Abandon4093 said:
Actually having two beliefs that contradict each other is hypocrisy.
Wiki said:
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.[1] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.[1]
Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches
And my reasons - regardless of what you think of them - are my reasons. The honest truth is I want factory farming and fur farming gone. I just don't take up arms to go on a crusade against factory farming because - as I've said numerous times - it's relevant to our society and no ones ready to make that change. The time will come in the future, but for now very little can be done. Trying to argue against factory farming in todays world is like trying to argue against the treatment of slaves and homosexuals back in the dark ages. It's not going to fucking work, and I'd prefer not making every single person that eats meat my enemy.
Arguing against fur farming whilst not arguing against meat farming is hypocrisy. If the general consensus in today's society is that meat is fine but fur is bad, then today's society is hypocritical.
Fur farming is in no way comparable to the treatment of slaves or homosexuals back in the dark ages. And you saying that is just more evidence of your demonising people for making a choice you don't agree with.
It's relevant to our society. And given that every single issue we have is based on societies standing on it, you should close your pie hole about my argument being dumb.
As per your previous argument. Back in the 30's burning crosses on black peoples front lawns and stringing up homosexuals was relevant to society. Guess you wouldn't have wanted to make every cross burner or gay basher your enemy though.
Societies standing on an issue is irrelevant.
Fur has become a minority, it's a vanishing trend.
So basically you're alright attacking something aslong as it's already vanishing anyway. But you won't make an argument for something that you believe in if it's not held in common belief?
Yea, I might change my accusation from hypocrite to coward.
And it's sickening that people like you are trying to keep wank it off and keep it up. Fur is dead, so let it die already. Quit contributing to the needless deaths of 30 billion animals. You are nothing less than those same people that tried to keep dog fighting and bear baiting around on the basis that 'Waaaaaaaaah, I can't to do whatever I please!'
/showing complete lack of understanding of what I've been saying.
Sorry, but someone's freedom of choice to continue a dead old idea shouldn't triumph over another animals life.
So the only difference between meat and fur is that meat isn't a 'dead old idea'?
Gocha...
Particularly if that old idea is obsolete. And yeah, I already know your response. But before you do, let me bring up that I'm pretty sure those people that supported other forms of animal cruelty way back when argued the exact same thing.
Argument ad nauseam much? Your basic stance is that if society says it's okaydokay you're fine with it. You're a coward who can't even stand up for their own beliefs if they're not pre approved by your peers.
'Hurpity dee duuuuuurp We kill cows all the time, so how is doing it to a bear for entertainment any worse? WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM TO DO WHATEVER I WANT!'
No idea what that's in response to and I've frankly gone past caring.
I know, I know. I'm really pushing that. But really, the argument that people should be free to do whatever they want - even when it's harmful and obsolete - doesn't' so much come across as a cry for freedom, but more or less as a spoiled brat whimpering something among the lines of 'Whatever, I do what I want!'
Oh right I see, so yea. It's fine for you to demonise people because they wear fur. Because if you don't agree with it, it must be evil. Oh towering pillar of unwavering moral correctness...
Incase you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.
There's no point in arguing with me the ethics of factory farming versus that of a fur farm. Because that's far, far away from where my mind is set on this issue. I'm the animal rights guy that's a vegetarian, so you're supposed idea of wisdom 'that animals in factory farms get hurt :'<' isn't beyond anything I've ever thought of before. No, what I think about is how a better change for the future can be made today. Whether I like it or not, society needs meat. And since you pissed me off, you're damn well going to get your ass up and grab your pair of glasses. Because hon', this is going to be a fairly long read.
Nice rhetoric... lovely empty rhetoric.
Society needs meat. People are unwilling to change their diet, and they're not going to. This isn't just a small minority of people, this is pretty much everyone in the world.
*Western world.* Plenty of countries have moved on to mainly soy or fungus based staples and even insects and other invertebrates in others. Still a living creature granted, but not meat.
