing breaks the AI, bow and arrow breaks the AI, etc. How much different is a 0 hit run vs a no damage run because he's doing all bosses (so he's not skipping anything to begin with)? You probably just have to make a few alterations to your route or need to use the Fall Control spell (which I saw him use) to not take fall damage.

I wouldn't be surprised if EVO players play against each other all the time. When I was deep into online shooters, I would consistently only play the best players/clans because that's the only way to get better. Sure, there's execution stuff you can work on without playing the top players, but not the actual back and forth of playing people on your level or higher. You just don't learn someone's habits or pattern and you're done; you beat them and they adjust, then you have to adjust, and so on.

Speedrunning is different because you literally have to be perfect (or closer to perfect than last time), whereas a Souls no hit/damage run you don't, you can take your time. If an enemy only has only one attack you're comfortable with attacking afterward, you can just stay far away from all its other attack animations and play it safe, waiting for the one window you're comfortable with (that's how I beat Sif underleveled). So you don't have to memorize literally every enemy attack animation, just the one you're comfortable with attacking afterward.

I've mentioned the "careless" factor is pretty much what makes Dark Souls hard to people in the 1st place as I've said the following numerous times:

To make a baseball analogy, the Souls games are like being a shortstop having to field 100 straight routine grounders without an error or else you die. The only reason you die to a normal enemy is just due to losing focus because of how easy they are and you just take a fight for granted much like a shortstop not looking the ball into the glove on a routine grounder.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

This is clearly coming from someone who doesn't have any idea WTF they are talking about. Sorry phoenix but you couldn't be more wrong here.

At least in regards to how relatively "easy" this feat is. Sure the Dark Souls Ai is simple, but simple AI doesn't mean easy AI and there is a big difference there. An AI with only two or three possible things it can come at you with can still ruin a human player because humans are faulty and we make mistakes. Professional Musicians still fuck up songs that they've played 1000 times over, and there isn't a single concert that goes 100% perfect.

Now is being perfect in Dark Souls easier than something at EVO? Yeah probably because human nature is far less predictable, however if you play against someone long enough you can learn their habits and beat them fairly regularly. But i don't think Evo players practice against each other enough for that to be a factor here.

This Dark Souls run is ridiculous because it's far more than a no-hit run or a deathless run. It's a no damage run, which means you can't fall too far by mistake or on purpose to skip sections of the game (because fall damage is still damage), you can't miss a single dodge from any enemy attack all over the game, and the memorization on top of perfect execution is another level of wild.

You also have to consider the arrogance factor. Ever been so good at a thing that you get a little careless because you just know you can get out of it? This is a problem everyone has. You've done a thing soo much that you just stop thinking about it and it becomes automatic, but in that automation you ultimately fuck up. This is how car accidents happen. How much time driving do you speed actually focused on driving? Probably very little, your mind wanders because you are so automatic with it. You sing-along to a song, or start thinking about what you should have told your boss or co-worker, that kind of thing.

This also happens with games, and most of the guys that can zip through a Souls game blind folded, have to fight against letting their mind wander during challenges, that's what makes the challenges hard. Just watch any speedrunner on Twitch, and you'll be shocked by just how often they have to reset a run because they fuck up.

You make light of a feat that you have never attempted and have no idea what it takes, you just want to bash on it for the sake of bashing it. If you don't think it's impressive then fine, but don't mock the feat like it isn't the big deal it clearly is especially since you don't know for a fact how easy/hard it actually is.

The feat is rather easy COMPARED to other gaming feats. The hard part of the thing is figuring out the easy ways to do everything (from getting OP weapons to boss exploits), which he may or may have not figured out himself, the execution part of it is really simple. The endurance part is probably the toughest aspect. The hardest execution parts of the video I've seen skipping around (watching a few boss fights and a couple areas) is getting down the parry window for a few enemies and doing a "Dark Souls" jump. Not missing a single dodge is not nearly as hard as you make it out to be because he's skipping over so many enemies because it's Dark Souls and you can do that and the ones he does have to kill, many of them he's killing from afar with a bow and arrow. Dark Souls AI is both really simple and really exploitable, freaking strafing breaks the AI, bow and arrow breaks the AI, etc. How much different is a 0 hit run vs a no damage run because he's doing all bosses (so he's not skipping anything to begin with)? You probably just have to make a few alterations to your route or need to use the Fall Control spell (which I saw him use) to not take fall damage.

I wouldn't be surprised if EVO players play against each other all the time. When I was deep into online shooters, I would consistently only play the best players/clans because that's the only way to get better. Sure, there's execution stuff you can work on without playing the top players, but not the actual back and forth of playing people on your level or higher. You just don't learn someone's habits or pattern and you're done; you beat them and they adjust, then you have to adjust, and so on.

