Game of Thrones Final Season Discussion Thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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Silvanus said:
But in the series, the fall of Castles has been devalued colossally. Highgarden was conquered by the Lannisters off-screen for goodness' sake; Dragonstone wasn't even guarded at all when Daenerys turned up!
Oh, and the entirety of Dorne. Remember Dorne? The show doesn't seem to. Then again, it's not like any of the other Kingdoms got much acknowledgment in the first S8 episode, except King's Landing, which isn't actually part of any kingdom. Makes it look like the Seven Kingdoms vs The White Walkers is just The North & Daenarys + all the leftover characters vs The White Walkers.
Gethsemani said:
Mr. Btongue wrote a bunch of articles for Shamus Young back in 2017 where he pointed out that the Red Wedding worked so well as a shock episode because it did precisely the opposite.
Yes, read those articles too. If the Red Wedding had happened with the current writing, there would probably be a scene right after of Jaime or some other Lannister representative meeting Roose Bolton and Walder Frey and dropping a big bag of gold in their hands, and a conversation that boils down to:

Lannister: Wow, you sure killed our enemies for us good! Here, money, titles and hookers for everyone!
Frey: Yes, but I broke the fuck out of guest rights, a sacred tenet of the continent.
Lannister: Yeah, but you're getting handsomely rewarded for it, innit? And you'll get our support ... until we betray you.
Bolton: Did you like how we played the Lannister song, the Rains of Castamere, during the massacring?
Lannister: Loved it! Boom, you're Warden of the North now, just like that! We cool then?
Frey/Bolton: Ey!

Or even better, have it take place, with some minor alterations, BEFORE the wedding.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Yeah, like I expected, it wasn't that great. The show is but a shadow of its former self. All sense of logistics, scale, geography, grand strategy and even multilayered characters has been pretty much rooted out of the show in favor of hurrying the plot along, flanderizing the characters into archetypes of themselves and obvious good guy vs bad guy antics.

It kind of boggles my mind how they've stuck with Euron's characterization, despite the response having been as loud and clear as a nuclear detonation. He's the lamest character on the show bar none. I would have given a standing ovation if his character had been changed completely between seasons.

Yara's rescue was just whatever. I'd actually completely forgotten where Theon even was, he's become that irrelevant to the story.

At least it's good to know the fucking budget was used for an utterly pointless flight sequence that served no purpose (yet at least).

But considering how season 6 was entertainingly stupid and 7 was laughably stupid, my hopes weren't exactly sky high to begin with. I'm watching the show more out of obligation than anything else, and the show seems to agree. Though I have to say that the theme song is still fucking fantastic after all these years, and hearing it again genuinely made watching the first episode feel like an event.
 

Hawki

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Samtemdo8 said:
Lion King 2 Simba's Pride? Whose gonna be Not-Kovu?
Someone that's got reason to hate Dany/Jon? Or their houses?

No shortage of candidates.

Silvanus said:
Dragonstone wasn't even guarded at all when Daenerys turned up!
Were you expecting it to be?

House Baratheon's gone (Gendry aside). Whoever's running things in the Stormlands (if anyone), there's no reason to move into Dragonstone at this point, not without potentially losing some of your own territory in the process.

Marik2 said:
Is anyone going to make bets on game of thrones? Theres sites and places for that.
Guys and girls at work have a betting pool - bet who's going to be alive by the end of the series. Whoever survives, the pool gets divided up accordingly.
 

Agema

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Samtemdo8 said:
Like I feel like the series has changed after the Red Wedding happened. For lack of a better word, the show became more....self-aware of its success.
I think it started to weaken the more it diverged from the books.

Mostly, I just think the guys running the TV show don't have the same grip on the narrative as George R.R. Martin does. They did a good job of cutting out extraneous characters and plot (in some cases substituting with easier alternatives) whilst following the books, but when really forced to set out on their own, started to struggle more.

I think expediency began to set in more as well: they increasingly started to add stuff in response to audience commentary, and tricks to speed up stuff getting done. For instance, it seems to me that crossing huge distances, such as by sea between Westeros and Meereen or overland King's Landing to Winterfell, start seeming like day trips rather than the months they should be.
 

Silvanus

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Hawki said:
Were you expecting it to be?