Now while you're giving me bull shit that meat isn't any less necessary than fur maybe you should take just a moment to consider a few things about meat. First of all, you know how I never shut the fuck up about meat being relevant? Well, it fucking is. And to furthermore elaborate my point on this I'm going to do you a favor and inform you that the consumption of meat is promoted everywhere. It's in our food guides we give to our children, it's at our cafeterias, and it's on T.V. You hear that? EVERYWHERE. Now lets consider taste. Once someone tastes that crazy ass meat; it never takes them long to realize that their mouth can cum. And after that, that shit is hard to give up. Trust me, being a vegetarian blows balls. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if cows started slaughtering each other; if only for their flesh.
Not really sure what the point of that... whatever you wrote is. Meat tastes good, stop the fucking presses. Pretty sure fur feels good too.
A lot of people don't stick with meat because they hate animals and think 'Whatever, I do what I want!' but because it's legitimately hard to give up on. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would stop eating meat if there was an alternative to it. And I'm not talking about some bull shit alternative that tastes like shit either, I mean something else that can make their mouths cum.
As a meat eater and a fairly decent home cook. Meat isn't even my favourite food. There are plenty of mouth watering none meat based meals.
Sure I loved me some ribs or steak. But I could equally go for some fritters or some roasted sweet potato. Meat usually makes the basis for some of my favourite meals. Such as curries or stews. But make no mistake, the flavour and substance comes from the spices and vegetables used. You could quite easily substitute beef for quorn in the Jamacan brown stew I made last night and there wouldn't be all that much of a difference. Barring the small amount of juice from cooking the meat that runs into the sauce.
People need to eat. And while it's true that people can live their lives without eating meat, I'd argue that in spite of that it's a necessity.
Listen, I love meat. Love it to death I do. But I'm not stupid enough to think that I couldn't live with out it. I eat meat because I make a choice to use an animal for my own comfort.
Because to be honest, I'm almost certain people can't live without meat.
Bullshit, people don't want to live without it because it tastes nice. They could and probably will at some point have to live without meat as we know it.
That's how much it matters to a lot of people and that's just how relevant it is to our society. and with all this in mind, humanity simply isn't ready to move on from it.
No, they don't need to move on whilst the choice is still available. One day, it might not be. But right now it is and people are damnwell gonna use that choice. If all meat was to suddenly vanish and be replaced with adequate crops and meat substitutes. Humanity would be fine, if a bit pissed off.
Then we talk about fur. It's not everywhere, it's vanishing, and last time I checked, I've never met a single person that felt the urge to wear a fur coat that's equivalent to someones hunger for a damn burger. Fuck, meat is so addictive that people will even eat Mcdonalds. Meat and fur are two completely different things. And covering the ethics behind meat versus the ethics of fur farming isn't really looking at the issue with a lot of depth. Changing the problems with factory farming is going to take some time. It'll take better technology, newer foods, and better business practices.Oh, and meat is harder to give up on. Where as fur, you simply need to decide that there's no reason to kill 20 animals when you can just wear a faux coat instead. Delicious resolution. What I find especially stupid is how you use the suffering of animals (within factory farms) to furthermore justify bringing suffering to other animals.
Your basic argument is that fur isn't backed by most of society so it's okay to jump on the people that do wear fur because you won't be accosted by the rest of the human race. Doesn't change the fact that you're being a hypocrite, and so is anyone who backs the meat farming industry whilst simultaneously condemning the fur farming industry.
And with utmost sincerity, I hope your ass fell asleep reading this. But don't worry though, you can stand up and take a break if you wish. No one's going to hold that against you.
Oh please, I read longer and more indepth chunks of text on the bog.
