For the war vets out there...

[Paksenarrion]

How are you dealing with civilian life? Am I the only one who gets angry whenever someone brings up your prior vocation? This is the reason why I don't like telling people I'm a vet. I don't know why I get pissed, I just do. Also, aside from drugs and booze, what do you do to take your mind off everything? I'm running out of non-alcoholic/non-drug options.

It's strange, but it seems like war is so much simpler to deal with than civilian life.

 

[DefunctTheory]

It is simpler. Nothing much more to say about that.

As for using drugs and booze... I don't know what to tell you. Don't be that ex-soldier. Its unbecoming of you.

 

[Cabisco]

Well this thread may very well soon turn into a piece of evidence as to why more money should go into post active duty parts of the army.

Still, i'm intrigued to hear what people have to say as I have considered joining the army on multiple occasions, and might after I start/finish my uni (start in sept) to pay my loans/I want to.

 

[quiet_samurai]

I havea quite a few friends that served overseas and thay all have a different outlook about it. Some are much different, others are exactly the same. There's one who totally went off the deep end and has to seek therapy. But the one thing they all agreed on was that it was simpler, prpbably because you always have someone above you making the decisions and all you have to do is listen, do your job, and stay alive.

 

[Carlston]

Honestly, Houston cares little for it's vets. The businesses around here have been investigated for turning us down for employement (they think we all have PTSD and that will make us postal) Health insurance of large companies (cough general electric) will not take anyone under their insurance if we have prior disabilities even if that means we have health insurance through the VA.

With a mild stroke nine months out of service, the VA hospital has pumped me full of drugs if I didn't neglect to take half of them I wouldn't be able to function. I still drink, of course the VA blames booze on everything. God forbid you don't take their drugs and only theirs.

I miss the old Submarine sometimes... was easy, wake up, do your job, eat, have a few hours to veg then repeat. Yeah the fact you could never be alone, no sun and you slept in a coffin sized bunk...least the days were easy and the food was good. (other than the looming doom of fire, death, exploding hydrolic plants, steam ruptures, you tend to put them in the back of the mind and just run your drills till it's reflex. So you don't think of how easy it is to die under the water)

Just like people forgot what 9/11 means, they just see you as trying to get a free meal or some crap. Least New Yorkers were polite and friendly...

But my mind still dwells on things. I play a few games, go to a anime con time to time, play pool, laser tag... but they never drown it out, and since I am divorced cause soon as my paycheck stopped the loved stopped from the EX, I live alone. And sad at my age I relate to no one around me.

And I thought three years out the old military service would stop taking shit away...but no...it goes on and on.

Find some friends who don't judge, hang out, and try your best.
I know I try.

 

[Paksenarrion]

I don't even like considering drugs and booze; I'm too paranoid about the weaknesses they create in you. But there are times, like now, when I want to isolate myself in a room with a window, stare outside at the frustrating normalness of the world, and keep drinking. I have yet to do so, and I avoid social drinking because I know it would be too easy to overstep my boundaries.

I wish I could trade places with the me from before, the one wishing I was back here with my family, instead of being in Iraq. I would trade places with myself in a heartbeat. I can't deal with my family anymore. I'm going to therapy, but I find myself clamming up and treating my problem like it's not really a big deal.

I miss being in a war zone.

Oh, man...I wish there was a huge group of vets I could join who go to anime conventions. We'd all dress up as state alchemists from Full Metal Alchemist (as an example), and just relive the old days without people thinking we're weird.

 

[Emperor Platypus]

Do you get angry if they just mention it or when they badmouth you for it?

And yes from what I understand war/being in the military, is in some cases simpler then civilian life. Having to follow orders and a daily routine can be a great comfort to some people (myself included).

Well this thread may very well soon turn into a piece of evidence as to why more money should go into post active duty parts of the army.

Still, i'm intrigued to hear what people have to say as I have considered joining the army on multiple occasions, and might after I start/finish my uni (start in sept) to pay my loans/I want to.

Thinking of doing the same thing after I finish uni.

 

[era81]

I came home and found life as a civi boring so I hooked up with a small pmc group out of Virginia.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Still, i'm intrigued to hear what people have to say as I have considered joining the army on multiple occasions, and might after I start/finish my uni (start in sept) to pay my loans/I want to.

Thinking of doing the same thing after I finish uni.

If you are only going to join the military to pay the bills, don't. You will hate it, and the military will hate you.

Spoiler

I don't even like considering drugs and booze; I'm too paranoid about the weaknesses they create in you. But there are times, like now, when I want to isolate myself in a room with a window, stare outside at the frustrating normalness of the world, and keep drinking. I have yet to do so, and I avoid social drinking because I know it would be too easy to overstep my boundaries.

I wish I could trade places with the me from before, the one wishing I was back here with my family, instead of being in Iraq. I would trade places with myself in a heartbeat. I can't deal with my family anymore. I'm going to therapy, but I find myself clamming up and treating my problem like it's not really a big deal.

I miss being in a war zone.

If you really feel this way, get help. Such thinking will destroy you.