House Baratheon's gone (Gendry aside). Whoever's running things in the Stormlands (if anyone), there's no reason to move into Dragonstone at this point, not without potentially losing some of your own territory in the process.
Yes, it would be guarded-- it would be absurd in the books for one of the greatest defensive Castles in Westeros to be entirely unguarded, even after the main garrison moves on.

In the books, Stannis leaves a force to hold it when he moves north, and it takes a major siege for the Lannisters and Tyrells to take it, costing them greatly.
 

Nickolai77

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I agree with the general sentiment that the show peaked round about the time of the Red Wedding, and that out running the book probably has a lot to do with it. However, the show is still good- the acting and production values are great and the writing is still pretty decent. Basically it's gone from being amazing to just good.

What I would say is that I'm honestly glad this is the last series. Even as someone who enjoys GoT, I find the hype surrounding it overwhelming and hate having to play the game of avoiding spoilers online if you don't immediately choose to watch the show as soon as it comes out. It's been a very memorable and entertaining TV series, but I'm glad it's coming to an end. Hopefully it will leave space for other interesting fantasy genre tv shows.
 

Agema

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Chimpzy said:
Not the introduction of cartoon characters like Euron and the Sand Snakes.
I can't help but feel the narrative elevation of the Sand Snakes in the TV series was an oh-so-lazy attempt to bolster the supply of feisty combat women because they thought some of the audience wanted it.
 

tippy2k2

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Now that we have our character development out of the way and basically what is likely going to be nothing but balls to the walls fighting/action from here on out, I have determined what I think the ending will be...

Danny is going to win The Iron Throne. HOWEVER, before that happens, she is going to betray Jon. Whether this is a passive aggressive betrayal (she could save him but chooses not to) or literal betrayal (she puts the knife into his back personally or someone does it on her orders), Jon is going to die because of Danny. This might happen at Winterfell with the zeds or it might happen later once the final confrontation with Cersei goes down but it will happen before all is said and done.

If HBO is playing the really long con with this, The North will know and they will continue the series as a spin-off later when House Targaryen becomes the new Lannisters and either The Starks or maybe just "The North" will be her enemy. If they are not playing the long con with this, Danny will take the throne and unite The Seven Kingdoms in honor of Jon the martyr.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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tippy2k2 said:
Now that we have our character development out of the way and basically what is likely going to be nothing but balls to the walls fighting/action from here on out, I have determined what I think the ending will be...

Danny is going to win The Iron Throne. HOWEVER, before that happens, she is going to betray Jon. Whether this is a passive aggressive betrayal (she could save him but chooses not to) or literal betrayal (she puts the knife into his back personally or someone does it on her orders), Jon is going to die because of Danny. This might happen at Winterfell with the zeds or it might happen later once the final confrontation with Cersei goes down but it will happen before all is said and done.

If HBO is playing the really long con with this, The North will know and they will continue the series as a spin-off later when House Targaryen becomes the new Lannisters and either The Starks or maybe just "The North" will be her enemy. If they are not playing the long con with this, Danny will take the throne and unite The Seven Kingdoms in honor of Jon the martyr.
I am calling the latter and that Dany is gonna be pregnant with Jon's child so the betrayal will not make sense if she does become pregnant.
 

Agema

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tippy2k2 said:
Danny is going to win The Iron Throne.
Probably. Cersei had three prophesies: to have three children and her husband twenty (which was true), that her three children would die before her (also true), and the last that she would be replaced by a younger and more beautiful queen who would take all she held dear. Assuming the last holds, the only realistic alternatives are Sansa and Daenerys.

The possible get-out clause might be if Margaery Tyrell counts as the younger, more beautiful queen - after all she supplanted Cersei in Tommen's affections and power in Kings Landing, ultimately costing Cersei the loss of her last child and indirectly the last loyalty of her beloved brother Jaime. After all, the prophecy never said she couldn't recover power and kill the other woman after she was replaced and lost everything she loved. Ironically, of course, Cersei's prophecies have arguably been self-fulfilling - Cersei's own steps (or mis-steps) have played a large part in making them come true.

