Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Silvanus

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It goes against basic mechanisms of how the body processes sugar. The CDC article here says saturated fats are bad for your heart, that's been disproven.
Lol, no it hasn't. It goes against your simplistic idea of the bodily mechanisms involved, that's all, but that's because you seem to think a symptom and a cause are the same.

The thing with sumo wrestlers is that it is hard for them to change their diet after their career.

Glucose tolerance is a parameter that may be compensated for by continuous exercise and increased skeletal muscle mass; therefore, the blood glucose level was lower in the sumo group.
Whenever you post something like this, it always becomes clear very quickly that you haven't properly read it.

PUBMED STUDY said:
This study enrolled 14 male children (age: 9-17 years; sumo experience mean: 4.7 ± 1 years; medical history: asthma [n = 5] and allergy [n = 5]) from a local sumo wrestling club (sumo group). This group included nine designated certified prefectural athletes who were proficient to participate in the national tournament in Japan. Moreover, we enrolled 56 male children (age: 9-14 years) who were diagnosed with primary or simple obesity in an pediatric obesity outpatient clinic of a hospital between 2012 and 2020.
So, uhrm, yes, there was a lower blood glucose level among the junior sumo group... in comparison with other children with obesity who weren't athletes. And your own source also makes it very clear that it comes with severe health downsides-- and it doesn't even dispute anything to do with diabetes!

That literally happened... Just because it's a meme image doesn't make it untrue.
What's untrue is the implication that experts and dieticians don't criticise highly processed or sugar-rich foods. They do. All the time.

And here is the problem with most nutritional studies. They are all observational / questionnaire studies full of inaccuracies and bias.
You just cited a goddamn lifestyle fluff piece and a study you didn't properly read.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Lol, no it hasn't. It goes against your simplistic idea of the bodily mechanisms involved, that's all, but that's because you seem to think a symptom and a cause are the same.



Whenever you post something like this, it always becomes clear very quickly that you haven't properly read it.



So, uhrm, yes, there was a lower blood glucose level among the junior sumo group... in comparison with other children with obesity who weren't athletes. And your own source also makes it very clear that it comes with severe health downsides-- and it doesn't even dispute anything to do with diabetes!



What's untrue is the implication that experts and dieticians don't criticise highly processed or sugar-rich foods. They do. All the time.



You just cited a goddamn lifestyle fluff piece and a study you didn't properly read.
Where is your actual evidence that saturated fats are bad? The person that started it, Ancel Keys, cherry-picked his data, the claim that saturated fat leads to heart disease was never proven in science.

I never said anything about being obese not having any health drawbacks. I said it's not a direct cause to diabetes. Hence, their blood glucose level was lower. Sumo wrestlers don't develop visceral fat around the pancreas like a obese person (or a skinny fat Indian) on their way to diabetes.

Fat stored around the pancreas is far more important in determining the development of type 2 diabetes than overall body fat

In New York, it is literally illegal for school kids to drink actual whole milk, but they are allowed to drink skim chocolate milk. The milk with less sugar and more fat is literally outlawed but the milk with more sugar and less fat is allowed. Fucking clown world just like the meme.

Do you not understand the basis of how these associations are reached?
 

tstorm823

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Nah, I'm not a fan of batter covering my steak because I like to see where the fat is and cut it off (I hate the texture of fat actually). That's the only instance of fried red meat I can think of.
Corn dogs? Schnitzel? Fried hamburger steak? Plenty of options for the dedicated deep fryer.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Corn dogs? Schnitzel? Fried hamburger steak? Plenty of options for the dedicated deep fryer.
I forgot about corn dogs, haven't had one in freaking ages. I guess the one thing I do love that's fried red meat is a giant pork tenderloin sandwich but I have to travel to central Indiana to get one.

1709245228195.png
 

Ag3ma

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Are you not embarrassed?
To be embarrassed, one would have to be competent or honest enough to realise one was making a mistake.

We are talking about someone who insists that knowing a biological mechanism is sufficient justification to prove that "too much" (still undefined) sugar guarantees someone will get diabetes, but refuses to accept that physical / biological mechanisms are worth anything to defend why masks might stop covid. 🤷‍♂️

Also someone won't accept a study using "associations" to demonstrate that certain fats might be bad for health because associations are inadequate evidence, but will use associations to claim that certain types of fats are "proven" (!) to not cause cardiovascular disease, where they suddenly do seem to be valid. 🤷‍♂️

But there's also a pattern in there. He's just finding alleged "experts" and forming an obsessional attachment to their ideas, be it Lustig for diet, Vinay Prasad for masks, Pierre Kory for ivermectin. All you need to do is find whichever crank he's latched onto and then you may as well just read the arguments from the horse's mouth and skip the incompetent defence on the forums.
 

Silvanus

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Where is your actual evidence that saturated fats are bad? The person that started it, Ancel Keys, cherry-picked his data, the claim that saturated fat leads to heart disease was never proven in science.
No interest in going down this rabbit hole.