Just because I don't believe in taking up a crusade against meat that means I don't believe in my principles, that I pretend to believe in them? No, I don't pretend anything. So you're still wrong I'm afraid. I believe in ending suffering wherever possible. You're just making assumptions on what I believe in. Which besides being obnoxious, is kind of my thing. So congratulations, you've got the same faults as me. It's not possible to end the suffering that goes on in factory farms.It's only possible to lessen the suffering, for now anyway. Stop trying to twist everything around to make me up as some coward. It's called being realistic. Factory farming is a part of our society just how fur once was. There'll come a time when it starts to die and selfish people like you try to keep it around by discrediting people that are against it as cowards, but that time isn't now. Right now I got to focus on selfish self entitled spoiled children that try to keep fur alive.
So I suppose I undermine my self a bit too. Because it's not really just being realistic, it's called prioritizing. By your logic you're saying anyone that believes in helping all humans but chooses to spend their time saving specifically Africans is a hypocrite and a coward. Or basically anyone that chooses to set priorities on what things they should focus on fixing. The fact that you have to try and distort what I believe in into me being a cowardice hypocrite just go to show how honest you really are, now doesn't it?
Now you remember that part where I said making assumptions is my thing? Well, now it's time for me to do that. Do you have a dog? Now, I'm going to take a guess that you do. If I'm wrong than don't be a dick about it, because me being wrong about this ONE specific thing isn't going to invalidate anything I've said. Well, if you have a dog - while eating meat and especially being for the fur industry - doesn't that make YOU a hypocrite? Expecting other dogs to be skinned - in cases alive - but having one speaks volumes on contradictions and hypocrisy on your part.
'Arguing against fur farming whilst not arguing against meat farming is hypocrisy. If the general consensus in today's society is that meat is fine but fur is bad, then today's society is hypocritical.'
You know what's also hypocritical? Human welfare workers Telling people to help unfortunate children, but only wasting their time helping those African orphans as opposed to children being physically abused! Or maybe your logic is fragile, that could be possible too. Between meat and fur I believe both are bad, but I choose to take up arms against only one. There's nothing wrong with that. And if you think there is, then you're inadvertently saying someone that looks out to help people with aids is a terrible hypocrite if they don't look out to help people with another issue that's fairly the same.
Be honest, you're nothing but a child with a lollipop, and you don't want it taken away. You'll cry, kicking and screaming, until you've got your way. You're kind of like me, except I'm on the side that's not killing animals needlessly. Now that you pissed me off by calling me a hypocritical coward I'll gladly be paying you back in full by being even more of a self righteous twit. But you can't really complain, at least you're not being paid back in violence.
'Arguing against fur farming whilst not arguing against meat farming is hypocrisy. If the general consensus in today's society is that meat is fine but fur is bad, then today's society is hypocritical. '
EVERYONE'S A HYPOCRITE BUT MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Jesus! and to think that I thought I was the conceited self righteous one here. Fuck, what a pleasant surprise. oh, and saying whilst doesn't make you smarter, I'm afraid. Don't believe everything you hear.
'Fur farming is in no way comparable to the treatment of slaves or homosexuals back in the dark ages. And you saying that is just more evidence of your demonising people for making a choice you don't agree with.'
Missed the point. No actually, you're helping my point. It was a pain in the ass for the government to acknowledge slaves as people, so why don't you take a moment to consider how much harder it would be to stop factory farming? Or hell, even gay marriage. These issues involve people, so maybe this should give you a clue how hard it is to ensure animals aren't being treated in a shitty way.
I demonize people because they literally can't grow up and they deserve to be so. Just take a moment to imagine how stupid you're going to look in the future when your grand kids here that these selfish, self entitled people wouldn't let fur die simply because it looked nice on them?
Meanwhile if I'm wrong, well, I'm an animal rights activist, so that certainly wouldn't be anything that's foreign to me. These people are children. And they'll just keep on with their ways until they eventually get the message to grow up. Telling them that they can do whatever they want because they're grown ups isn't doing the world any favors.
'As per your previous argument. Back in the 30's burning crosses on black peoples front lawns and stringing up homosexuals was relevant to society. Guess you wouldn't have wanted to make every cross burner or gay basher your enemy though.'