I suppose this is one of the things I find a little odd about the series also. Cersei is incompetent. She's crafty in her way, but a bad leader under whose rule everything starts slipping away. She fails to keep Joffrey in check and causes civil war, appoints useless cronies, alienates people whose support she needs, makes serious misjudgements (like the little sparrows), etc. A repeated feature is that people who really know their stuff, like Littlefinger, Tywin Lannister and so on constantly belittle her ability to rule. Tywin sends Tyrion to stop her messing things up, then ends up having to run things himself. Littlefinger exults at how badly she's doing, believing he'll be able to make hay from it. Varyn murders Kevan Lannister (in the books) because he wants Cersei to carry on ruling badly so the Lannisters will be easy to replace. I feel that the TV series, however, wants her as a cartoon villain antagonist, and I feel it's fiddling implausible things to keep her as a significant force when she should be queen of little more of Westeros than she can see from the highest tower of the capital.
 

Hawki

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Samtemdo8 said:
I knew Arya since she was a little girl Game of Thrones....why would you do this...
Do what? Fuck Gendry?

Good for her honestly.

Samtemdo8 said:
I am calling the latter and that Dany is gonna be pregnant with Jon's child so the betrayal will not make sense if she does become pregnant.
Or she kills him/lets him die, and finds out much later?

Also, from what I understand (like all seasons, it's a case of me spoiling myself while waiting for the DVD), Varys has hinted that Jon's on borrowed time. Like, if he carks it after the White Walkers are defeated, I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, side note - anyone else getting B5 season 4 flashbacks? I understand that's a bit niche, but if the White Walker threat is going to be wrapped up in the next episode, that leaves the rest of the season to deal with Cersei. Kind of like how the Shadow War is wrapped up early in B5 season 4, and we spend the rest of the season fighting to reclaim Earth from a dictatorship.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Hawki said:
Samtemdo8 said:
I knew Arya since she was a little girl Game of Thrones....why would you do this...
Do what? Fuck Gendry?

Good for her honestly.

Samtemdo8 said:
I am calling the latter and that Dany is gonna be pregnant with Jon's child so the betrayal will not make sense if she does become pregnant.
Or she kills him/lets him die, and finds out much later?

Also, from what I understand (like all seasons, it's a case of me spoiling myself while waiting for the DVD), Varys has hinted that Jon's on borrowed time. Like, if he carks it after the White Walkers are defeated, I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, side note - anyone else getting B5 season 4 flashbacks? I understand that's a bit niche, but if the White Walker threat is going to be wrapped up in the next episode, that leaves the rest of the season to deal with Cersei. Kind of like how the Shadow War is wrapped up early in B5 season 4, and we spend the rest of the season fighting to reclaim Earth from a dictatorship.
Yeah Gendry is a good boy but....is this the feeling fathers get when they see their daughters grow up and actually do it with their boyfriends?

And totally calling that Gendry will die and become a Zombie in the battle.
 

Hawki

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Samtemdo8 said:
Yeah Gendry is a good boy but....is this the feeling fathers get when they see their daughters grow up and actually do it with their boyfriends?
No idea.

But if we're talking about fathers, well, Robert talked with Ned in season 1 through joining House Baratheon and Stark, so...guess his wish came true?

And totally calling that Gendry will die and become a Zombie in the battle.
I'll take that bet - my money's on him surviving.
 

Darmani

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If anyone from the fireplace scene survives I will be very very surprised. Simply put their not necessary anymore or would make everything too easy in the aftermath. Brienne's Ark is pretty much done tormund's a joke, Jamie is done, tyrion mores, Davis is the only dad figure left and the kids are grown up. Did anyone expect pod to survive?
Sam is dead. Ser friendzone maybe survive to kill someone of jealousy later. Sansa will live. Area is now preggers with Hendry's kid so ducking immortal.
Gendry is a maybe

It's possible that we will have cameos of previous dead people thanks to all rise in the Krypt
 

Saelune

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I am expecting a mostly traditional semi-happy ending, atleast overall. Sure a bunch of people will be bummed cause x will die but they live.

Jon and Daenerys will either rule together, or maybe get rid of the monarchy or something, Cersei will die. I think Jaime will die, but die specifically a hero's death saving someone important or doing something important. I actually think he might die saving Bran as a sort of 'full circle' situation.

A lot of people think Brienne will die, but I bet she will live.

I don't think were going full 7 Samurai here. A lot more people are going to live than people are giving credit, though most of them will likely lose someone that makes victory a bit less so.

Oh and Tyrion will live as 'The Last Lannister' and that will bother him.

I do think there will be 1 death that 'shouldn't happen' but will happen just to 'surprise' everyone.