Funny events in anti-woke world

Silvanus

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[...] creatives lack the talent to deliver something greater than morality play [...]
Pretty bold idea that morality plays are necessarily lesser. We're talking A Christmas Carol, Faust, Aesop and a good number of formative Greek playwrites. Even quite a dose of Shakespeare.

People just got uncomfortable with certain themes in their art, so they fooled themselves into thinking old/good art didn't have them and was just funsies.

((Note: I assume (perhaps wrongly) that you're using 'morality play' to refer broadly to works in which the moral is central and dominant to the point where the rest of the work can be said to serve it. Rather than using 'morality play' in the scholarly sense, because that latter sense would be inapplicable to games like Far Cry 5)).
 
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Thaluikhain

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Pretty bold idea that morality plays are necessarily lesser. We're talking A Christmas Carol, Faust, Aesop and a good number of formative Greek playwrites. Even quite a dose of Shakespeare.

People just got uncomfortable with certain themes in their art, so they fooled themselves into thinking old/good art didn't have them and was just funsies.
And/or that progressives have changed due to well, progress. Having a black person on the Enterprise doesn't frighten people nowdays, who might consider Star Trek never to be frighteningly progressive.
 
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Hades

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That's rather the point. O'Bannon and Scott had clear themes in mind, but what they produced didn't browbeat the audience with those intended themes, or condemn them for taking away something other than it or other aspects of it. Or to put it another way, Alien wasn't a morality play. That's the chief criticism at heart here: recent works are little more than morality play, creatives lack the talent to deliver something greater than morality play, and intended audiences aren't strong enough critical thinkers to understand more than morality play.
Who decides those things though? Because one of the big controversy with Lightyear was a same sex kiss that barely passed the one second mark, and the far right also tried to pretend that Peach wearing pants was a morality play. You also have the far right decrying Disney Star Wars as a morality play despite those films in general barely having a message when compared to the previous films.
 

BrawlMan

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Newsflash: crime simulator named after a crime has too much crime in it or rather, the wrong kind of crime
Why do these jackasses care now? Musk is being his stupid and egotistical self, but you can kill cops in GTA since the first game. Is this news to them? Have they never thought of this once before in their entire miserable lives? There's being ignorant, and then there's being intentionally obliviously and playing dumb.
 

Bedinsis

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Newsflash: crime simulator named after a crime has too much crime in it
Eh, it's such a high profile series that it makes sense one would try it even if one finds the basic premise sounding unappealing.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Newsflash: crime simulator named after a crime has too much crime in it or rather, the wrong kind of crime
What a sad soppy pile of wet flimsy flannels these lot are. Glad we can throw away their claims of being tough manly guys for good now. Bloody pathetic tools. Though part of me wonders how much of this is just weird far-right virtue signaling hoping to woo off any future criminal investigations they may be worrying about. So much of body cam footage involving the "back the blue" types consistently show they actually believe voicing such ideology to the arresting police will get them off.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Newsflash: crime simulator named after a crime has too much crime in it or rather, the wrong kind of crime
So he has played Vice City and San Andreas. Maybe do some research into what you proudly proclaim to boycot, huh.

Also, I love conservative ghouls trying to act cool for not playing GTA. I'm sure that'll strike a cord with the youth guys.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Why do these jackasses care now? Musk is being his stupid and egotistical self, but you can kill cops in GTA since the first game. Is this news to them? Have they never thought of this once before in their entire miserable lives? There's being ignorant, and then there's being intentionally obliviously and playing dumb.
That's both easy to answer and mind bogglingly pathetic: when Rockstar dropped their GTA 6 trailer, they linked to their YouTube instead of hosting it natively on X (formerly known as twitter)
 

Eacaraxe

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Note: I assume (perhaps wrongly) that you're using 'morality play' to refer broadly to works in which the moral is central and dominant to the point where the rest of the work can be said to serve it.
You assume wrongly. I'm referring to actual morality play; that is to say, that particularly dogshit flavor of Medieval theater that amounted to little more than Catholic (and some Protestant) propaganda. Specifically, the trait characteristic to morality play I invoke is paper-thin plot and characterization, in which characters were simple personifications of virtue and vice, and the plot was simply a vehicle by which a predetermined maxim was impressed upon an audience.