Speedrunning is different because you literally have to be perfect (or closer to perfect than last time), whereas a Souls no hit/damage run you don't, you can take your time. If an enemy only has only one attack you're comfortable with attacking afterward, you can just stay far away from all its other attack animations and play it safe, waiting for the one window you're comfortable with (that's how I beat Sif underleveled). So you don't have to memorize literally every enemy attack animation, just the one you're comfortable with attacking afterward.

I've mentioned the "careless" factor is pretty much what makes Dark Souls hard to people in the 1st place as I've said the following numerous times:

To make a baseball analogy, the Souls games are like being a shortstop having to field 100 straight routine grounders without an error or else you die. The only reason you die to a normal enemy is just due to losing focus because of how easy they are and you just take a fight for granted much like a shortstop not looking the ball into the glove on a routine grounder.

LOL Nope. Maybe you can take your time, but even the various speed runs of Souls aren?t as big a deal as this because they don?t require as much discipline and caution.

You?re still equating an entirely different set of game parameters in that of action and competitive titles to the the reasonable difficulty design of Dark Souls as it?s normally played. This obtuse ?no damage? challenge run is completely independent of that, because it?s basically the most extreme house-ruled approach for the game to-date.

Dismissing it because the AI is exploitable (which is also intentional design, otherwise the difficulty would be considered unreasonable given the rigid progression design) or whatever is missing the point completely. It?s almost like you hold some kind of deep, conceited resentment towards the series because of some ridiculous marketing tactic describing it as being tougher than your favorite ?legit git-gud tough? games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

LOL Nope. Maybe you can take your time, but even the various speed runs of Souls aren?t as big a deal as this because they don?t require as much discipline and caution.

You?re still equating an entirely different set of game parameters in that of action and competitive titles to the the reasonable difficulty design of Dark Souls as it?s normally played. This obtuse ?no damage? challenge run is completely independent of that, because it?s basically the most extreme house-ruled approach for the game to-date.

Dismissing it because the AI is exploitable (which is also intentional design, otherwise the difficulty would be considered unreasonable given the rigid progression design) or whatever is missing the point completely. It?s almost like you hold some kind of deep, conceited resentment towards the series because of some ridiculous marketing tactic describing it as being tougher than your favorite ?legit git-gud tough? games.

Speedruns require perfection, which is harder than discipline and caution (which isn't execution skills but a mindset). That's why I never found the Souls games hard because getting into the mindset of "every action I take is to not die" was real simple for me. Literally not cutting a corner just right can cost you that 0.1 of a second that could mean the difference in a speedrun. And you can't just figure out the shortest path to be the best speedrunner as everyone else then knows the path and they can shave off time mastering that path (thus, speedruns are high in execution skill). Whereas these no-hit/damage runs can be watched and you or me can recreate them with a bit of practice if we want. It's mainly just practicing the boss fights and getting those down.

The difficulty of Dark Souls is only there "as it's normally played" when you don't know how everything works. It's almost like a puzzle game in that sense; once you know the solution to the puzzle, it's EZ-PZ. Even Mark Brown says the same thing (in a sense) as I'm saying in the following video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7BWayWu08]:
"For me, the soul of Dark Souls was that it was unknowable and obtuse. Ironically, none of these Soulslike games can capture that feeling because, at this point, they're completely familiar."

Show me a person doing a completely blind just no death run of their very 1st Souls game and I'll completely applaud the shit out of that. That'll include far more discipline and caution, along with the ability to pick up on all the game's tells/hints of what is ahead and working out how all the game's systems work. Beating the Capra Demon 1st time, completely blind, may be the most challenging thing in the game.

I personally don't get the point of these runs because that's not what Souls is about. Much like I don't get speedruns of most games because that's not what they're about either. The core of Souls isn't extreme punishment/difficulty so doing these runs doesn't make sense to me nor is it to get through the game as fast as possible (that's literally the opposite of the game really). Whereas the point Mirror's Edge is to get through the level quickly and get a "flow" going so speedrunning that makes sense to me.

It has nothing to do with my dislike or like for the Souls games, it's just that I know what they are and what it takes to do said feats. I'm not into fighting games and I can clearly see the skill on display in tourney play. I don't like RTSs but those top Starcraft players are ridiculous in their skill. Becoming the top Souls PvPer is way more skillful than doing these runs. I can do one of these runs with less practice than becoming the best PvPer, that's just a fact. So yeah, show me top level PvP play of Souls and I won't say that's easy; though I'd say something like For Honor PvP is harder because the combat system is more advanced.