Fox & Friends Swipes BioShock Infinite Logo in a Move Levine Calls 'Irony'

Karloff

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Fox & Friends Swipes BioShock Infinite Logo in a Move Levine Calls 'Irony'



Let's Defend the Homeland, cries Fox.

Fox & Friends, in a piece on Governor Rick Perry's response to President Obama's statement on immigration, apparently swiped BioShock Infinite's logo to make its point. Ken Levine tweets [https://twitter.com/IGLevine/status/484397121534435328] that he thinks it's irony, not breach of copyright, which begs the question: does this mean that someone over at Fox has actually played the game through to the end?

The full video can be found over here [http://conservativepost.com/watch-rick-perry-dare-obama-to-meet-him-at-the-border/], if you're feeling keen. Perhaps Governor Perry ought to grow a beard. It might lend him gravitas, but in any case the immigration argument is straight out of Infinite, albeit with Fox's special twist.

"If the President of the United States is really serious about securing the border, we can show him how to do that," Governor Perry moans, "But I haven't even had a phone call from this President."

This isn't the first time a conservative organization has used BioShock's imagery for its own ends. Back in late 2013 a Florida branch of the Tea Party put up BioShock's Guard Against The Foreign Hordes image [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LyAQKfeiss] on its Facebook page, though it's not entirely clear that the group knew what the game was about when it boosted the image.

Ken Levine isn't too worried about it. As he posts on Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/ken.levine.9/posts/10203391065356282], he's "glad to help," though that might have been intended ironically.

Source: VG24/7 [http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/03/fox-news-bioshock-infinite-logo-did-just-rip-off/]


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Lightknight

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Heh, sounds like Fox has competent people behind the scenes. That's far more than I would have given them credit for. If done on purpose, this means that someone behind the scenes is quite brilliant despite anything coming out of other people's mouths.
 

Roxas1359

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Diablo1099 said:
To give Fox News credit, at least it wasn't Bengazi they based their title card on.
Give it time, I'm sure they'll add it in. XD

OT: Reminds me of the time a little after BioShock Infinite came out in which some people in the Tea Party were usings the propoganda Comstick had around Columbia as actually posters for their rallies. The irony in this is just as strong as that one.
 

Riff Moonraker

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I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
 

The Pink Pansy

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Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
I think you're reading too much into that. He was speculating whether or not whomever chose the image was aware of the ideas put forward in the game i.e. that they were taking an image from a game that openly satirizes the extreme political right. From where I sit, he was not saying people on the right don't play games.
 

Micah Weil

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Ya know, Fox...lemme level with ya.
We already know how out of touch with the rest of the world - with reality, if I may - you are.
You do not CONSTANTLY have to go and prove it to us.
We already know.
 

Rellik San

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Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
This post is an example of how political bias not only works is but is incredibly stupid.

"The party I support did something stupid and moronic, in this case relating to video games, so a video game website posts a half mocking piece about it: LIBERAL BIAS!"

And it goes for the Liberals too, they do it just as much.

If your party does something as moronic as this, it's your job to hold them to account for it, I mean these people are the public face of your political opinion and if they are being mocked, they are being mocked because they did or said something stupid and deserve it.
 

Something Amyss

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Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.

Rellik San said:
And it goes for the Liberals too, they do it just as much.
[citation needed]
 

Rellik San

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Rellik San said:
And it goes for the Liberals too, they do it just as much.
[citation needed]
Claim political bias when one of their politicians does something stupid and is called out on it by the media?

Everyone does it, hell I stand left of centre politically and even I'm guilty of it.
 

Karloff

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.
I have heard that some people behind the scenes, as well as two of the hosts, are basically being sell-outs, but still oftentimes sabotage the conversations or programs with minor things here and there.
 

Something Amyss

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MarsAtlas said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.
I have heard that some people behind the scenes, as well as two of the hosts, are basically being sell-outs, but still oftentimes sabotage the conversations or programs with minor things here and there.
I gotta admit, that would be kind of awesome.
 

Rellik San

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Rellik San said:
Everyone does it.
Then it should be incredibly easy to prove.
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/bbc-news-stop-this-media-blackout-of-the-green-party

Studies have shown the BBC is a slightly left leaning but mostly partisan organisation:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10235967/BBC-is-biased-toward-the-left-study-finds.html
 

Monsterfurby

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That reminds me: How is that Libertarian ocean nation project coming along, by the way?

[Stewie Griffin in increasingly high pitched voice]Got some funding already? A group of capable people together? Doing some scouting for equipment? Some luxury ships maybe? Got yourself a mission statement? Some legal groundwork? A plan B? A concrete timeline?[/Stewie Griffin]
 

Karloff

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Zachary Amaranth said:
MarsAtlas said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.
I have heard that some people behind the scenes, as well as two of the hosts, are basically being sell-outs, but still oftentimes sabotage the conversations or programs with minor things here and there.
I gotta admit, that would be kind of awesome.
There is one show host that has been suspected for a long time of being an atheist, and a few people have actually said so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCgOkVn_G9Q

There's also the host that is highly suspected of being gay, and another one that is suspected of being a lesbian (though she might not have her program anymore). Its mostly behind-the-scenes shenanigans from what I hear.
 

