Game of Thrones: Sandor's guilt

[CrazyCajun777]

Okay fellows this is a bit of speculation but I am curious to hear from you fine folks.

This assumes that you have at least watched all the current episodes of season 3 and ideally have read all of book 3. However, if you have not read all of book 3 don't worry I won't spoil it.

I do not think that Sandor killed Mycah. I am sure that others have already used their powers of deduction to come to this belief or to rule it out, but the thought is new to me so here we go.

Let's look at simply what we know.
1.) We know that Sandor has never openly claimed to have killed Mykah. He has suggested the hell out of it, but look closely and notice he never openly states it. When Ned sees Mykah thrown over stranger (Sandy's horse's name for you TV folks out there) Ned asks him about it, and Sandor says, "He ran, but not very fast." When Arya accuses of him, she says, "You slung him over your horse like was some deer." Sandor replies, "Aye, he was a bleeder." When asked about it by Dondarrion he replies, "I was Jeoffrey's sworn shield the boy attacked the prince." Repeatedly, Sandor has worded his replies in such a way that narrowly dodges the issue of who killed Mykah.

Spoiler

I feel that his claim to have killed Mykah at the end of book 3 was a lie to get Arya to put him out of his misery. This is the only time in the books that he has flat out stated to have killed the boy, and there is a clear gain he is seeking.

2.) Nobody present at Mykah's death has come forward to claim that Sandor killed Mykah. Everyone seems happy just to assume it is so. Notice how not once does someone come by and say, "Man, it was crazy to watch the hound ride down that kid." Not a single person has claimed to have seen the Sand Man kill Mykah.

3.) He wins the duel. Sure, on the one hand Sandor is one bad mother *shut your mouth* I'm just talkin' bout Sandor *then we can dig it* However, it is clearly visible that the red god holds power. He seems to be why the red priestess gives birth to smoke assassins. He seems to grant Thoris the power to bring the lightning lord back from the dead. Yet, this god that holds power over death couldn't keep dondarrion's sword in one piece? I mean, Dondarrion had the beast... I mean the hound... he is definitely not the beast and sansa is definitely not the beauty... on the ropes and Sandor pulls a miracle out of nowhere, breaking the flaming sword. Coincidence?

4.) Sandor is a true knight who protects the innocent and the weak. Yes, I am still talking about the hound. The sworn protector of Jeoffery, king of all things unpleasant, and servant to the Lanisters, trust fund kids all living off of their father's fortune, the man who once said, "No, it gives me joy to kill people. Killing's the sweetest thing there is." Well, it would appear that this dog is not as rabid as he would tell you. Let's list a few. Okay, I think everyone remember's him saving the little bird from the angry mob about to rape the poor girl, this one is self explanatory so I'll just move on. How about at the tourney of the hand where he saves Sir LT from the mountain that rides? Well it could be argued that he was just trying to kill his brother. However, the book emphasizes that Sandor never takes a cut at Gregor and only fights defensively. Then, when King Bobby B orders a halt to the fight Sandor instantly drops to one knee as his brother's blade narrowly misses his head. Does this sound like he is out for blood? Okay, time for the less obvious. When Sansa is being shown Ned's head on a spike she begins to look real hard at Jeoffry who is standing dangerously close to the ledge. In the book we are told, and in the show it is suggested that she wants to push him over the edge. This would most certainly lead to her execution. Then what happens? Sandor jumps in and wipes the blood from her lip. Was this a coincidence or is the hound a bit of guardian angel? Let's look at the tournament celebrating Jeoffry's name day. Well, Jeoffry decides to kill a drunken knight by drowning him in wine (i guess there are worse ways to go). Then, Sansa steps up and tells him to stop. Jeoffry does not like this, but Sansa is not as dumb as viewers like to think so she makes up the idea that to kill him would be bad luck. Jeoffry dismisses what she says as nonsense and goes back to his fun. Oh but wait! Something stops him. Sandor all nonchalant confirms Sansa's lie, in the book it is her point of view, and she admits to having made it up on the spot. Then (that's right I ain't done) it is established in the books that every member of the king's guard, even the honorable sir oakheart, has beaten her on Jeoffry's command. Every member except for the Sand Man! Then (1...maybe 2 more and I'm done) when sansa is being beaten by a member of the king's guard and stripped, in the books, the hound actually shouts, "That's enough!" a little before the Imp Hand comes in and stops the event. Also, in the show right as Sansa's garb is ripped (she is suppose to be topless but she is like twelve so it is just kind of suggested that this is the case) what happens? The camera instantly cuts to sandy who looks away ever so slightly (what a gentlman). Then in both the book and the show when the little lion man demands that someone get Sansa some thing to cover herself it is Sandy who steps forward to wrap his cloak about her. Does this sound like a man who would ride down an defensless boy?

