Former president trump indicted.

[Worgen]

March 30, 2023 Donald Trump indictment news

A Manhattan grand jury has voted to indict former President Donald Trump. Follow here for live news updates, analysis and reactions.

www.cnn.com

Trump has been indicted by a grand jury for 30 counts related to financial fraud. Apparently he's due in court on Tuesday.

EDIT: The full indictment has been released.

The Trump indictment is now public. Read it here.

Donald Trump, the first current or former president in US history to face criminal charges, is being arraigned Tuesday after being indicted last week by a Manhattan grand jury. Follow here for the latest live news updates.

www.cnn.com

 

[Gergar12]

Why do I get the feeling America is heading toward a civil war? With the coming general strike by the left, and this. I have a bad feeling about the future, and that's without getting into climate change.

 

[Worgen]

Why do I get the feeling America is heading toward a civil war? With the coming general strike by the left, and this. I have a bad feeling about the future, and that's without getting into climate change.

I kinda doubt it. The battlelines aren't anywhere near as clean as they were back then. We are in much more of an urban rural divide. It can really feel doomer and we will have issues since trump is the kinda guy who doesn't give a fuck about anything but his own neck and a weirdly large number of people still believe him. I think it largely comes down to what republicans in general do, but I doubt most of them will do more then whine, which they love to do about everything anyway.

 

[Dalisclock]

I kinda doubt it. The battlelines aren't anywhere near as clean as they were back then. We are in much more of an urban rural divide. It can really feel doomer and we will have issues since trump is the kinda guy who doesn't give a fuck about anything but his own neck and a weirdly large number of people still believe him. I think it largely comes down to what republicans in general do, but I doubt most of them will do more then whine, which they love to do about everything anyway.

I depends how many of them really want to Risk their necks for Trump at this point considering he didn't do shit for the capitol rioters when he was still in office. Fuck, he hasn't done shit for them out of office either(other then trying to use them for PR purposes).

And no doubt DeSantis is waiting to throw him under the bus the moment he gets a chance, because with Trump out of the way, that clears his way to the GOP Nomination. Considering he lost the 2020 election and helped drag the GOP down in 2022, I have to wonder just how many Republican politicians will be (secretly) happy to see him get carted off, or at least be too pre-occupied with his legal issues to fuck around in their shit.

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of(way too many) fucks who think he's Republican Jesus but it's questionable how many will actually be bothered to organize around him as opposed to using as it an excuse to pull off some domestic terrorism(which is far more likely).

As scary as some of this shit can be, I have to remember that in the lead up to the US Civil War we literally had a mini-civil war happen in Kansas that presaged it and a US Senator try to beat another Senator to death on the Senate floor for hurting his feelings. As scary as shit is, it isn't that scary yet.

 

[tippy2k2]

Lol they gonna Al Capone Trump

 

[BrawlMan]

Have fun with that you wannabe messiah sack of shit.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Dusting off an oldie:

 

[Dreiko]

So what I'm hearing is that one of the charges of the two has expired its statute of limitations so the way they're combining them makes it that he'll get off on both. Not sure how accurate that is but either way, this is why they shouldn't have waited this long. If you know he did this stuff you have to act asap.

 

[Worgen]

I depends how many of them really want to Risk their necks for Trump at this point considering he didn't do shit for the capitol rioters when he was still in office. Fuck, he hasn't done shit for them out of office either(other then trying to use them for PR purposes).

And no doubt DeSantis is waiting to throw him under the bus the moment he gets a chance, because with Trump out of the way, that clears his way to the GOP Nomination. Considering he lost the 2020 election and helped drag the GOP down in 2022, I have to wonder just how many Republican politicians will be (secretly) happy to see him get carted off, or at least be too pre-occupied with his legal issues to fuck around in their shit.

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of(way too many) fucks who think he's Republican Jesus but it's questionable how many will actually be bothered to organize around him as opposed to using as it an excuse to pull off some domestic terrorism(which is far more likely).

