Gabe Newell Thinks Steam Can Help Mainstream Linux

zumbledum

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Nov 13, 2011
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we are all happy with our windows 7 and no one really wants to make the jump to linux.

thing is this state is temporary and gabe sees it. MS will force its OS like it always does, through Direct X. want to run your new top tier games with d13? sorry have to upgrade to win 8 as we are no longer going to support 7.

and at that point we will already be bent over grabbing our ankles.

why is it bad?

well its specualtion at the moment but the big fears are around it being a closed platform from what i can tell.

1. only place to buy apps will be the MS store they will tax and restrict at will
2. could theoretically force everyone back to IE/windows live
3. Devs could be forced into using games for windows live.
4. MS will be able to force the sale of licences on developers this is the margin destruction he talks about.

windows monopoly on the PC market has never been a good thing, the way win 8 is being built is allowing MS a lot more control of how it gets used and youcan be sure the only people to benifit from that will be MS.

I hope valve can use thier power and they are in a position to make some strong allies to help
google must have a massive vested interest in seeing an open OS prosper(its possible youtube, i tunes and a whole host of services could be forced out and replaced by MS owned ones)

so i cross my fingers and hope that valve can do this, us having a viable choice in OS's can only be a good thing.
 

PingoBlack

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Aug 6, 2011
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Techno Squidgy said:
Evil Smurf said:
Also I am less likely to get a virus.
I love this line. Every time I hear it I get this urge to write a virus targeting OS X and OS X alone, but then I remember I don't know enough to write a functioning virus that could get past security systems, and I can't be bothered to teach myself either.
Well, don't worry, others did so already. :)

Biggest issue with OS X that people often don't realize is that in their case, Open Source is a problem. They are generally running a FreeBSD UNIX kernel, but since Apple do not update the kernel as fast as they should, they often leave known and well documented exploits available to attackers.

Another example of this is the PSN security breach. They were causght out using old Linux based Apache web servers, again due to the fact they didn't patch them. So they had known exploits available to anyone with a bit of time on their hands.

Open Source can be a blessing for security, but also a curse.
 

Kargathia

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Greg Tito said:
I don't know if Newell is right about Windows 8 and how its concentration on a touch interface will suck or not. But I do know he's right about games influencing customers. The mere mention of Valve making games work on Linux made me consider installing it on my machine. Maybe gaming can make Linux mainstream.
Last I heard the touch interface was not the problem. It appears phone versions of Windows 8 are already walled off Apple-style, with users only able to download content through the Windows Store.

If Microsoft seriously considers expanding that policy to include the PC OS, then that'd be the unmitigated disaster Newell was talking about.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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Linux has video driver issues. Thats a pretty big deal for AAA games. And the audio stuff is also fragmented but it isn't too awful to pack in an audio driver to use if the "system" driver isn't doing what you want.

But yeah this would be totally awesome. I have already gotten rid of Windows on my desktop computers, with native Steam on Linux I could get rid of it on my laptop as well, and relegate Windows to virtual machines.

For anyone who is gunshy about Linux please check out Mint: http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php It is really simple to try out from the cd if you want to play with it, and trivial to install alongside an existing OS.

I'm a Linux newb but I've set it up many times and have gotten pretty much everything I want working. If anyone needs help and isn't sure what to google for feel free to PM me.
 

surg3n

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It won't work out. Steam doesn't even have many games for the Mac, so why would anyone jump into Linux for the sake of a handful of games.

Sorry, but it's just another example of an OK idea being exagerated, leading to hipster trends like using Linux to make yourself appear smart. The escapist need more realists - people who wonder why the Linux stalwarts insist on insisting on Linux, as if it's even a serious option for an OS. I'd rather not remember the days of MS Dos, all that rigmarole was a necessity - Linux is not a necessity, it will never be widely utilised by gamers, never ever ever ever - and Steam will not change that substantially, in fact, the Humble Bundle does more for Mac and Linux game distribution than Steam will.

Personally, I'd rather see Steam target Android, for the sake of the budget tablets and PC's, and media players and homebrew projects... and that Ouya console thing as well. Surely there are more people ready to support Android gaming, than Linux gaming!.
 

MetalMonkey74

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If Steam gets games to run well on Linux, i'll be one of the first to switch. Its the only thing holding me back.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Problem, Newell: Video card drivers for Linux SUCK!
If they even exist..

So if Mr. Private Company Can do What He Wants doesn't beg NVIDIA and AMD to constantly put lots of cash in new, stable driver updates for their cards on Linux there won't be too much Linux gaming going on, I'm afraid.
And what about audio and gamepad drivers?
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Only if you buy DX license and make it support win98-win7 games. Then sell them off steam that would work and I could easily play MechWarrior 2 titanium edition.
 