Zhukov

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Cousin_IT said:
I'm no expert, but I think that flag is upside down.
Huh. So it is.

Isn't displaying an upside down flag supposed to be like a lynch-worthy mortal sin for yanks?
 

Dalisclock

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Zhukov said:
Cousin_IT said:
I'm no expert, but I think that flag is upside down.
Huh. So it is.

Isn't displaying an upside down flag supposed to be like a lynch-worthy mortal sin for yanks?
It's supposed to be a sign of distress.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Fox happily beats on games for stupid reasons yet uses images when it suits them. Bunch of idiots. Wouldnt be surprised if Fox releases a news clip complaining at their use of Infinite logo promote anti immigration feelings. DAMN VIDEO GAMES!!!!
 

gridsleep

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The world just can't stop giving Fox News more rope. Enough is never enough. But it's like a bad zombie film. No matter how many times they hang themselves, they keep coming back for an encore.
 

kajinking

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Oh god I can't wait to start playing Infinite, I downloaded it but I'm specifically waiting for the 4th to start playing. As for this... Well after the tea party use of propaganda that was SUPPOSED to be Parody of mass American Xenophobia this doesn't seem that bad.
 

Steve the Pocket

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Is it bad that the first thing that stuck out to me was how slapped-together that logo looks? Like, the bevels on the "DEFENDING" don't line up right, like they had done a cut-and-paste job on something else (some other parody?) and the word "HOMELAND" looks like they used too wide a font for the field it's been placed in.
 

EiMitch

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The racist knuckle-dragers that Faux News appeals to are a dying minority. The far right is lashing out harder than ever because its their desperate last stand. They realize, at least intuitively, that they're not the future. And Faux News is happily joining them in obsolescence.

That last part is fine by me. Let that cesspool posing as a news organization go down with the ship.
Karloff said:
Ken Levine isn't too worried about it. As he posts on Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/ken.levine.9/posts/10203391065356282], he's "glad to help," though that might have been intended ironically.
Gee, you think?

I'm convinced that he meant "glad to help" them hang themselves.
gridsleep said:
The world just can't stop giving Fox News more rope. Enough is never enough. But it's like a bad zombie film. No matter how many times they hang themselves, they keep coming back for an encore.
Oh, okay. Glad to help them hang themselves, yet again.

Nitpicker.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if Faux News was entirely aware of the intended meaning of the symbol they appropriated. The far right has had quite the persecution complex lately, so it doesn't strike me as crazy (or it at least strikes me as the less crazy part) that they'd take an icon meant to condemn them and defiantly wear it as a badge of honor.

No, no, no. I mean it. Think about it. If gun-nuts carrying military-grade (or at least military looking) weapons into restaurants can convince themselves that they're freedom-fighting martyrs, then what is so shocking about Faux News equating themselves with Columbia like its a good thing? This is not a new low. This is just the latest self-inflicted indignity of narcissists who mistake their persecution complex for integrity.

But if this is looking too deep into the abyss for your comfort, then by all means just leave it at "Stupid is as stupid does." Mental illness is not for the feint of heart, so nobody will think less of you for it.
 

Karloff

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Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
The irony comes from this being a panic peace about defending against immigrants, a theme Bioshock Infinite is a very harsh satire and deconstruction of. The dangers of unbridled patriotism, wrapping religion up in a flag, xenophobia and the emptiness of the founding myths of a nation are the central themes of Columbia. Themes that run directly counter to the editorial line of Fox News and especially a piece called "Defending the Homeland"

It would be like an antisemitic origination using artwork from the graphic novel Mouse.
 

Pyrian

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So, let's get this straight. An icon deliberately created to be reminiscent of pre-existing far-right American imagery, turns out to be, surprise surprise, vaguely reminiscent of a right-wing American image?

Can we please stop calling something with a few vague similarities "copying"? A lot of lawsuits are based on such fuzzy pseudo-resemblances.
 

JarinArenos

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Honestly, the worse irony here is that they put it alongside a picture of the Statue of Liberty. That's not just pop culture ignorance, that's blatantly ignoring historical symbolism. Tip: go read the damn plaque on the statue, geniuses. ?Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.? Not exactly an indictment of lax immigration laws.

Pyrian said:
So, let's get this straight. An icon deliberately created to be reminiscent of pre-existing far-right American imagery, turns out to be, surprise surprise, vaguely reminiscent of a right-wing American image?

Can we please stop calling something with a few vague similarities "copying"? A lot of lawsuits are based on such fuzzy pseudo-resemblances.
Dude... the thing was directly traced. It even has the same texturing. The only thing changed is the lettering and the upside-down flag instead of the torn one.
 

Pyrian

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JarinArenos said:
Dude... the thing was directly traced. It even has the same texturing. The only thing changed is the lettering and the upside-down flag instead of the torn one.
False, false, and false. The similarities are the shield shapes and positioning, color choices, and motifs, and the latter two are little more than just the standard patriotic motif, anyway - which BS:I copied, not vice-versa. The background texture is almost completely different, the font is different (inverted), the edging of both shields is different, the stars and number of stars are different, really the only notable similarity is the basic shape.
 