 

[Cabisco]

Still, i'm intrigued to hear what people have to say as I have considered joining the army on multiple occasions, and might after I start/finish my uni (start in sept) to pay my loans/I want to.

Thinking of doing the same thing after I finish uni.

If you are only going to join the military to pay the bills, don't. You will hate it, and the military will hate you.

I get your reasoning, fact is I wanted to join the military for a long time but for the most part my family would be against it (understandably, they love me and don't want harm to befall me). So i've gone down the route of university, i was prompted to do uni now before it becomes far to expensive to do so. Then once i'm finished I'd like to go on to do what I wanted originally, which would be the military. Though first I will admit it will be nice to go to university and experience that.

I have to ask, what made you join?

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Still, i'm intrigued to hear what people have to say as I have considered joining the army on multiple occasions, and might after I start/finish my uni (start in sept) to pay my loans/I want to.

Thinking of doing the same thing after I finish uni.

If you are only going to join the military to pay the bills, don't. You will hate it, and the military will hate you.

I get your reasoning, fact is I wanted to join the military for a long time but for the most part my family would be against it (understandably, they love me and don't want harm to befall me). So i've gone down the route of university, i was prompted to do uni now before it becomes far to expensive to do so. Then once i'm finished I'd like to go on to do what I wanted originally, which would be the military. Though first I will admit it will be nice to go to university and experience that.

I have to ask, what made you join?

I joined for job experience, to get out of my parents house, and to serve my country.

I've found the experience... a mixed bag, so to speak.

 

[Carlston]

Well, I'm not a war veteran. I have been in a combat situation (A guerrilla attack in Northern Ireland), but as an innocent bystander. Traumatic enough, although I suppose as a soldier, you'd be better trained to deal with it.

One thing though, from having a friend who fought in Afghanistan, while us civvies might seem to be idiots and naive, all we really want to do is help you. So if you're prepared to put up with a few stupid questions, it's a lot better. Don't become the person, like AjimboB pointed out, who tells non-soldiers to shut up. You're just shutting yourself off. I know you've experienced more than we ever will, but civilian life has its benefits, and unless you feel like re-enlisting, you might as well get used to it.

So yeah, basically, don't shut yourself off like my friend did, because he just became a hopeless case and is now on heavy medication. Be open, and try to adjust.

Training? The most training a lot of soldiers and Sailors get is "Shut up and don't be a pussy." from your higher rankers. As your medical care is mostly you walking in, not being treated cause Docs are lazy and handing you motrin hand over fist. The training really only makes you more ashamed to admit and want to talk about something. Best not talk about it, that builds up. And yeah, it can shatter a person. As much as they tout how much they care, a soldier threatens to kill themself most the time they are dared or made fun of to carry it out.

And if a service member kills themselves the brass quietly spreads it around how they were "Cowards" and couldn't handle it.

It really is hard to explain to people, then again when the ground pounder gives me crap for not hitting the sand I like to paint a picture of where I was, and chances are they don't like it. It's not who saw worse, but sometimes when the storyslinging starts you have to try and bring someone down. It's not about devaluing someone elses service, but knowing someone can relate. It gets hard not driving people away for some.

Even getting a vet to admit whats wrong is difficult, we go back to the mind set we can't complain and if we do we will be punished or berated for it...

Now I'm rambling. But don't drag yourself down...try and enjoy life some how.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Do you get angry if they just mention it or when they badmouth you for it?

One thing though, from having a friend who fought in Afghanistan, while us civvies might seem to be idiots and naive, all we really want to do is help you. So if you're prepared to put up with a few stupid questions, it's a lot better. Don't become the person, like AjimboB pointed out, who tells non-soldiers to shut up. You're just shutting yourself off. I know you've experienced more than we ever will, but civilian life has its benefits, and unless you feel like re-enlisting, you might as well get used to it.

So yeah, basically, don't shut yourself off like my friend did, because he just became a hopeless case and is now on heavy medication. Be open, and try to adjust.

I actually don't mind answering questions. I understand that some people are just curious, and earnestly want to know. I do like opening up. It's just certain people (certain friends and family, in particular) keep bringing up my status as a veteran to random people, or out loud in public.

I find myself thinking I have to act a certain way, and I'm forced into a role that's not me. I hate it. But, no, feel free to PM me questions. If I don't feel comfortable answering, I'll say so.

But, to clarify, I don't think all civilians are idiots and naive. They are normal human beings who are content with how they live their lives, and I'm glad to have fought for you. Then are those who think that war is "freakin' awesome". At best, war is comforting when compared to civilian life, but from my experience, you learn that everything is temporary: time, friends, food, everything.

I guess, at the moment, I'm surrounded by warhawks.

 

[Nikajo]

Well perhaps you might benefit from taking up some kind of competitive martial art? At least then you would have something to focus on, it's good for you and you would still be dealing with an opponent, in terms of being able to spar with people. Apart from that I don't really know what else to suggest, obviously not helped by the fact that I don't know exactly how you feel.