Spoiler

In the 3rd book he later saves Arya at the twins.

Anyway, for these reason's I happen to doubt the idea that Sandor is Mykah's true killer. What do you guys think?

 

[DJjaffacake]

Spoiler: General spoiler tags because I'm too lazy to spoiler the individual book bits

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, because some of this is quite solid and plausible, but the stuff about how he protects people is a bit thin. Other than that one time with Loras (he could have been doing that just to spite Gregor), and that other time with Arya he was only ever defending Sansa, who he later nearly raped, so he's not exactly been a knight in shining armour towards her. It's possible that he's not as nasty as he likes to act, sure, and he may not have killed Mycah, but I wouldn't overstate it.

 

[Kyrian007]

I'll devil's advocate a little further. Just to see what your theory is, if Sandor didn't kill Mycah... who did? There isn't much question some kid is dead. I suppose he could have tripped and broken his neck running away, but then what did Sandor do? Find the corpse and stab it a few times and then bring it back to take credit. Or is Mycah still alive... and Sandor killed some other kid? Neither of those really make him honorable to any real extent. Its an interesting theory, but I never really questioned that he had done it. Still don't really. And don't hold it against him. When a dog kills someone at its owner's command... which is to blame. And I doubt he'd avoid doing it because of some kind of personal "honor." Because he didn't care about honor. He did as his master asked whether or not he was comfortable doing it.

 

[Amaror]

Spoiler: General spoiler tags because I'm too lazy to spoiler the individual book bits

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, because some of this is quite solid and plausible, but the stuff about how he protects people is a bit thin. Other than that one time with Loras (he could have been doing that just to spite Gregor), and that other time with Arya he was only ever defending Sansa, who he later nearly raped, so he's not exactly been a knight in shining armour towards her. It's possible that he's not as nasty as he likes to act, sure, and he may not have killed Mycah, but I wouldn't overstate it.

Yeah, there only two times he saves someone else except sansa, but there is no time, where you see him do something bad, or see him refuse to do something good. And the time were he wants to get sansa out of the city, he is REALLY drunk. Not that that would be a good excuse, if he had done anything bad, but he only nearly did something bad. So you basically have to plus and no minus for him, which makes him pretty good in my eyes.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Ah alternate character interpretations, gota love em. Another question to consider then; if he didn't kill him, why, at his trial when Arya accuses him of it, doesn't he refute it outright? He has nothing to gain by being vague at this point, so why not just say, "I didn't kill him, x did," or whatever? I mean he was pretty open about it being Joffreys orders to do the deed, so he clearly wanted to prove his innocence, or at least shift the blame.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

If we're going to book talk, I'm fairly sure he straight up tells her he did it.

Spoiler

Possibly when she's leaving him to die at the end of book 3? It's been a while.

But even past that, there's no reason to think he didn't. He models himself on a Hound because they're obedient and loyal, regardless of the chivalric and moral codes he considers bullshit. Riding down some kid because his master told him to is 100% Sandor at that point in the story.