I never said anything about being obese not having any health drawbacks. I said it's not a direct cause to diabetes. Hence, their blood glucose level was lower. Sumo wrestlers don't develop visceral fat around the pancreas like a obese person (or a skinny fat Indian) on their way to diabetes.
Do you understand the difference between a direct cause and a risk factor?

The link you posted solely shows that (Junior) Sumo wrestlers tended to have lower blood glucose than non-athlete obese children. That's very clearly not evidence that Sumo wrestlers experience no higher risk of diabetes. My post directly attests to that higher incidence.

The rest is irrelevant waffle again.
 

Phoenixmgs

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To be embarrassed, one would have to be competent or honest enough to realise one was making a mistake.

We are talking about someone who insists that knowing a biological mechanism is sufficient justification to prove that "too much" (still undefined) sugar guarantees someone will get diabetes, but refuses to accept that physical / biological mechanisms are worth anything to defend why masks might stop covid. 🤷‍♂️

Also someone won't accept a study using "associations" to demonstrate that certain fats might be bad for health because associations are inadequate evidence, but will use associations to claim that certain types of fats are "proven" (!) to not cause cardiovascular disease, where they suddenly do seem to be valid. 🤷‍♂️

But there's also a pattern in there. He's just finding alleged "experts" and forming an obsessional attachment to their ideas, be it Lustig for diet, Vinay Prasad for masks, Pierre Kory for ivermectin. All you need to do is find whichever crank he's latched onto and then you may as well just read the arguments from the horse's mouth and skip the incompetent defence on the forums.
Are you and Silvanus embarrassed that you just use ad-hominem attacks vs attacking the argument?

I'm still waiting on that evidence that says saturated fats cause inflammation that you won't post. Funny how you guys say all this stuff and actually have no evidence for it.

There are no mechanisms that prove masks stop airborne viruses. Again, you don't understand science. The claim was made over 50 years ago that saturated fats cause heart disease, there is no evidence proving that claim. I don't have to prove that claim wrong, the person/people that claim that have to prove it right. If I say I have the cure for cancer, am I right until you actually prove me wrong or isn't that I'm supposed to prove my claim?

Cochrane's analysis (it's a gold standard) showed there's no evidence for masks...

No interest in going down this rabbit hole.



Do you understand the difference between a direct cause and a risk factor?

The link you posted solely shows that (Junior) Sumo wrestlers tended to have lower blood glucose than non-athlete obese children. That's very clearly not evidence that Sumo wrestlers experience no higher risk of diabetes. My post directly attests to that higher incidence.

The rest is irrelevant waffle again.
Yeah, no interest of actually providing any evidence to your claims. You and Ag3ma are great for that. Fact is there was never any valid science proving saturated fats are bad. You just don't like that fact for some reason (I don't know why you'd want saturated fats to be bad for you, I'm guessing it's just because I say the opposite and I can't be right).

Yeah, I understand risk factors (and you completely ignored the UK diabetes source). Smoking increases several risks because it has direct causes to several diseases. Weight has no direct cause to diabetes and it's only a risk factor because people that are obese are using obese because of over-consumption of sugar, that's the actual risk factor. Would you say eating ice cream is a risk factor for shark attacks?

I didn't say the sumo wrestlers weren't getting diabetes more than an average person, I said they would be because they have a hard time changing their diets after their career is over.
 

Silvanus

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Yeah, no interest of actually providing any evidence to your claims. You and Ag3ma are great for that. Fact is there was never any valid science proving saturated fats are bad.
Fact is I didn't make any particular or controversial claims about saturated fats.

Yeah, I understand risk factors (and you completely ignored the UK diabetes source).
1. Diabetes UK didn't support what you're trying to argue;
2. Diabetes UK say that sugar doesn't directly lead to diabetes and that obesity is a bigger risk factor. You dismissed Diabetes UK as "rubbish" then.

Smoking increases several risks because it has direct causes to several diseases. Weight has no direct cause to diabetes and it's only a risk factor because people that are obese are using obese because of over-consumption of sugar, that's the actual risk factor. Would you say eating ice cream is a risk factor for shark attacks?
No, the causative link has been established. This is not mere correlation.

I didn't say the sumo wrestlers weren't getting diabetes more than an average person, I said they would be because they have a hard time changing their diets after their career is over.
You said "sumo wrestlers aren't getting diabetes". Now you're at the usual stage you eventually reach of trying to rewrite the record when your position falls apart.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Fact is I didn't make any particular or controversial claims about saturated fats.



1. Diabetes UK didn't support what you're trying to argue;
2. Diabetes UK say that sugar doesn't directly lead to diabetes and that obesity is a bigger risk factor. You dismissed Diabetes UK as "rubbish" then.



No, the causative link has been established. This is not mere correlation.



You said "sumo wrestlers aren't getting diabetes". Now you're at the usual stage you eventually reach of trying to rewrite the record when your position falls apart.
I thought you were talking about it from a previous post but I guess that was in reference to the other thing then.