JarinArenos

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Pyrian said:
JarinArenos said:
Dude... the thing was directly traced. It even has the same texturing. The only thing changed is the lettering and the upside-down flag instead of the torn one.
False, false, and false. The similarities are the shield shapes and positioning, color choices, and motifs, and the latter two are little more than just the standard patriotic motif, anyway - which BS:I copied, not vice-versa. The background texture is almost completely different, the font is different (inverted), the edging of both shields is different, the stars and number of stars are different, really the only notable similarity is the basic shape.
Best image I've seen of the Fox logo so far. If you have a better one, please share.

(comparison image from Gamespot) Let's see now.
-Shape is the most obvious, and from this angle, you can see that it's not just style that's being copied, but exact proportions. The shapes are identical. Please note that in the Fox logo, the point at the bottom of the small shield is obscured by the water graphic.
-The outer 6 stars are in almost exactly the same position, adding only the two around the weirdly-positioned "the" in the middle.
-Text, same red-with-gold-border. Different font, but considering that they're just using Impact font, I chalk that up to laziness.
-Background, the resolution makes comparison a bit difficult, but turn the blue edging brown, and it would be almost identical.

All in all, this is far beyond stylistic similarities. I'm honestly shocked to see anyone even bothering to genuinely argue it. Hell, the only notable difference is the texturing of the border, which is smooth instead of woven. Almost like this image here...

 

Riff Moonraker

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Rellik San said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
This post is an example of how political bias not only works is but is incredibly stupid.

"The party I support did something stupid and moronic, in this case relating to video games, so a video game website posts a half mocking piece about it: LIBERAL BIAS!"

And it goes for the Liberals too, they do it just as much.

If your party does something as moronic as this, it's your job to hold them to account for it, I mean these people are the public face of your political opinion and if they are being mocked, they are being mocked because they did or said something stupid and deserve it.
Trust me, I have plenty I get angry with on the republican side of the fence, as well. But conservatives arent a party, we just generally side with republicans more often than your further left democrats. Blue dog dems get more conservative support than you might realize, as well.

And you are quite right... political bias is in full swing here, and it is incredibly stupid. Look at how alot of people view conservatives these days... and they generally get it completely wrong.
 

Riff Moonraker

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Scrumpmonkey said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
The irony comes from this being a panic peace about defending against immigrants, a theme Bioshock Infinite is a very harsh satire and deconstruction of. The dangers of unbridled patriotism, wrapping religion up in a flag, xenophobia and the emptiness of the founding myths of a nation are the central themes of Columbia. Themes that run directly counter to the editorial line of Fox News and especially a piece called "Defending the Homeland"

It would be like an antisemitic origination using artwork from the graphic novel Mouse.
I am thinking you mean Maus, but I get your point, and dont disagree with that, either. Trust me, they do some ROYALLY stupid stuff at Fox, too... just much less than MSNBC or CNN. My comment was more directed not at the actual subject, or Ken Levines comments, but the posters comments that seemed to insinuate conservatives dont game.
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.

Rellik San said:
And it goes for the Liberals too, they do it just as much.
[citation needed]
Go and watch some Young Turks...
 

josh4president

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So people are spewing invective at a corporate-owned profit-driven media outlet populated by mindless talking heads as opposed to all the other corporate-owned profit-driven media outlets populated by mindless talking heads.

Makes sense.
 

Tsaba

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Riff Moonraker said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
The irony comes from this being a panic peace about defending against immigrants, a theme Bioshock Infinite is a very harsh satire and deconstruction of. The dangers of unbridled patriotism, wrapping religion up in a flag, xenophobia and the emptiness of the founding myths of a nation are the central themes of Columbia. Themes that run directly counter to the editorial line of Fox News and especially a piece called "Defending the Homeland"

It would be like an antisemitic origination using artwork from the graphic novel Mouse.
I am thinking you mean Maus, but I get your point, and dont disagree with that, either. Trust me, they do some ROYALLY stupid stuff at Fox, too... just much less than MSNBC or CNN. My comment was more directed not at the actual subject, or Ken Levines comments, but the posters comments that seemed to insinuate conservatives dont game.
They all have their moments, some just are more subtle about their stupidity than others:


Alas, if we had to post everything about MSNBC we'd be here a long time. Let's just agree that we need to use multiple sources and should educate ourselves. We need Fox News, CNN, MSNBC/NBC, ABC, BBC, etc.

Also, to add fuel to the fire:


US soldiers, who traditionally vote the right side of the aisle, love video games.... love them.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6780587/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/troops-stationed-iraq-turn-gaming/
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Even if someone at Fox did play Bioshock Infinite, I think most of it would go over their head. After all, it was only a few years ago that Glenn Beck had an on-air moment where he suddenly realised that 'Born in the USA' was critical of America...
 

EiMitch

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josh4president said:
So people are spewing invective at a corporate-owned profit-driven media outlet populated by mindless talking heads as opposed to all the other corporate-owned profit-driven media outlets populated by mindless talking heads.

Makes sense.
I think most people are just laughing at them for ripping-off iconography that was intended to criticize similar people.

And I don't equate Faux News with other corporate media because Faux News clearly prefers to cater to a far worse audience. For goodness sake, they're spinning as "Defending the Homeland" a bunch of racist a-holes who are protesting against immigrants coming to this country by legal means. I emphasized "legal" because the usual excuse for xenophobes is that they only oppose illegal immigration as opposed to all immigration. But thats clearly not the case this time. Those protestors, and Faux News, are being openly and proudly xenophobic.