It's strongly implied that trials by combat in Westeros are bullshit just like in real life. R'hllor's followers might have power, but as far as we can see it's just magic by another name and the God himself is as absent as all the others (remember that Thoros only got his powers after the dragons were born, just the same as the non-religious brands of magic). If it was R'hllor's will sparing the Hound, it's more likely down to him having a role to play in the future than his innocence or guilt, since R'hllor doesn't seem to give much of a crap about his own followers burning children and innocents alive.

 

[Daveman]

I'd point to the Maegi as another example of proven magic, so the idea that R'hllor is full blown godly rather than just magicky stuff is questionable so I'd see his trial-by-combat as just another example of trial-by-combat being fucking stupid.

Also he can have killed the boy and yet all that you said remained true. He could be sparing him a worse fate. He is accused of attacking the prince regent and as far as he knows when he goes out he believes this true. Mycah would've been FUCKED UP for what he supposedly did. Better a quick death.

 

[Artemis923]

I do not think that Sandor killed Mycah. What do you guys think?

I don't think the boar killed Robert Baratheon. -_-

The Hound cut the little shit in half without a second thought because that's who he is. He isn't a "knight" or a good person. And that's what makes him a good character.

 

[shad0whunter]

It's strongly implied that trials by combat in Westeros are bullshit just like in real life. R'hllor's followers might have power, but as far as we can see it's just magic by another name and the God himself is as absent as all the others (remember that Thoros only got his powers after the dragons were born, just the same as the non-religious brands of magic). If it was R'hllor's will sparing the Hound, it's more likely down to him having a role to play in the future than his innocence or guilt, since R'hllor doesn't seem to give much of a crap about his own followers burning children and innocents alive.

R'hllor may not be a very moral god, but he could have intervened specially for cases like this, where he is asked to provide justice. No doubt the Hound's having a future role to play had something to do with it, as we've seen that R'hllor is actively acting to secure a future.

As for Sandor's character, I think he just likes to think of himself as a bad guy, and is a bit disgusted to find that he has some morals/feelings after all. Or maybe he's unwillingly bumped up a notch on the moral hierarchy due to everyone else being such a**holes. Either way, he seems to only be a protector of very specific instances of innocent/weak (I don't consider Arya to be very innocent).

Ah alternate character interpretations, gota love em.

Seconded.

 

[Darrius721]

I do not think that Sandor killed Mycah. What do you guys think?

I don't think the boar killed Robert Baratheon. -_-

Yeah, if we starting going down that road, then you can't REALLY prove that Illyn Payne killed Eddard Stark. You have to take these for what they are. It's bad daytime soap operas that train you to expect awful plot twists to keep the show alive. News flash, Game of Thrones has a bit of source text to work with, that you can trust in Martin's word.

Plain truth, regardless of how much we want to love the Hound, he's not a good person. He may help Sansa and Arya when the opportunity presents itself, but the Hound is mean, honorless, and will will a plain-old butcher's boy anyday of the week and Joffrey wouldn't even have to ask him to.

 

[Epitome]

He denied it was murder, Sandor didn't deny killing Mycah. The books and shows make it pretty explicit that Sandor loves his killing, he reminds me a lot of the bounty hunter who attacked Serenity in firefly.

When faced with a trial by combat he states his innocence of killing Mycah is because he was the princes sworn shield and the boy attacked the price. For which the punishment is death, so he was lawfully running Mycah down on the princes words and therefore innocent. The crime is Joffreys not Sandors.

He claims also to have "put women in the ground" himself when he's trading words with Bronn before the battle of the Blackwater. So clearly killing those weaker than himself isn't really a problem for him, and he didn't try and kill Gregor during the tourney because of the fear of the curse of kinslaying. That's a huge part of what drives Sandor is his secret wish to kill his older brother, but fear of what would happen if he did.

There are "far" more interesting theories to postulate about in Game of Thrones, including later ones about Sandor I won't spoil. But it's pretty clear he rode down Mycah on Jofferys orders.