Exactly my point. That shit is clearly wrong, but you don't dare speak out of it. Meat is the same thing. It's wrong, but it's a part of our society, so there is little I can say to change that. You see, that's how society works and that's why I keep using my 'relevance' argument. The government doesn't give a fuck if something is right or wrong, they only care about saying what get them elected. Things will only ever change when people are ready for it. Fur is dying, so people are ready to end it. And this is furthermore why people who wear fur piss me off. They're just trying to resurrect a dead body.
Societies standing on an issue is completely relevant. It doesn't matter how many scientists say 'homosexuality is right and brings no harm!' If people are against it, nothing will change their minds. And this is very much so apparent with how long it took for gay people to acquire the privilege of not being arrested.
Right are wrong - irrelevent
Societies stance - completely relevant
'So basically you're alright attacking something as long as it's already vanishing anyway. But you won't make an argument for something that you believe in if it's not held in common belief?
Yea, I might change my accusation from hypocrite to coward.'
Move forward, not backwards, friends. Fur has lived past its use, by this point in time we should work our way towards better ethics.
'/showing complete lack of understanding of what I've been saying.'
Oh really? Because your lack of an explanation isn't too convincing. But all right, if you've got a shallow self entitled justification, then why don't you go ahead and share it.
'Argument ad nauseam much? Your basic stance is that if society says it's okaydokay you're fine with it. You're a coward who can't even stand up for their own beliefs if they're not pre approved by your peers. '
Funny that you never actually replied to my point but just went straight to calling me a coward. Please, if you've got anything else to say please go right ahead. I'm sure the Escapist would be interested in hearing it, hon'. No, my stance is if society is fine with it then I can't change it, so I shouldn't waste my time openly doing so. Telling someone straight to their face as their eating a burger 'that eating meat is evil!' isn't going to get them to change their mind. Just like how killing twenty animals and animal cruelty isn't going to give someone the clue that they might be bad people.
'No idea what that's in response to and I've frankly gone past caring.'
Sure, that's exactly why you continue to argue against me. Because you're gone past caring. That makes a ton of sense. You're gone past caring, I believe you, I really do, but why exactly are you still going on after that statement if you're gone past caring, exactly?
'Oh right I see, so yea. It's fine for you to demonise people because they wear fur. Because if you don't agree with it, it must be evil. Oh towering pillar of unwavering moral correctness.'
Still no actual refutation. I disagree with a ton of things, but I don't think they're evil. I demonise people that wear fur because they're a part of something that needs to just die already. The only thing they have defending them is their own selfish entitlement to do whatever they want, regardless of the suffering it brings and how outdated what they're doing is.
'Oh towering pillar of unwavering moral correctness.'
That's just my dick, actually.
'Not really sure what the point of that... whatever you wrote is. Meat tastes good, stop the fucking presses. Pretty sure fur feels good too.'
Try and not eat meat for a long, long time while not wearing well designed coat. Tell me which of the two is harder to give up.
'Your basic argument is that fur isn't backed by most of society so it's okay to jump on the people that do wear fur because you won't be accosted by the rest of the human race. Doesn't change the fact that you're being a hypocrite, and so is anyone who backs the meat farming industry whilst simultaneously condemning the fur farming industry.'
Teacher's talking, kid. Try listening in class. My point is that meat's a lot harder to give up than fur coats. Your want to eat meat greatly outweighs your want to wear a coat that slightly feels better. I bet the feeling of fur can easily be duplicated by things that don't kill 20 animals. And even than, I doubt there is a massive difference between how a substitute for fur would feel. Meat on the other hand; absolutely nothing can take it's place. Even if you don't like meat you cannot argue that only meat tastes like meat.
'Oh please, I read longer and more indepth chunks of text on the bog.'
Well, if you happen to live out in one that would certainly explain why you argue for fur. Don't let that worry you though, hon', I understand.