It was an article about a study on the Diabetes UK site. The study showed:
Fat stored around the pancreas is far more important in determining the development of type 2 diabetes than overall body fat, according to new research.
The study, conducted at Newcastle University, indicates that less than half a teaspoon could be enough to cause – or reverse – the development of type 2 diabetes.
“We have shown that there is excess fat in the pancreas of people with type 2 diabetes, which is not present in people without diabetes,” said Roy Taylor, professor of medicine and metabolism at Newcastle University. “If this special pool of fat is removed then the pancreas can become able to make insulin normally, and sugar control returns to normal."


It's where the fat is, not that you have excess fat that is the risk factor. Same with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, that guess what... is also caused by excess sugar consumption. And now the main theory for Alzheimer's is that it's Type 3 Diabetes. Why are you trying to defend over consuming sugar when it's doing so much harm?

It is association.

I meant when they are actually wrestling... I'm not trying to rewrite anything, that's what I meant. They are obese but don't have metabolic signs of diabetes.
 

Silvanus

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It was an article about a study on the Diabetes UK site. The study showed:
Fat stored around the pancreas is far more important in determining the development of type 2 diabetes than overall body fat, according to new research.
The study, conducted at Newcastle University, indicates that less than half a teaspoon could be enough to cause – or reverse – the development of type 2 diabetes.
“We have shown that there is excess fat in the pancreas of people with type 2 diabetes, which is not present in people without diabetes,” said Roy Taylor, professor of medicine and metabolism at Newcastle University. “If this special pool of fat is removed then the pancreas can become able to make insulin normally, and sugar control returns to normal."


It's where the fat is, not that you have excess fat that is the risk factor.
Absolutely none of this contradicts the idea that obesity is a greater risk factor for diabetes. Your own source literally states it is.

Why are you trying to defend over consuming sugar when it's doing so much harm?
I'm not. Pointing out that one thing doesn't directly lead to another is not defending it. Stabbing people doesn't lead to their heads exploding, but that isn't a defence of stabbing people.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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So how about video game writers for a consultancy trying to get a person banned from steam for creating a curator that identifies what games said company consulted or worked on?



For those wondering this is the company that helped input on the writing for Forspoken & Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League among other titles.
 

Schadrach

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So how about video game writers for a consultancy trying to get a person banned from steam for creating a curator that identifies what games said company consulted or worked on?



For those wondering this is the company that helped input on the writing for Forspoken & Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League among other titles.
Aren't they also trying to get the curator pulled from Steam and ideally their Steam account outright banned? Which is fucking hilarious given the entire premise is that the curator just lists titles Sweet Baby Inc was involved with. They're calling correctly identifying works they'd consulted on a harassment campaign and likening it to BANNED TOPIC.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Part of me wants Donald Trump to win just because of this.
Lol @ people making rules for how to mod a game. It's your option to do what you want with the game.


Absolutely none of this contradicts the idea that obesity is a greater risk factor for diabetes. Your own source literally states it is.



I'm not. Pointing out that one thing doesn't directly lead to another is not defending it. Stabbing people doesn't lead to their heads exploding, but that isn't a defence of stabbing people.
Sumo wrestlers show you can be fat and not have metabolic health issues and Indians show you can be skinny and have said issues. Being overweight does not directly cause or increase your risk for diabetes alone.

It literally does... How do you think you get high blood sugar that leads to several diseases if you're not over-consuming sugar? It is literally the root cause.

So how about video game writers for a consultancy trying to get a person banned from steam for creating a curator that identifies what games said company consulted or worked on?



For those wondering this is the company that helped input on the writing for Forspoken & Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League among other titles.
These people love democracy until others don't agree with them.
 
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Silvanus

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Sumo wrestlers show you can be fat and not have metabolic health issues and Indians show you can be skinny and have said issues.
But it's been established that Sumo wrestlers *do* have a higher incidence of type 2 diabetes. They also suffer from higher rates of several other metabolic issues.

Being overweight does not directly cause or increase your risk for diabetes alone.
Say it with me: risk factors are not sole causes.

It literally does... How do you think you get high blood sugar that leads to several diseases if you're not over-consuming sugar? It is literally the root cause.
Once again, you've quoted a symptom to demonstrate the cause. Someone can have too much of something in their body without having eaten lots of it.

Apply the logic you're using here to any other excess substance in an atypical body. "How do you think you get high testosterone levels that lead to several adverse conditions if you're not overconsuming testosterone? It's literally the root cause!!"
 

Phoenixmgs

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But it's been established that Sumo wrestlers *do* have a higher incidence of type 2 diabetes. They also suffer from higher rates of several other metabolic issues.



Say it with me: risk factors are not sole causes.



Once again, you've quoted a symptom to demonstrate the cause. Someone can have too much of something in their body without having eaten lots of it.

Apply the logic you're using here to any other excess substance in an atypical body. "How do you think you get high testosterone levels that lead to several adverse conditions if you're not overconsuming testosterone? It's literally the root cause!!"
They don't when they are wrestling...

It has to be some kinda cause. It's just an association.

High blood sugar isn't a symptom. There are symptoms of high blood sugar though.

Symptoms of high blood sugar include:
  • Increased thirst.
  • Frequent urination (peeing).
  • Increased hunger.
  • Blurred vision.
  • Headaches.
  • Vaginal and skin infections.
  • Slow-healing cuts and sores.