And I cannot in good conscience equate that with typical media stupidity.
 

lionsprey

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EiMitch said:
josh4president said:
So people are spewing invective at a corporate-owned profit-driven media outlet populated by mindless talking heads as opposed to all the other corporate-owned profit-driven media outlets populated by mindless talking heads.

Makes sense.
I think most people are just laughing at them for ripping-off iconography that was intended to criticize similar people.

And I don't equate Faux News with other corporate media because Faux News clearly prefers to cater to a far worse audience. For goodness sake, they're spinning as "Defending the Homeland" a bunch of racist a-holes who are protesting against immigrants coming to this country by legal means. I emphasized "legal" because the usual excuse for xenophobes is that they only oppose illegal immigration as opposed to all immigration. But thats clearly not the case this time. Those protestors, and Faux News, are being openly and proudly xenophobic.

And I cannot in good conscience equate that with typical media stupidity.
wait a sec. are fox news the "patriotic" constutionion spouting right wing people of the USA anti-immigration? the same USA that's founded on immigration?
 

Karloff

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lionsprey said:
wait a sec. are fox news the "patriotic" constutionion spouting right wing people of the USA anti-immigration? the same USA that's founded on immigration?
One of the great American traditions is immigrating to the United States for a new life while people ***** and whine about how evil your people group is, so that thirty years later you can do the same to new largest group of immigrants. Basically, its like fraternity hazing, with an equal amount of intellectual thought applied.
 

RJ 17

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Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
Just as a heads-up - though having been around here since 2010 you should probably already know this :p - but most of the writers/staff members/forum-goers on this site tend to be leaning towards the left...and that's being generous in the cases of some content providers *cough*MovieBob*cough*. That's why I don't set foot in the Religion and Politics section. :p
 

WWmelb

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RJ 17 said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
Just as a heads-up - though having been around here since 2010 you should probably already know this :p - but most of the writers/staff members/forum-goers on this site tend to be leaning towards the left...and that's being generous in the cases of some content providers *cough*MovieBob*cough*. That's why I don't set foot in the Religion and Politics section. :p
What i don't get about people from the US .. not all but a lot.. talking about their countries citizens leaning left or right.

The political culture in the US as it appears to someone from Australia is that there really isn't even a "Left" in the US. There is Right, and REALLY Fucking Right.

Comparing that to the Left in other countries, particularly some in the EU.

For the record, Australia is about the same for the most part. Though we get a LITTLE further left than the US. Socialized medicine isn't vehemently attacked here for being "Communism" for instance lol.
 

RJ 17

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WWmelb said:
RJ 17 said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
Just as a heads-up - though having been around here since 2010 you should probably already know this :p - but most of the writers/staff members/forum-goers on this site tend to be leaning towards the left...and that's being generous in the cases of some content providers *cough*MovieBob*cough*. That's why I don't set foot in the Religion and Politics section. :p
What i don't get about people from the US .. not all but a lot.. talking about their countries citizens leaning left or right.

The political culture in the US as it appears to someone from Australia is that there really isn't even a "Left" in the US. There is Right, and REALLY Fucking Right.

Comparing that to the Left in other countries, particularly some in the EU.

For the record, Australia is about the same for the most part. Though we get a LITTLE further left than the US. Socialized medicine isn't vehemently attacked here for being "Communism" for instance lol.
Last time I checked, not everyone on this site was from the US. :p

As for the political scales, they vary from country to country. The "mid-point" is for someone from the UK will be different than the "mid-point" for someone from the US. As such, their perceptions of what is "left" and "right" will be different as well.

I'd pontificate a bit more on this subject, but as I said: I stay out the the R&P section of the site for a reason, and have no desire to discuss politics here. :p
 

ckam

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Well, it is ironic. Give it to Levine to be cool about this sort of thing.
 

mega lenin

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No it was not meant to be ironic. Look at all the graphics on the screen that isn't the professionally made fox logo. Fox and Friends' title graphic artist is lazy and total shit on top of it. He's prolly Ken Levine's black sheep nephew or something. I watched the clip it was a wet kiss interview for Rick Perry to grandstand about immigration there is nothing ironic at all going on on the part of the anchors and given the softballs they lobbed at Rick it's pretty clear they were trying to promote his viewpoint rather than subvert it with irony.
 

BehattedWanderer

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Karloff said:
Perhaps Governor Perry ought to grow a beard...
Or get punched in the face. Or thrown off of Columbia. Or rammed with a zeppelin.

Seriously, fuck that guy. Texas needs to lose him and his cadre of cronies and supporters ASAP. Preferably by firing them out of a canon. Or firing a canon at them.
 

reciprocal

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Technically speaking, Mr. Levine, that isn't ironic at all. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
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This is amazing. This is what we get in a world with Fox News.

Good on Ken Levine for taking it in stride. He seems like a level-headed dude. This is exactly the kind of this he was trying to get at with Infinite, so he's just letting it play out.
 

warmachine

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I'm surprised 2K Games aren't suing. Though they probably aren't going to develop more Bioshock Infinite sequels or DLC, I doubt they want people to think they can copy their art assets at will. Fox News seem to using the graphic as part of their headline campaign to push their agenda, not as part of a parody, reference or illustration of Bioshock Infinite.
 