N3squ1ck

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I don't know about anyone else in this thread, but I never really run into bad problems with linux, that I didn't create myself, since I am a really big nooby, but yet I am using Linuxdistributions as second OSs since ubuntu 6.06 (currently Linux Mint 13 with the Cinnamon Desktop) and I will happily whipe windows from my hdd alltogether if that works out.


The biggest problem I see with Linux, after the trope of "it's too complicated" (which it isn't since several years, just try it out before you complain),is that the companies see a low userbase for Linux, so they don't really care about making good drivers and the consumer sees driver issues and fears that his system might fail.

Let's all just hope that steam gets linux gaming over the critical mass, so that AMD and nvidia finally get the importance and create drivers that are actually worth two shits, Intel can do it already, afterall.
 

ace_of_something

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That's all very plausible and interesting but every time I see a recent picture of Gabe Newell I become more and more suspicious that he's slowly turning into a Matryoshka Doll.
 

uncanny474

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tomvw said:
I don't see it taking of unless someone implements DirectX on Linux.
You mean like Wine?

OT: As for games on Linux...


Assuming that there's a decent selection, and it's not just Valve's own games, that would be enough to get me to switch back to Linux.
 

FrostyCoolSlug

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Jun 7, 2005
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Linux advocate and realist here, yea.. This isn't going to have the impact Gabe wants it too, I'll give him some credit for having the balls to take a shot at it though.

Technical support for Linux is practically impossible, and it's caused by the most important part of Linux distributions, the freedom to choose.

Imagine you're a technical support assistant receiving a support request the first thing you have to ascertain is what DM they are running.. It could be: Unity, Gnome 3, Gnome 2 / MATE, KDE, Cinnamon, XFCE, the list goes on, and there's the consideration that the user may not KNOW what DM they're using! Each one has certain control panel settings in different places. The other solution is tell them to open a console and hope they can follow your instructions.

Once you've finally determined what DM they're using, maybe you'll need to know what graphics card they have (again, the user may not know this), and what driver they're using.. Do they have slow FPS? Are they using proprietary drivers or the open source ones? Could their issue be with dual monitors (which X really doesn't support well, in fact, X is just antiquated crap in general), how should the user get this information to you? You may also need to find out what audio stack they're using (as mentioned in this thread earlier, there are a few of them).

There's also the shift in the desktop paradigm when moving from Windows to a Linux based distribution, something doesn't exist which looks and behaves as windows does, if you know where everything is under windows, you may need to re-learn your OS under linux (admittedly, something which may be required for Windows 8 anyway), but this is what makes development and working with Windows easy.. Everyone is using the same thing which behaves in the same way for everything.

Unlike a lot of tech-savvy people who have the time and patients to learn and research, 95% of the world expect to be able to sit down in front of a computer and have it just work exactly how they expect it too, and how they were taught to use it, if it doesn't, they'll call tech support. They don't *LIKE* choice due to fear that if they make the wrong one they can't go back and they don't like change because they have to invest time into something they've known how to do for years. They don't care HOW their computer works, they just care that it works. It sounds harsh, but that's how these things work.

The solution for this which the Valve team are putting in place is that they'll support Ubuntu, which means they're not supporting Linux, they're supporting a Linux based Operating System, which are two very different things, running Mint, SuSE, Fedora et al. may result in no support being provided for you.

Would I like more people to use linux? Oh god yes, but do I want to be the one supporting them? Hell no. Before we even look at the technical problems of gaming under linux, the fact the entire DirectX stack (Audio + Input + Graphics + etc, remember, DirectX isn't just the graphics, it's a massive bundle of utilities wrapped into one tidy package) has no Linux alternative which is as easy to use, the problems with X11, the problems with the audio stack, the problems with proprietary drivers, we have to simply look at the people. Why would someone consider switching to Linux simply because Windows 8 is bad, when their alternative choice is to sit by and use Windows 7 instead?

Developing for Linux will satiate those who already use linux, and probably have valve games working fine under Wine, but this will do nothing to encourage new users over.

[EDIT]Not to mention that at most games for Linux will get about the same amount of support as that of Macs, there's no way they're going to get many AAA publishers on board, and the game count is going to remain low[/EDIT]
 

lisalover1

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saintdane05 said:
Problem:

While Steam is available for Linux, how many GAMES on Steam are on Linux?