They fell out of favor during the Enlightenment period for good reason.

The specific reason I mention Far Cry 5 here, is that game wore its themes and message clear for all to see. Sure, one needs at least a working knowledge of US politics and history to make the connection between Jacob Seed and Timothy McVeigh (US Army Gulf War veteran marksmen who were radicalized in the military), John Seed and Fred Phelps (viciously litigious and land-stealing attorneys), and Faith Seed and Charles Manson (mind control and indoctrination through psychadelics, propaganda, and music).

One probably needs a more specialized education in right-wing extremism to recognize the similarities between Joseph's Compound and the Aryan Nation's compound on Hayden Lake, Eden's Gate and The Organization in Turner Diaries, and Joseph's idea of "the Collapse" and...well, The Collapse in Turner Diaries (which also bears striking similarity to Manson's idea of Helter Skelter). And one certainly needs to have living memory to understand how the raid on Joseph's Compound at the beginning bears similarities to Ruby Ridge, and how the raid at the end bears similarities to Waco.

But really, that Joseph Seed's appearance and demeanor was based directly off David Koresh should really be the Rosetta stone, and get people wondering what else lies under the hood and start considering the game's content in context. Of course, that minor subtlety was entirely lost on people who envision themselves authoritative enough on right-wing extremism to speak about it in journalistic publications. But nah, cult game bad because it didn't bash Trump enough.

In other words, Far Cry 5 was objectionable specifically for not being morality play.

People just got uncomfortable with certain themes in their art, so they fooled themselves into thinking old/good art didn't have them and was just funsies.
The right-wing moron grift-o-sphere, sure, I'll agree with that. But let's be careful to not throw all critics of contemporary pop culture entertainment into that category, shall we?
 

Casual Shinji

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Without realizing it (?) these "anti-SJWs" and "facts don't care about your feelings" dudebros have hitched their wagon behind authoritarianism and facism, and now this is the path they're just going to follow blindly. Shooting cops in games was never an issue with these people, just as getting vaccinated never was. but now that their side is fully pro-cop (and anti-vax) killing cops in a vidjagame kinda makes their brains shortcircuit. I guess it's the level-up of the reactionary outrage machine after women, gay people and pronouns. We'll see how it goes and if the usual youtube ghouls will actually try to spin the narrative of this game being anti-cop (which it probably is, but then this franchise always has been).
 
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Silvanus

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You assume wrongly. I'm referring to actual morality play; that is to say, that particularly dogshit flavor of Medieval theater that amounted to little more than Catholic (and some Protestant) propaganda. Specifically, the trait characteristic to morality play I invoke is paper-thin plot and characterization, in which characters were simple personifications of virtue and vice, and the plot was simply a vehicle by which a predetermined maxim was impressed upon an audience.

They fell out of favor during the Enlightenment period for good reason.

The specific reason I mention Far Cry 5 here, is that game wore its themes and message clear for all to see. Sure, one needs at least a working knowledge of US politics and history to make the connection between Jacob Seed and Timothy McVeigh (US Army Gulf War veteran marksmen who were radicalized in the military), John Seed and Fred Phelps (viciously litigious and land-stealing attorneys), and Faith Seed and Charles Manson (mind control and indoctrination through psychadelics, propaganda, and music).

One probably needs a more specialized education in right-wing extremism to recognize the similarities between Joseph's Compound and the Aryan Nation's compound on Hayden Lake, Eden's Gate and The Organization in Turner Diaries, and Joseph's idea of "the Collapse" and...well, The Collapse in Turner Diaries (which also bears striking similarity to Manson's idea of Helter Skelter). And one certainly needs to have living memory to understand how the raid on Joseph's Compound at the beginning bears similarities to Ruby Ridge, and how the raid at the end bears similarities to Waco.

But really, that Joseph Seed's appearance and demeanor was based directly off David Koresh should really be the Rosetta stone, and get people wondering what else lies under the hood and start considering the game's content in context. Of course, that minor subtlety was entirely lost on people who envision themselves authoritative enough on right-wing extremism to speak about it in journalistic publications. But nah, cult game bad because it didn't bash Trump enough.