VyseRogueKing

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mega lenin said:
Fox news wasn't using it for irony, it was ironic for Fox News to use it for their segment which in relation to Infinite's themes is the exact opposite.

And some Graphic Artist was pretty lazy. Wouldn't blame him.
 

cojo965

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Could I direct everyone to this rather bizarre Fox news report?


Yes this was a thing.
 

epicdwarf

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So what is the point of this incredibly biased "news" article? Is it simply to crate a thread that usually devolves into a anti-republican circle jerk? If you guys want REAL ridiculous stuff look a CNN. I heard that they are doing a crusade against manga recently.
 

Gearhead mk2

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epicdwarf said:
So what is the point of this incredibly biased "news" article? Is it simply to crate a thread that usually devolves into a anti-republican circle jerk? If you guys want REAL ridiculous stuff look a CNN. I heard that they are doing a crusade against manga recently.
This isn't a big political thing. A game that mentions xenophobia, financial and cultural misuse of religion and extreme American suprematism had its logo stolen by a America centred organisation with a strong religious component to be reused in a borderline xenophobic report. There's some irony in that. It's an issue of hipocrisy and not understanding what you're using, not politics. It's like a restaurant claiming it's the best in town by quote mining all the bad reviews it has, or a murderer going "here's a video of me killing that guy, which is proof I didn't kill him".
 

direkiller

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Zachary Amaranth said:
MarsAtlas said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Considering Fox's body of work, I'm pretty sure they didn't do it ironically. Either that, or they've become the penultimate Poe.
I have heard that some people behind the scenes, as well as two of the hosts, are basically being sell-outs, but still oftentimes sabotage the conversations or programs with minor things here and there.
I gotta admit, that would be kind of awesome.
Judging by the Bill O'reilly/Dave Silvermen talks someone sabotaged something.
Because twice they have made the fox news hardline audience go WTF.
 

epicdwarf

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Gearhead mk2 said:
This isn't a big political thing. A game that mentions xenophobia, financial and cultural misuse of religion and extreme American suprematism had its logo stolen by a America centred organisation with a strong religious component to be reused in a borderline xenophobic report. There's some irony in that. It's an issue of hipocrisy and not understanding what you're using, not politics. It's like a restaurant claiming it's the best in town by quote mining all the bad reviews it has, or a murderer going "here's a video of me killing that guy, which is proof I didn't kill him".
But they only used the game's title graphic. They did not use com stocks propaganda in any way, shape, or form. Yeah the game has themes of xenophobia, but the title graphic does not show it off.
 

Gearhead mk2

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epicdwarf said:
Gearhead mk2 said:
This isn't a big political thing. A game that mentions xenophobia, financial and cultural misuse of religion and extreme American suprematism had its logo stolen by a America centred organisation with a strong religious component to be reused in a borderline xenophobic report. There's some irony in that. It's an issue of hipocrisy and not understanding what you're using, not politics. It's like a restaurant claiming it's the best in town by quote mining all the bad reviews it has, or a murderer going "here's a video of me killing that guy, which is proof I didn't kill him".
But they only used the game's title graphic. They did not use com stocks propaganda in any way, shape, or form. Yeah the game has themes of xenophobia, but the title graphic does not show it off.
Doesn't matter. Either they didn't know or didn't care about the game's messages and thought it would be suitable to use, or they did know and care and are trolling people. In the first case, they shouldn't have used something they didn't understand, and in the second, they're deliberately trying to annoy people. And no mater what, they used an edited version of a copyrighted image without giving pay or credit to the original creator.

And there was a tea party in Florida that did use Comstock's propaganda, so...
 

Therumancer

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Neronium said:
Diablo1099 said:
To give Fox News credit, at least it wasn't Bengazi they based their title card on.
Give it time, I'm sure they'll add it in. XD

OT: Reminds me of the time a little after BioShock Infinite came out in which some people in the Tea Party were usings the propoganda Comstick had around Columbia as actually posters for their rallies. The irony in this is just as strong as that one.
The Irony isn't quite what you might think. To be honest I've been of the opinion for a while that on a lot of levels "Bioshock" has gone over the heads of the people who play it.

Spoilers Below:

To put this into context in the original "Bioshock" a lot of people were jumping up and down saying that game "zapped" Ayn Rand. The problem with this is that while it starts out that way, eventual revelations in the game turn the message into the opposite, or at least make it very neutral. After all "Rapture" worked just fine as an institution, it wasn't a uptopia by any means, but it was functional, and most people were fairly happy. The problems actually came from a revolutionary who pretty much wrecked it. Indeed one of the big moments of the game is when you find out that while no saint, the guy you think is the bad guy really isn't, and he's the one who enables you to set things right. Now "Bioshock 2" which is generally agreed to be a far inferior game, got that way in part because it pretty much gave people what they thought the first game was about, by exaggerating the problems with the status quo, and making Ryan out to be a lot worse than he was supposed to be, which kind of ruins the impact of the big reveal in the first game.