I have a similar problem with my Mac, where I look at a game on Steam that may be interesting, but then it shows that its Window's only.
Well, it was just announced that Serious Sam 3 will probably be a launch title for Steam on Linux, which is good news. Valve will obviously be porting all their latest titles like TF2, Portal, etc. Also, it is rumored that, based on the wording of the interview, [When he said "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well."], that Valve will be making some sort of Wine-esque Windows emulator for games without native support. This is a little more unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility.
 

Plazmatic

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0p3rati0n said:
Plazmatic said:
Why are you talking about Mac and Linux like they are one and the same... snip.
If I'm not mistaken, both Mac OSX and Linux are unix based. To my knowledge Mac OSX is just a "beefed" up version of linux? just closed off and such. I could be wrong though.
You are correct, but that isn't the point, he kept plugging in mac as if it was linux and then praised it, which normally wouldn't be a problem, but the fact that he did under the guise that no one would notice and that this was certainly not the place for it.
 

Plazmatic

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TheSniperFan said:
Plazmatic said:
Why are you talking about Mac and Linux like they are one and the same, they aren't, basic Linux is not user friendly, even real Linux users will admit that. We aren't stupid, stop trying to plug in your pro Mac bile, and actually contribute to the thread, you hardly have the right to call your self an elitist for using an inferior platform, not because of the user friendly-ness or the pretty colors, but because of the platforms unwarranted price. Oh and you know why Mac's don't get as many viruses? Its because barely any one uses them. And if that changed, it would be incredibly easy to exploit the system.
Could you either:
a) leave this thread and let people discuss who actually know what they're talking about.
or:
b) stop flaming offensive crap and get your facts right before posting.

Some tips:
1. So because you say that it's not user-friendly, it really isn't? Who are you to tell him (and me) if it's user-friendly or not?
2. What are real Linux users for you? People who compile it themselves? Of course that's complicated. *facepalm*
3. You tell him to actually contribute to the thread, while not doing so yourself.
4. Yeah we get it. Macs are overpriced. That's right.
5. Macs profit from their low market share in that case. You're right there too. It's known that Windows has a better security than OSX. That's due to Microsoft having that problem with malware. Certain Linux distributions have even better security than both of them. Linux/OSX malware-rates will explode if one of them becomes "mainstream".

This here is for the majority of people in this thread:
Linux is NO Operating System!
It's a KERNEL!

A kernel has no such thing as "user-friendlyness".

@[user]Plazmatic[/user]:
Now tell me:
What's a basic Linux for you? I'm curious...
I love when people completely miss read what you say :)


a) He obviously didn't know what he was talking about, he said linux was user friendly, and you your self kindly state it wasn't, you can see by the context he used it in conjunction with Macs he obviously was trying to plug in Mac praise for no reason.
b) what exactly did I get incorrect?

Some tips:
1. Windows and Mac are both more user friendly than just using Linux, this is not a subjective opinion, this is objective fact. The only time in which this would not have been true is if you had been using linux, and ONLY linux all your life, in which case it still technically wouldn't be more user friendly because, again, approximately 99 percent of desktop users use Macs or PCs
2. you totally missed the point on this one, I was saying the he specifically wasn't a real linux user because of the obvious ways he tried to plug in mac crap.
3. I contributed by getting rid of his usless mac praise, which worked as you can clearly see.
4. only said it once, don't understand the tired tone here.
5. so far you've only been proving my point and telling me why I'm right, this is fairly confusing, though I guess since you completely miss-interpreted my post it makes sense.
 

Andrew_C

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TheSniperFan said:
This here is for the majority of people in this thread:
Linux is NO Operating System!
It's a KERNEL!
The only people who care about that are you and Richard Stallman.

As you well know, when people say "Linux" they are referring to the to the whole Linux/GNU/Xorg/whatever Window Manager you prefer stack. Moaning about technicalities is pointless and drives people away from Linux because it makes them think Linux users are a bunch of neckbeards with nothing better to do then argue about trivialities.

If you want to make your point, don't rant, just say something like:
"Remember, Linux is just a kernel. By itself it is useless. You need the GNU userspace tools and XOrg to make it into a usable operating system."
 

Atmos Duality

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When the head of one of the most influential businesses in PC gaming is afraid of what the next Windows will bring, you know that's when shit got real.

More worrying, the launch of Windows 8 will be the first without that antitrust suit hanging over Microsoft's head. (Congress brought the suit against Microsoft in 1998, and won).

From what I've heard via the rumor mill Microsoft is going back to integrating Internet Explorer directly into the Shell of Windows 8, and Newell would almost certainly know about this by now (if his company didn't have any Beta environment testing or demos by now, I'd be stunned).

Besides that, I'm curious as to what would spook Newell into so openly stepping on Microsoft's toes like this.
Love him or hate him (or Steam), Windows is essentially his core platform.