If that's not your taste then perhaps another hobby, something that uses a lot of energy. It's kinda hard to imagine how you feel considering that I and probably many other people on here haven't had the same experiences

 

[Carlston]

Training? The most training a lot of soldiers and Sailors get is "Shut up and don't be a pussy." from your higher rankers. As your medical care is mostly you walking in, not being treated cause Docs are lazy and handing you motrin hand over fist. The training really only makes you more ashamed to admit and want to talk about something. Best not talk about it, that builds up. And yeah, it can shatter a person. As much as they tout how much they care, a soldier threatens to kill themself most the time they are dared or made fun of to carry it out.

What, you mean you don't get any mental training for how to deal with seeing people killed or killing? Nothing at all?


I mean, I was 10 feet away from 6 people being shot, two of whom died, and I still haven't gotten over it, I've gotten Post-traumatic stress disorder, the works. That was a year ago. I can understand, that if a significant part of what you do is killing people, that a natural desensitization would kick in after a while, but surely it must potentially cause horrible psychological damage for some, being totally unprepared for the realities of what you're doing.

I really think that armies (some) take the whole stoic soldier thing too far. I mean, the abuse is somewhat necessary for building strength under pressure, but when a persons life is at stake, dismissing it as cowardice just seems totally morally abhorrent.

I suppose this is why I'd never make a good soldier.

4 years subs one last one with the Seabees. The Seabees were training me up for Iraq, and already had alot of Anti-terrorism and Nuke weap secuirty ... but yeah bout what happens is you see shit go down, and training really just comes back to focusing on your mission and what needs to be done right now.

After the fight, well... I seen and over heard a lot of shameful things told to people who just needed a little help when I would over see marines being processed out. Giving them tasks to keep busy, but what they needed was a shrink.

Think about the game rainbow six. Room entry training. Flat out told, it's not the first and second guy to get shot up. It's the third and fourth. Now picture being third and fourth...every time. And now the real bullets fly, not simunitions or the like.

Time to time, I go to a VFW and listen to some of the guys and gal that come in for a drink. And many of them, if they had mental/physical care at the time or even the period following they'd be a lot better off. But that's what happens when Officer medical/shrinks use the people they need to help to pad their evals, and they get paid if they see 1 or 300 people in a month. I can't say it's all like that, but what I saw was fairly negative. And you were not cared for properly unless you were missing limbs.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Spoiler: Nikajo

Well perhaps you might benefit from taking up some kind of competitive martial art? At least then you would have something to focus on, it's good for you and you would still be dealing with an opponent, in terms of being able to spar with people. Apart from that I don't really know what else to suggest, obviously not helped by the fact that I don't know exactly how you feel.

If that's not your taste then perhaps another hobby, something that uses a lot of energy. It's kinda hard to imagine how you feel considering that I and probably many other people on here haven't had the same experiences

I did take up shotokan karate and tai chi once upon a time. I did pretty badly with the sparring competitions because I would back away if I forced them to close to the edge of the circle (it was only later that I learned that was the purpose....d'oh!), but I did enjoy the kata competitions, especially the group ones. We'd choose a song to do the kata for in our head, then sing it together during practice. It was fun!

I stopped going because...God, I can't get up in the morning anymore. I end up staying up until around past 5am, trying to distract myself from being in my own head, then end up not getting up until past noon. The only time I get up in the morning is to go to work.

Spoiler: Furburt

Training? The most training a lot of soldiers and Sailors get is "Shut up and don't be a pussy." from your higher rankers. As your medical care is mostly you walking in, not being treated cause Docs are lazy and handing you motrin hand over fist. The training really only makes you more ashamed to admit and want to talk about something. Best not talk about it, that builds up. And yeah, it can shatter a person. As much as they tout how much they care, a soldier threatens to kill themself most the time they are dared or made fun of to carry it out.

What, you mean you don't get any mental training for how to deal with seeing people killed or killing? Nothing at all?

I mean, I was 10 feet away from 6 people being shot, two of whom died, and I still haven't gotten over it, I've gotten Post-traumatic stress disorder, the works. That was a year ago. I can understand, that if a significant part of what you do is killing people, that a natural desensitization would kick in after a while, but surely it must potentially cause horrible psychological damage for some, being totally unprepared for the realities of what you're doing.

I really think that armies (some) take the whole stoic soldier thing too far. I mean, the abuse is somewhat necessary for building strength under pressure, but when a persons life is at stake, dismissing it as cowardice just seems totally morally abhorrent.

I suppose this is why I'd never make a good soldier.

Nope. No psychological training. Just muscle memory. All they care about is that even in the most dire of situations, you still remember to squeeze that trigger.

I suppose, if you think of it this way, none of us are good soldiers, because we're not machines. No matter how much we desperately pretend to be.

Well, my mother is sort of a war veteran.

She served in Afghanistan as a traffic tech (someone in charge of shipping things for you civilians), and her main duty was prepping the dead soldiers for the flight home, which means assembling the mangled parts that were her former comrades, cleaning off the blood and other bits of person, putting them in a box, covering it with a flag, and then sending it home.

Her attitude is pretty much unchanged, although she does smoke alot more.....

Props to her. I'm guessing she hugs you more after experiencing that. I know I would hug my kids (if I had any) after seeing that.