When it comes to "Columbia", where this is from, as a general rule you can't say there isn't a lot wrong with what Comstock is doing to begin with. Basically, he disagreed with US policy, so he left. His disagreements weren't even that unreasonable, he did things like go to war for the US, putting his entire city at risk, and then was told to stand down for political reasons before the situation could be resolved. While the boxer rebellion was the example, this basic metaphor could be used for a lot of other wars like Veitnam, or even the current War On Terror, where soldiers are called upon to put their lives in danger, and then sent home with the job incomplete by politicians, rendering their efforts, losses, and risks, irrelevant due to never having achieved the intended objectives, from which politicians might have been holding them back to begin with. While the recent upswing in chaos in The Middle East after Obama's troop pullbacks hadn't happened at the time "infinite" was released, a lot of people (including me) were pretty bloody sure this was coming. I think part of what "Infinite" did here was make a statement it's developers figured would seem visionary in response to upcoming events.

"Infinite" also involves several "X" factors involved in what happens. For example it can be argued a certain industrialist is the actual bad guy of the piece, which some people leaning left were upset about because Comstock is more like their stereotypical villain. What's more it subverts it's initial expectations by making it so that the final bad guys are not the statement like Comstock, or the Industialists like Fink, but the social revolutionaries who wind up being worse and more mindlessly destructive than either of the other groups, despite everyone having their failures. Indeed there is a sort of message in everything being destroyed, while the other forces (including Songbird) work together to try and stop the revolutionaries.

On a certain fundamental level, Bioshock also points out that just because your an immigrant doesn't mean your going to get a free ride. Sure the people who arrive on Columbia are poor and desperate, but why immigrate to such a place with finite jobs being available? Showing up on the doorstep and saying "your responsible for me" isn't entirely fair, and destroying everything when you get slotted off about your own stupidity doesn't benefit anyone, including you.

Basically Infinite has a straightforward message which is very "left wing" (if anyone never noticed I use quotes for a reason in most of my messages) while it also subverts it to have the opposite message when you actually look at the game. Granted everything generally comes out being fairly balanced... after all, at the end of the day in Infinite the entire destruction of Columbia is presented as being a positive thing, because in the future Columbia was going to destroy New York City for some largely undisclosed reason... and the person in command was going to be Elizabeth who wound up having second thoughts about it leading to some of the temporal misadventures when you get down to it. A lot of this can of course be blame on Comstock and the way he treated her, but at the same time that had little to do with Columbia itself or the principles it was based on.

I think the right wing doesn't really miss the point, but rather a lot of critics do. The only part the right wing misses is that some of the statements made were justified by Columbia cedeing from the union. Comstock did not turn his guns on the USA (though Elizabeth did in the future)) because he disagreed with the way policies were going, instead he chose to leave. On some ways this is glorifying the civil war, and at it's most radical could probably be a way of saying that a lot of the so called "Red States" should feel entitled to simply leave the country, where they can set their own policies if they disagree with the way the blue states are going.

As a general rule I think the USA is stronger together, but at the same time I do think within the scope of principles here different Americans have the right to live the way they want within their own interpretation of things. On a lot of levels I feel this is why there were separate states to begin with, and a lot of issues exist because of a federal government telling people how they have to live and interpret things, and forcing people to accept things they are deadest against in pursuit of a particular view of "the greater good". "Social Justice" to one person is not for
someone else. One of my big concerns with current political trends is that it's going to lead to another civil war where states are going to try and break off again, OR one side or the other is going to start a revolution to take back the country (which is bad given the divide is nearly 50-50). I think on some levels what "Infinite" was saying is that if you disagree with what the country should stand for that strongly, feel free to take your land and leave. Albeit it's easier to do with a flying super-city than it is to deal with say Texas, Arizonia, etc.. suddenly saying "we're now the Confederated States of America" or whatever and establishing their own governments while refusing to acknowledge US policy, debt, etc... and instead setting their own. This is the area where Fox News kind of misses the point, since the end result of that revolutionary dogma was "we're going to go somewhere else to live how we want and take our resources with us" not a matter of changing the US. The US wound up losing a lot of science and wonder out of the deal, as well as it's best weapon. Had Columbia decided it just flat out wanted to change the US, nothing could have stopped it as Elizabeth demonstrated in the future, even around the 1980s the US was apparently powerless before the science of Columbia (as retro as it looked, it was actually using stuff far beyond what we have today).
 

Not G. Ivingname

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I wonder how long it will take before they embarrass themselves by claiming the logo was developed independently or that "vidia gaeme" is a horrible corrupting influence and "unAmerican."

Steve the Pocket said:
Is it bad that the first thing that stuck out to me was how slapped-together that logo looks? Like, the bevels on the "DEFENDING" don't line up right, like they had done a cut-and-paste job on something else (some other parody?) and the word "HOMELAND" looks like they used too wide a font for the field it's been placed in.
Cousin_IT said:
I'm no expert, but I think that flag is upside down.
This just pushes this beyond the point of irony and into the place of "pure incompetence." It is almost forgivable that they put this on their logo. I am certain this was created by some underpaid intern who photoshopped it from a free template that was found online, and the old men who approved the logo didn't know about or play through the game. However, the fact it such a lazy design o just twists the knife that further in. Just that a person, actually, a committee looked at this design and said "this is high enough quality to be put on live television in front of millions of viewers," speaks volumes about Fox news.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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cojo965 said:
Could I direct everyone to this rather bizarre Fox news report?


