Gabe Newell Speaks On Recent VAC Controversy

[OneOfTheMichael's]

Gabe Newell Speaks On Recent VAC Controversy
"If 'Valve is evil - look they are tracking all of the websites you visit' is an idea that gets traction, then that is to the benefit of cheaters and cheat creators," says Newell.

Are you quoting a quote from newell quoting another person? Oh, wait I suppose I'm quoting you right now.... Quoteception.

OT: This is like a smaller version of the NSA that instead of protecting you from terrorists, it's from cheaters for video games, but with way more trustworthy people in charge. But since I don't play online much or care when people are cheating, I'll just go with the crowd on this one and trust good ol gaben.

 

[Therumancer]

As an adult and someone who has been quite frank about being fairly perverted, I don't really care if people know I've viewed porn. Nowadays it's pretty much a given anyway, the only difference is who admits it and who doesn't. I have more of a concern over how much DATA Valve could be collecting on my other web browsing, in terms of who I do business with, and the like. They already have Credit Card info from me so that's no huge thing there. I just don't like people collecting "marketing data" on me and then selling it second hand, and really when it comes to something like this all we really have from Gabe here is him saying this is all anti-cheat related and not general data mining.

It's also not a huge thing in my case, but the first thing that actually occurred to me is that if Valve was tracking people's activity and what sites they visit, they might be particularly interested in people visiting Torrent sites and the like, as I'm sure things like "Pirate's Bay" represent some of Gabe's "competition" for games and such. Of course at the same time if he gets all of his customers arrested for this it would be counter productive as well, so it's kind of out there as well.

That said, given what the internet is like nowadays, I'm probably under so much internet surveillance without knowing it, that it's not funny. It's not like I have any illusions about my computer being some kind of impenetrable fortress. If Gabe really gets his rocks off by seeing what's on my system, more power to him as long as he doesn't disturb me in the process, but I kind of doubt that's the case either.

At the end of the day the best way this can turn out is if Gabe is a little more forward about what kind of data he's collecting... and honestly it's nice he cares as much as he does about the cheating, if only some MMO companies put in half as much effort...

 

[Hammartroll]

At first I didn't care about this because total internet privacy is an illusion in the first place, and because I don't think Valve (or EA, or Ubisoft) actually care about my porn/personal info and assume minor "snooping" like this has some at least semi-valid reasoning behind it. But then I got to this

If 'Valve is evil - look they are tracking all of the websites you visit' is an idea that gets traction, then that is to the benefit of cheaters and cheat creators,

Remember kids, trust your government DRM providers implicitly or the filthy terrorists cheaters win!
Am I the only one who thinks this guy is a tosser?

Yeah, I got that slimy feel too when I read that. Don't ask questions or the terrorists win sort of thing. A concept I can't accept on principal. I'll have to see where this situation leads.

 

[Zakarath]

Eh... Doesn't google and tons of data-collecting/advertising corps ALREADY track these things? What's it matter if VAC does it too?

Breaking News: Unless you work hard at it, using the internet isn't actually very private.

 

[DrOswald]

The amount of "it's Valve, so it's different" in this thread disappoints me dearly.

Me too. Surely the point isn't whether or not you 'trust' Valve to not dick you over; the point is that they have a highly invasive program which only has a generic 'accept all or terminate service entirely' approach to privacy. Not to mention that he has a pissweak argument in the form of 'if you say publicly that you don't trust us, you'll make it easier for people to cheat!'

It is entirely if I trust Valve not to dick me over. This is the entire issue to me.

The amount of "it's Valve, so it's different" in this thread disappoints me dearly.

Me too. Surely the point isn't whether or not you 'trust' Valve to not dick you over; the point is that they have a highly invasive program which only has a generic 'accept all or terminate service entirely' approach to privacy. Not to mention that he has a pissweak argument in the form of 'if you say publicly that you don't trust us, you'll make it easier for people to cheat!'

Jesus christ it scans for specific behavior. Do you have any idea how many servers use that now? I seen server add ons detect hacks and log them for admins. Do you have any idea how many anti cheat programs do the same thing VAC does?

Anti cheat is not new, take it from a server admin. The only difference is that people now know about it because its mechanics had to be kept secret for it to work.

But in reality, VAC isn't special. We all knew what it did, its how it did it that throws hackers off.

What next, my anti virus is watching me fap because it scans my computer? I bet Norton, Mcafee, Avast, and everyone else must be getting their jollies off now.

And if you don't like it, don't play on a VAC server. You have a choice in the matter. VAC only bans those from a VAC server, which pretty much means only official servers. A server without VAC can't track you.

Jesus, the thread paranoia is reaching critical mass. I am amazed no one said the NSA and Obama is behind this yet.

So you're not in the slightest bit concerned that it has basically become de rigueur for everyday programs to scan your browsing history? And that the general response to it is 'trust us, we're not going to do anything naughty with it'?

It's funny you mention the NSA, because five years ago people would have laughed at you for thinking that the government was collecting all your personal data through major internet companies.

I am far more concerned with the fact that most people have the illusion of privacy on the internet. I knew this sort of thing went on and I made decisions accordingly. I am alarmed that other people are blindsided with privacy issues on the internet.

Plus, I am not going to fault cases, like this one, where they are up front about the possibility of information gathering and there are good reasons for it. In this case, they are trying to protect the integrity of highly competitive multiplayer games. Perfectly reasonable that they would require that people participating in this service agree to certain conditions that help protect the integrity of the service. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to not use the service if you don't want to deal with those conditions.

DRM, computer scans, always online and other such practices can be justified as a give and take contract between the user and the provider. Sometimes I feel the reasons are there, sometimes sufficient compensation is given, sometimes not. For example, the new Sim City completely failed to justify always online so I did not get it.

Another example: Steam is hard wired with DRM, as so many have loved to point out in past "valve sucks" threads. The difference for me is that they have given me more than sufficient reason to deal with this. I get far more out of using steam than I lose to their DRM.

Finally, when Valve says "trust us" I am inclined to do so - my relationship with Valve has always been a positive one. I always feel I get more than a fair deal with them and trust I have given them in the past has always been rewarded. On the other hand, When EA says "trust us" I am wary. What trust I have put there in the past is rarely rewarded. I occasionally get a fair deal, but as often as not I walk away feeling my money would have been far better spent somewhere else.

 

[viranimus]

"We try really hard to earn and keep your trust."

Products treated as subscriptions
Becoming functionally nothing more than DRM system.
Changing agreements retroactively to effect transactions already completed.
Demanding abdication of legal rights
Holding purchased content hostage demanding voluntary compliance
Selling higher than MSRP so "awesome sales" of 60-80% look better than they actually are
Escalating their industry choke hold by building their own OS
Escalating further by proliferating itself indirectly into hardware
Escalating their anti consumer model into non game software
Planning to push that same Anti consumer model into music, and video likely will not be far behind.
Passing the cost of those developments off onto the customers.
Opening up a system to effectively scoop up any and all potential games to protect its monopoly and discourage looking for other publishing, then expecting customers to do quality control for free.
Being restrictive in the way players play by restricting (only in context of single player) a players ability to cheat if they want.

And now they want you to be OK with snooping around what you do online when you are forced to utilize their client to play the products you purchased, so they can prevent cheating?... Because... uhh.. other people are making money?!?

Sorry there Gabe... If you are trying to keep trust, youve got a real funny way of showing it, because from where I sit all I can see is it getting harder and harder for that motivation of greed and self proliferation to hide and I think people are finally starting to catch on.