In other words, Far Cry 5 was objectionable specifically for not being morality play.
That's pretty bizarre then, since nobody is making or asking for late-medieval/Tudor plays.

Modern discussion generally focuses on 'morality plays' in the former sense, and never the latter.

The right-wing moron grift-o-sphere, sure, I'll agree with that. But let's be careful to not throw all critics of contemporary pop culture entertainment into that category, shall we?
Only the ones pushing the ridiculous notion that media must ignore or bury political/moral themes, or the ahistoric notion that good/old media didn't have them front and centre.
 
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BrawlMan

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I don't think the goal in any GTA was to shoot police officers. It's always to make money, or get revenge on someone or something. I mean, you shoot a lot of police officers on the way...

Well, okay, no. I guess in San Andreas the final goal was to shoot a police officer.
San Andreas is more so about CJ "doing it 4 da hood/family" than the goal being cop killing. There are corrupt cops that reoccurring villainous characters they will be killed at some point, but it's no different from your usual corrupt cop or politician in a GTA game. One of those corrupt cops being played by Samuel L. Jackson.

I never liked San Andreas much, and Frank ended up becoming the better CJ.
 

Cicada 5

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Doesn't the series have games that penalize you if you kill too many cops?
 

bluegate

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Doesn't the series have games that penalize you if you kill too many cops?
In the ones that I briefly played killing cops would only ever summon more of the blighters to the point that you'd almost have to start using cheats to get out alive.
 
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Terminal Blue

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That's the chief criticism at heart here: recent works are little more than morality play, creatives lack the talent to deliver something greater than morality play, and intended audiences aren't strong enough critical thinkers to understand more than morality play.
Well, I think the problem you've identified is that media isn't made by creatives, it's made by corporations. This has always been true to a large extent, but it has become increasingly obvious. It's just intellectual property, and the point of making media is to increase the value of said intellectual property. The inevitable result is that public relations and brand image end up driving narrative, which clamps down on the possibility of interesting or complex stories.

But this is not universal. There are still creative people making media, there is still a place for media that is morally and thematically complex, and yet the same "anti-woke" crowd seem to find this deeply objectionable. The Witch is frankly far more complex and subtle in its politics than Alien.

Case in point, look at how progressive critics responded poorly to Far Cry 5. The game was literally a "what if?" scenario involving David Koresh, the Westboro Baptist Church, Manson Family, and Timothy McVeigh forming a right-wing extremist cult supergroup, based out of Hayden Lake, to enact the Turner Diaries.
I feel like you've misunderstood the criticism.

If I had to pick one word to describe Far Cry 5, and to an extent the entire Far Cry franchise, it would be pretentious. It's pretentious in the sense that it wants to present itself as a smart game with something to say, but is too afraid to actually say anything because it doesn't want to alienate anyone. How does the game actually convey any of the references you mentioned outside of pure aesthetics? What criticism is it making of extreme right-wing beliefs?

See, there's a very obvious point of comparison here. Midsommar is a film that uses a new age cult as a metaphorical stand in for extreme right-wing politics. It is also intentionally deceptive and subtle about this, because the point is to show why those politics are attractive and how easy it is to be drawn into them. But at the end of the day, it still has something to say. There are actual observations and criticisms being made not necessarily of right-wing beliefs explicitly but certainly of the psychological mechanisms by which they work.

What is Far Cry 5 actually saying about extreme right wing beliefs beyond "gee, it sure does suck when cults murder people?" That's not a clever or interesting point, it's not worthy of the seriousness of the topics the game makes an occasional effort to aesthetically reference. If the choice is between preaching and saying nothing, then I'll still take preachy any day.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Doesn't the series have games that penalize you if you kill too many cops?
I mean, technically all of them do. You commit too many crimes, kill too many cops, and eventually the army/federal agents and attack choppers come after you. But then that is the fun. I'm sure I'm not the only one who tried to get as high a star rating to see how long I'd survive. Barricading myself in a parking garage, getting on top of a speeding semi truck, or climbing a board the back of a train, and then showing those pigs what for.