Yes this was a thing.
._.

Wow. I am not sure what is worse. That this was considered newsworth, that they called footage all over the internet "exclusive", or "Grand Theft Mario Kart."
 

epicdwarf

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Gearhead mk2 said:
Doesn't matter. Either they didn't know or didn't care about the game's messages and thought it would be suitable to use, or they did know and care and are trolling people. In the first case, they shouldn't have used something they didn't understand, and in the second, they're deliberately trying to annoy people. And no mater what, they used an edited version of a copyrighted image without giving pay or credit to the original creator.

And there was a tea party in Florida that did use Comstock's propaganda, so...
In all honesty, I think it was an accident. Probably some lazy graphics desigenr that thought it would be "funny" to use the logo. There is not a single news network that would even dare do something like this on purpose.

In defense of the Tea Party: It is a large political movement. You are bound to find ingorant people in it.
 

alj

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Nov 20, 2009
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epicdwarf said:
There is not a single news network that would even dare do something like this on purpose.
Good thing that FOX is not a news network, well at least not what the rest of the civilized world would call a news outlet. Fox news is sensationalist rubbish that the "even more right" (because if america had a left then that would be progress) can watch to reinforce there views.

Its kind of scary and i do feel sorry for people that have to deal with that kind of stuff on a day to day basis, its bad enough looking in from the outside.
 

Riff Moonraker

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Tsaba said:
Riff Moonraker said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
The irony comes from this being a panic peace about defending against immigrants, a theme Bioshock Infinite is a very harsh satire and deconstruction of. The dangers of unbridled patriotism, wrapping religion up in a flag, xenophobia and the emptiness of the founding myths of a nation are the central themes of Columbia. Themes that run directly counter to the editorial line of Fox News and especially a piece called "Defending the Homeland"

It would be like an antisemitic origination using artwork from the graphic novel Mouse.
I am thinking you mean Maus, but I get your point, and dont disagree with that, either. Trust me, they do some ROYALLY stupid stuff at Fox, too... just much less than MSNBC or CNN. My comment was more directed not at the actual subject, or Ken Levines comments, but the posters comments that seemed to insinuate conservatives dont game.
They all have their moments, some just are more subtle about their stupidity than others:


Exactly!! :) Thanks for taking the time and effort to describe what I meant waaaaay better than I would have, lol!!

Alas, if we had to post everything about MSNBC we'd be here a long time. Let's just agree that we need to use multiple sources and should educate ourselves. We need Fox News, CNN, MSNBC/NBC, ABC, BBC, etc.

Also, to add fuel to the fire:


US soldiers, who traditionally vote the right side of the aisle, love video games.... love them.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6780587/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/troops-stationed-iraq-turn-gaming/
 

Riff Moonraker

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RJ 17 said:
Riff Moonraker said:
I am sorry, but the OP has lost their mind if they dont think conservatives can also be gamers. Being a gamer does NOT mean you are necessarily a liberal, left winger. Maybe he didnt mean it to come off that way, but jeez...
Just as a heads-up - though having been around here since 2010 you should probably already know this :p - but most of the writers/staff members/forum-goers on this site tend to be leaning towards the left...and that's being generous in the cases of some content providers *cough*MovieBob*cough*. That's why I don't set foot in the Religion and Politics section. :p
Yeah, I know. :) I try to do the same thing, although sometimes I simply cannot help myself!!!
 

epicdwarf

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alj said:
Good thing that FOX is not a news network, well at least not what the rest of the civilized world would call a news outlet. Fox news is sensationalist rubbish that the "even more right" (because if america had a left then that would be progress) can watch to reinforce there views.

Its kind of scary and i do feel sorry for people that have to deal with that kind of stuff on a day to day basis, its bad enough looking in from the outside.
Fox News is just as valid as a news network as MSNBC and CNN. They all twist information. They all produce shock reports. They all have their own crusades against something(most of the time an escape goat).
 

Rutskarn

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Therumancer said:
Neronium said:
Diablo1099 said:
To give Fox News credit, at least it wasn't Bengazi they based their title card on.
Give it time, I'm sure they'll add it in. XD

OT: Reminds me of the time a little after BioShock Infinite came out in which some people in the Tea Party were usings the propoganda Comstick had around Columbia as actually posters for their rallies. The irony in this is just as strong as that one.
The Irony isn't quite what you might think. To be honest I've been of the opinion for a while that on a lot of levels "Bioshock" has gone over the heads of the people who play it.
I disagree. Rapture wasn't a paradise ruined by renegades--plenty of audio logs point to other systems at the heart of Rapture's decline. Two relevant audio logs:

1.) The janitor frustrated at the fact that he hasn't been successful yet. When you set up your society as "the best and brightest will live like kings!", everyone who shows up does so because they think they're the best and brightest. As it turns out, someone still needs to mop the floors. This is the core disenchantment at the heart of Rapture: when you've got a forest of nothing but wolves, some of them have to eat grass and be hunted, and the are not going to be happy.