As scary as some of this shit can be, I have to remember that in the lead up to the US Civil War we literally had a mini-civil war happen in Kansas that presaged it and a US Senator try to beat another Senator to death on the Senate floor for hurting his feelings. As scary as shit is, it isn't that scary yet.

I really get the feeling that republicans want trump gone, but they are afraid of trumps base not voting for them. His base is big enough that if they don't vote or go third party then republicans lose pretty hard nationwide. So they want to be seen supporting him without giving him anymore power then they already have. If an indictment sticks and his base fractures then republicans will be more then happy to sweep him under the rug and ignore his existence.

 

[meiam]

I really get the feeling that republicans want trump gone, but they are afraid of trumps base not voting for them. His base is big enough that if they don't vote or go third party then republicans lose pretty hard nationwide. So they want to be seen supporting him without giving him anymore power then they already have. If an indictment sticks and his base fractures then republicans will be more then happy to sweep him under the rug and ignore his existence.

I imagine almost everyone in the GOP just want him and to disappear, the best case scenario is for him to not be able to run due to legal proceeding but still be around, so the GOP can just say "elect us and we'll free Trump". But, honestly I think Trump base will move on from Trump very quickly once a new king is crowned as his replacement. I think the Trump cult follow him because:

1- They thought he was a winner.
2- He was the first to just embrace stupidity and their crazy logic with a "I don't need to explain myself" attitude.

But 1 is crumbling and 2 is easy to copy now that Trump has open that door firmly. No doubt there will always be a couple of cultist who will probably just do stupid terrorist attack here and there, but most other will move on to whoever is the new buffoon master.

At the end of the day I think most of the crazy cultist are just... bored with their life and feel like they lack purpose. So they start imagining enemy everywhere that they need to fight off, but importantly, those fight need to be done in an easy manner, like protest once in awhile but without doing any hard work. They need to see themselves as the David fighting against some mythical Goliath. Trump with his alternative fact made it easy to create enemy (the cabal of pedophile ruling the world, but never mind all the pedophile in the church/GOP) and because he embrace these idiots they could rally around him and find a community just as willing to create a mass delusion to feed their new hobby. DeSantis is trying to do the same with trans as the new boggeyman they need to fight off against and it seems to be working.

 

[Worgen]

I imagine almost everyone in the GOP just want him and to disappear, the best case scenario is for him to not be able to run due to legal proceeding but still be around, so the GOP can just say "elect us and we'll free Trump". But, honestly I think Trump base will move on from Trump very quickly once a new king is crowned as his replacement. I think the Trump cult follow him because:

The loudest will be there for the long run. The republicans tried to ignore trump after jan 6 and they ended up getting scared and going back to him. I think they would try and use trump being imprisoned as way to rally votes, but not really make any meaningful pushes to help him run again. Right now the gop has no one with trumps weird charisma, there are a lot of wannabes but no one that can manage that effortless lying and taking credit.

 

[Kwak]

Won't he just refuse to answer questions, or is that not an option under indictment?
And is indictment different to an arrest? Will he be put in jail?

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Won't he just refuse to answer questions, or is that not an option under indictment?

He can plead the Fifth (the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution provides the right of a defendant or witness to not have to testify against themselves). While that won't harm him at trial- in Federal cases, the prosecutor and jury aren't allowed to view taking the Fifth as an admission of guilt- he has a long history of accusing anyone who pleads the Fifth of being guilty.

And is indictment different to an arrest? Will he be put in jail?

Indictment means he's been charged and he has to submit himself for arrest and processing and enter a plea. From what I've been able to figure out, New York state's criminal laws don't allow for bail to be demanded for the crime Trump's been charged with, so they'll likely release him afterwards.

 

[davidmc1158]

So what I'm hearing is that one of the charges of the two has expired its statute of limitations so the way they're combining them makes it that he'll get off on both. Not sure how accurate that is but either way, this is why they shouldn't have waited this long. If you know he did this stuff you have to act asap.

The statue of limitations was extended in New York by two years because of the issues that came with the pandemic. They haven't expired.

 

[Dalisclock]

So what I'm hearing is that one of the charges of the two has expired its statute of limitations so the way they're combining them makes it that he'll get off on both. Not sure how accurate that is but either way, this is why they shouldn't have waited this long. If you know he did this stuff you have to act asap.

I'd be shocked if the DA's office would make such a dumb move honestly. Especially charging someone like Trump.

 

[Ag3ma]

I'd be shocked if the DA's office would make such a dumb move honestly. Especially charging someone like Trump.

Not half. Prosecutors can make some howlers in notable cases (think Baldwin's recent manslaughter charge), but it's hard to see anything like that happening here.

I've got to say, I have mixed feelings about the indictment. Trump's decades-long history of frauds tells us exactly how much respect he has for the law, and I'd dearly like him to be held more accountable for that history. But this already plays to Trump base suspicions of a "witch hunt" by being a combination of two laws that is not straightforward. If the case is not very solid, it raises the chance Trump sails out the far end with an acquittal, huge PR boost, and his appeals to Republicans seeming more credible.

I think another Trump presidency would be a huge concern for the USA. Not least because Trump is... kind of unhinged, extraordinarily vindictive. He is going to spend four years tearing stuff up and burning things down in revenge, and it's not going to be pretty or constructive. I'd agree that most other senior Republicans hold him in contempt, but they're not willing to risk their necks. Clearly their aim is to support him and keep his base onside in the hope that they persuade enough of his base to switch allegiance to them on the campaign trail. The risk is that all they do is reinforce him enough so he can beat them.

 

[Absent]

At first I was happy about it.

Then I saw Micheal Cohen smile, and, hm, okay, wow, eek, is indiction worth THAT price ?

 

[tstorm823]

The risk is that all they do is reinforce him enough so he can beat them.

One might suggest the actual risk is a nation where political opposition is imprisoned on spurious charges... Like, I have no hesitation agreeing to the idea that the nation would be better off with Trump in prison, but a nation that imprisons people out of convenience is a real bad place to be.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I depends how many of them really want to Risk their necks for Trump at this point considering he didn't do shit for the capitol rioters when he was still in office. Fuck, he hasn't done shit for them out of office either(other then trying to use them for PR purposes).

And no doubt DeSantis is waiting to throw him under the bus the moment he gets a chance, because with Trump out of the way, that clears his way to the GOP Nomination. Considering he lost the 2020 election and helped drag the GOP down in 2022, I have to wonder just how many Republican politicians will be (secretly) happy to see him get carted off, or at least be too pre-occupied with his legal issues to fuck around in their shit.

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of(way too many) fucks who think he's Republican Jesus but it's questionable how many will actually be bothered to organize around him as opposed to using as it an excuse to pull off some domestic terrorism(which is far more likely).

As scary as some of this shit can be, I have to remember that in the lead up to the US Civil War we literally had a mini-civil war happen in Kansas that presaged it and a US Senator try to beat another Senator to death on the Senate floor for hurting his feelings. As scary as shit is, it isn't that scary yet.

Oh pretty much all of them will be happy. I highly doubt they would’ve even bothered with this if he wasn’t serious about running again, or wasn’t legally able to.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

One might suggest the actual risk is a nation where political opposition is imprisoned on spurious charges... Like, I have no hesitation agreeing to the idea that the nation would be better off with Trump in prison, but a nation that imprisons people out of convenience is a real bad place to be.

That also doesn’t really apply to the political elite, who are pretty much legally invulnerable on either side of the spectrum when the chips are down. There’s no bigger rug in human history than the one they created for themselves. Trump ultimately put himself in this position, but also he simply wasn’t part of the cool club (drain the swamp, yada yada).

Trump Should Be Prosecuted. So Should Other Elites Who Have Flagrantly Broken the Law.

The raid and possible prosecution of Donald Trump is a welcome break from decades of elite impunity. But to mean something, it must be a turning point in holding those elites accountable, not an exception.

jacobin.com