2.) Andrew Ryan's "we must not regulate." All side-conflict aside, one of the key decisions that crippled Rapture was Andrew Ryan's refusal to implement regulation against the use of Adam, reasoning that to do so was outside the government's bailiwick. He reasoned that market forces alone would gradually restrict the use of the destructive, addictive, mentally corrosive substance. Whatever you want to pin the exact turning point of Rapture's decline on, fact is--market forces failed. Failing to regulate Adam or intervene in treating its addicts greatly exacerbated the decline of Rapture.
 

Haru17

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One of their local new stations stole the indoor theme from Zelda as well. I guess that's just how 'job creators' do things, by riding the coat tails of actual creators.
 

Haru17

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epicdwarf said:
alj said:
Good thing that FOX is not a news network, well at least not what the rest of the civilized world would call a news outlet. Fox news is sensationalist rubbish that the "even more right" (because if america had a left then that would be progress) can watch to reinforce there views.

Its kind of scary and i do feel sorry for people that have to deal with that kind of stuff on a day to day basis, its bad enough looking in from the outside.
Fox News is just as valid as a news network as MSNBC and CNN. They all twist information. They all produce shock reports. They all have their own crusades against something(most of the time an escape goat).
NOT AN ESCAPE GOAT!!! Pro Tip: Maybe someone who doesn't know what a scapegoat is called shouldn't be listened to about matters fundamental to democracy, like the media.
 

epicdwarf

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Haru17 said:
NOT AN ESCAPE GOAT!!! Pro Tip: Maybe someone who doesn't know what a scapegoat is called shouldn't be listened to about matters fundamental to democracy, like the media.
Sorry that I used the slang for scapegoat. That kind of stuff sometimes goes under my radar. No need to be rude about it.
 

Karloff

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Heh, it looks like the guy/gal who does the backgrounds for FOX is a comedian. A damn good one, too. Bioshock Infinite is about how super patriotism can get fucked up at some point, and the old fuckheads at FOX didn't catch on.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Rutskarn said:
Therumancer said:
Neronium said:
Diablo1099 said:
To give Fox News credit, at least it wasn't Bengazi they based their title card on.
Give it time, I'm sure they'll add it in. XD

OT: Reminds me of the time a little after BioShock Infinite came out in which some people in the Tea Party were usings the propoganda Comstick had around Columbia as actually posters for their rallies. The irony in this is just as strong as that one.
The Irony isn't quite what you might think. To be honest I've been of the opinion for a while that on a lot of levels "Bioshock" has gone over the heads of the people who play it.
I disagree. Rapture wasn't a paradise ruined by renegades--plenty of audio logs point to other systems at the heart of Rapture's decline. Two relevant audio logs:

1.) The janitor frustrated at the fact that he hasn't been successful yet. When you set up your society as "the best and brightest will live like kings!", everyone who shows up does so because they think they're the best and brightest. As it turns out, someone still needs to mop the floors. This is the core disenchantment at the heart of Rapture: when you've got a forest of nothing but wolves, some of them have to eat grass and be hunted, and the are not going to be happy.

2.) Andrew Ryan's "we must not regulate." All side-conflict aside, one of the key decisions that crippled Rapture was Andrew Ryan's refusal to implement regulation against the use of Adam, reasoning that to do so was outside the government's bailiwick. He reasoned that market forces alone would gradually restrict the use of the destructive, addictive, mentally corrosive substance. Whatever you want to pin the exact turning point of Rapture's decline on, fact is--market forces failed. Failing to regulate Adam or intervene in treating its addicts greatly exacerbated the decline of Rapture.
I took that as being more in line with pointing out that no society is ever going to be a complete utopia. The best you can hope for is for the majority of people to be happy and provided for at any given time. The fact that someone still has to take out the trash isn't really a societal failing. Ryan's system did lead to incredible discoveries and was very workable. Even the regulation of ADAM and EVE wasn't that big a deal, as the entire thing fell apart due to a revolutionary trying to take the entire thing over. Even the greatest empire can be toppled by rats in the walls so
to speak.

If anything I think Ryan's biggest flaw was total isolationism, and hiding. Once he was established and Rapture was able to defend itself, it probably shouldn't have tried to remain shut off from the rest of the world, and indeed it could be said paranoia was it's downfall (consider who Ryan thinks you work for initially) by allowing the revolution to gain traction, after all Ryan's opposition wasn't entirely based on competing science, but because they were smuggling outside goods people wanted into Rapture.

Don't get me wrong, Rapture obviously failed, but the point here is that it was more of a personal failure than one of the basic ideas of philosophy. Rapture did not fail due to a form of "objectivism", indeed it thrived because of it. Rather it fell prey to anarchist rebels who sought to take it over, and destroyed a system it was not idealogically prepared to maintain. On a lot of levels it's also a statement about how revolution without a clear plan isn't a positive thing. It's nice to say "we all agree this system has problems, let's tear it down" but when you have a dozen different ideas on what it should be replaced with, and all anyone can agree on is getting rid of the current system, that just doesn't work. In Rapture the guy running the revolution was on a personal power trip, and just told people what they wanted to hear, he had no real plan other than self empowerment and enrichment, of course the people following him never bothered to think about this or the fact that he didn't really represent any of them by claiming to represent all of them (so to speak).